packsaddle

Local1400, I'll try to give you a less obscure answer. The bad joke that started this thread offended one or more members. Then, predictably, there was discussion about political correctness and prejudice. And to illustrate their point some noted that WASP males were taking a backseat to certain other groups. OGE, in particular, mentioned the prominence of women's interests over men's with regard to breast cancer and prostate cancer. Whether this is actually true or not was not addressed, but I responded with my opinion that the alleged discrepancy was reasonable in my view. LongHaul then weighed in with his view and OGE (who moonlights in another life as a Championship Wrestler under the nickname, "The Instigator" ) just darts in once in a while with some more fuel. At least this is my fractured version of it. Not as poetic as Gump's Feather but perhaps a little easier to understand.

OGE, you sound like my wife! I resent your comparison of men to flies. LongHaul, Your assertion of less interest in old men than in young women is certainly true for me but that may not have anything whatsoever to do with cancer. Anyway I noticed on the web site you gave that, "It was projected that in 2006, there would be 564,830 cancer deaths overall, including 162,460 deaths from lung cancer; 55,170 from cancers of the colon/rectum; 40,970 from female breast cancer; and 27,350 from prostate cancer." If the 2006 projection from your website was correct, then there were far more deaths from BC than for PC. Another website worth examination is this one: http://cancercontrolplanet.cancer.gov/atlas/index1.jsp?ac=1 It gives the cumulative mortality for various diseases over a longer period, ending unfortunately in 1994. But the raw numbers reflect the projection for 2006 in your website. From 1970-1994, there were over 927,000 deaths from BC and nearly 623,000 deaths from PC. From 1990-1994, there were a little more than 281,000 deaths from BC and a little more than 168,000 from PC. I don't argue the rates per 100,000 that you list but the total numbers support the conclusion that more deaths occur from BC than for PC.

I've seen a few episodes. It IS entertaining but often impractical or else situations unlikely to be encountered by any normal person. I agree with some of the other comments, my hat's off to the camera crew.

Research? Did I hear the word 'research'? As long as we're engaged in an academic quest, consider the perspective of this snippet regarding the industrial revolution in England at which time the life expectancy of workers was less than 20 years: "People (including small children) worked 14 to 16 hours a day, in horrible, dangerous conditions for wages that were not enough to buy food. Life expectancy for all of England was 40, for the laborers it was no more than 18. Fifty-seven percent died before the age of five." This is from a book, 'Rebels Against the Future', by Kirkpatrick Sale.

I agree with Beavah. You are embarking on a 'reeducation' process. Chances are, if your district is like mine, the advancement chair is unlikely to be helpful anyway. In our immediate vicinity there are several other troops that have been around for a long time. Every one of them has some troop-imposed time limit, down to 6 months for one of them. When this unit took on its new life a few years ago, with a new SM and everything else, I took the opportunity (WITH THE HELP OF MANY PERSONS ON THIS FORUM) to make sure the SM realized what the official regs are and not the local options. It worked and we actually picked up a few older scouts who had become discouraged in those other troops. Good Luck.

LongHaul, Thanks for the clarification. BTW, one reason for the difference between breast cancer and prostate cancer is that breast cancer is a far greater killer and often kills much earlier in life. I think the difference in emphasis is justified.

It's the same as back when I was a boy and was frustrated trying to start the lawn mower...my father would just nod knowingly and say, "You're not holding your mouth right." You know I hate to admit it, but at first I actually took him seriously.

OGE, you reminded me that a few years ago I had some serious surgery and for some reason, I was put in a women's hospital section (specialized equipment or something....the hospital, not me). But they treated me really well. Almost like a celebrity, I was surrounded by women, patients, nurses, visitors. It was..ahem...stimulating, and I recovered way too quickly (thinking back wistfully). It kind of reminded me of a famous lion, Frazier, you might remember him. And the life cycle of the salmon, which I think is the epitomy of a life quest...spawn 'til you die. Better yet, I somehow gained a greater sense of color coordination and fashion. Go figure.

Hi, the Yorktown has a separate place for scouts to stay. But in July, unless they've installed AC, it is going to be very hot and humid. I mean it could be like a dry heave and if someone does blow chunks, the hot metal is going to make the smell just wonderful. Don't feed them pizza just before boarding, cheeze drooling out their noses when they throw up is just sooooo gross. Last time I was there with a group was in April, not too bad. The ship is an aircraft carrier. It is big enough to house a small city. You will not feel motion of any kind. If it is open to tour, there used to be a WWII submarine next to the Yorktown. It is a great place to test for claustrophobia. OK, here's another little tidbit from brutal experience...if the guys are allowed free time, they really CAN get lost on this thing and you can spend significant time finding them. And during the day but especially after dark, impress on them the really, REALLY important rule - NO RUNNING. Here's what could happen: one of the boys could, say, run full speed into a vertical pipe or column in the dark. The impact could, say, knock his front teeth out. You could suddenly be confronted, say, with a screaming child with tons of blood belching out of his mouth. You could spend, say, the next few minutes getting him stabilized and sending the other boys to FIND THOSE TEETH out there on the deck somewhere in the dark...the boys muttering things like 'gross' and 'awesome!'. Then you could spend, say, the rest of the night calling the parents and then in the emergency room while doctors vainly try to reinsert those teeth. And then you can face the remainder of the trip with no sleep whatsoever. I tell you, it doesn't get much better than that. Be sure you get a group picture on the gangway BEFORE you board while everyone's smile still has all their teeth. But you won't have to worry about pitching or rolling. Have a great trip. P.S. forget that folk wisdom about putting the teeth in milk to preserve them...doesn't work. Edited part: Thanks Gonzo for reminding me of the other two ships. I guess the Yorktown is just so awesome that I forgot about them. There used to be another ship as well, the Savannah, a nuclear-powered commercial vessel...part of Eisenhower's Atoms for Peace program. But it was moved to Baltimore I think, maybe Norfolk. I toured it a long time ago and it was a snoozer anyway.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

I consulted with our network and web gurus and they just offered vague speculations like it was a function of the web browser. But I think I have figured it out...split personality, you know, like the "Two Faces of Ed". Or maybe an evil twin existing only as an extra frontal lobe or something. "...double your pleasure, double your fun with double-good, double-good, doublemint gum."

LongHaul, "Im not ready to vote for a Black man to be president, not because of the color of his skin but because of his political platform." Could you clarify this statement? On the surface it seems that you identify the political platform on the basis of skin color. If correct, any opposition based on political platform essentially is the same as opposition based on skin color. Did you really intend to say that?

The problem I see with these schemes is that it is as if after application of terms to complex concepts, the complexity is thereby explained. It isn't. In some ways it does additional disservice to us by allowing us to feel comfortable when we really have no reason to. Kohlberg's stages amounts to a hypothesis to explain certain aspects of our behavior. It is being tested right here in this thread. A null hypothesis would state that we do not all conform to the stages as stated. I think it is safe to say that there is insufficient evidence at this time to reject the null and accept Kohlberg. But it does give us something to think about.

Yep, I have to agree but it's not far from some nice places. Heh, heh, I noticed after I sent that message that the things I seem to like about the coastal plain are mostly swamps. I guess it IS a warped view of things compared to most people, oh well.

Quite right and I apologize. My observation mostly applies to the NC/SC coastal plains and then mostly SC. I have spent many pleasant days on Sapelo Island, in and around the Altamaha River, and, of course, the Okefenokee Swamp. I stand corrected. Ahem, of course there is that matter of speed traps in Ludowici, etc.

I was in Manhattan at the American Museum of Natural History most of the time, spent a little time in the crowds around Virgin Records and the Charmin toilets (strictly business, of course ), and a few assorted eateries. I love Manhattan. Sorry I couldn't get them to you in time, oh well.

Eamonn, you read that? He just called you 'elderly', tee hee. OGE, you could have quoted Carroll: In a Wonderland they lie, Dreaming as the days go by, Dreaming as the summers die; Ever drifting down the stream-- Lingering in the golden gleam-- Life, what is it but a dream? OR The Crew Cuts: Oh, life could be a dream (sh-boom) If I could take you up in paradise up above (sh-boom) If you would tell me I'm the only one that you love Life could be a dream, sweetheart (Hello, hello again, sh-boom and hopin' we'll meet again) Oh, life could be a dream (sh-boom) If only all my precious plans would come true (sh-boom) If you would let me spend my whole life lovin' you Life could be a dream, sweetheart AND THAT, I think after all, was the true meaning of the blue pill... or Orbison: Its too bad that all these things, can only happen in my dreams Only in dreams in beautiful dreams.

OGE, you do remember what Johnny Fever said about paranoia, don't you? Happy New Year to everyone!

Welcome to the forums! Gonzo1, I think, has listed some good alternatives. There is one thing I would change though. If your guys have been on the White or Buffalo rivers already, they'll yawn at Helen, GA. Plus it's a little out of the way. Let's see...between Atlanta and Mount Pleasant... There's the Congaree Swamp: http://www.nps.gov/cosw/ In July it will be just delightful, LOL. You better pack insect repellant and sunscreen. But also while you're in Mount Pleasant, be sure you take a tour through Charleston and soak up some history. Of all the 13 colonies, prior to the Civil War, the largest Jewish population in the country was in Charleston. Charleston was also the intellectual capital of the country, true also for most other cultural resources. Take a look at the slave market and don't be fooled by the candy stores...understand how evil can undo a society. Also, the coastal plain of the Carolinas and GA has to be (outside of the State of Mississippi or, perhaps, Darfur) the most depressing place there is. Pay attention and soak it up. Be thankful you don't live there. Back west, between Pontotoc and Atlanta you'll probably be on I-20 and then around the big town on the belt. You'll have your choice of Six Flags and Whitewater Atlanta (don't swallow). http://www.sixflags.com/parks/whitewater/ or you can check out Stone Mountain and see the really, really, big stone carving (unlike that pipsqueak in SD). AND there is reputed to be the aquarium to end all aquaria in Atlanta. Well worth the stop if you have the time. This would be MY choice: http://www.georgiaaquarium.org/ I can't say much for MS or AL, they were put there by God to stop up a global drain or something. On your trip back to Pigeon Forge, a dalliance in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park would be nice. In fact, forget that wretched tourist trap, Pigeon Forge, and go natural. If you want a good strenuous stroll, take the hike up the Alum Cave Bluff trail, past the bluff up to the top of Mt. LeConte and then back down. That is a good day trip...my wife and I did it a while back. Another possibility is to beat your way to the top of the Chimneys...ask at the ranger station for directions, they'll know. In July the mountains will be crawling (literally, traffic-wise) with people, the worst of whom will have FL license plates. They'll be dangerously unaccustomed to mountain curves and they'll hold everyone hostage to their glacial progress. You'll need to conjure up your patience on the highways. Here's another option: Don't go to Pigeon Forge. Go back through Atlanta and then take I-75 toward Chattanooga. Then, just on the other side of Chattanooga stop for some wild caving at Raccoon Mountain: http://www.wildcave.com/ You'll be glad you did. In July you can do the cave and burn some serious calories. They have a campground there with showers. You'll need the showers to rinse off all the mud. Then take a swim in the Tennessee River, maybe at the park near Nickajack Dam (but be prepared to pick leeches off everyone). If the boys are grossed out by leeches (and who, besides me, isn't?) then just give them a lecture on something worse, the Candiru fish: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candir%C3%BA Now THAT is gross. Fascinating...but GROSS! They'll forget all about the leeches. You can tell them later that these things don't exist in North America, no need to ruin the suspense. (But you never know, what with global climate change and all...) You may have to speak to a parent or two later. Then proceed on to Nashville to continue your trip back home. Have a nice day!

Hey Gonzo1, I guess that means he has actually only posted 24 unique messages (as of this moment), LOL. But don't lean too hard on him. This happens to many of us on rare occasions (I've accidentally done it maybe twice). And for some reason, it happens fairly consistently for certain forum members (I have no explanation but I bet Terry does). The moderators could have addressed this a while back though, maybe your concern should be aimed at them instead. Anyway I suspect epalmer has no control over it, or else doesn't know how to fix the problem. (I don't know how to fix it either). Moderators, Terry, HELP!

I always liked and admired Ford but wasn't aware of his Eagle status until after he left office. He was a truly honest man and an all-round good guy. He lived a full, honorable life. It would be good to see another like him come along some day. I miss him.

Hi, REI in Atlanta is the best bet. Alternatively you can see what's available at Bass Pro Shops. Personally, I would go to REI and not even consider the options elsewhere. Good boots that fit well are worth the price and you won't be well-served by going cheap unless you get lucky. I have Vasque, Raichle, and Asolo. All fit well and wear well. I've had the Vasque since 1971 and many hundreds of miles. There's no substitute for trying them on and getting the fit right. Take a look at the REI website for pointers on boot choice and breaking them in, etc. Then go have fun!

Games of skill where the requisite skill is knot-tying. These could either competitive (knot-tying relays for example) in which the winning teams actually get a prize or they could be challenges such as completing a quest (that requires knot-tying) for a prize. After they know a little bit, there are other challenges such as learning how to tie a bowline with one hand, etc. Not all of them are going to warm up to knots the same way but once a few 'get it' the others will tend to follow.

The new (solar) year is beginning...hoooray! Happy solstice to all.

Great flic by the way, Cypher: I know what you're thinking, 'cause right now I'm thinking the same thing. Actually, I've been thinking it ever since I got here: Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill? As I remember, the blue pill allowed the person to return to their illusion and escape the harsh reality. I'm uncertain of the comparison you are trying to make. Or am I wrong?

I fear, now, that none of the climbers on Mt. Hood have survived and that the mission is now more one of recovery. My heart goes out to those three families. Gern, Thanks! Shackleton! Sorry, that's who I meant when I wrote 'Shackleford'. To me there is almost no part of that story that is NOT remarkable. After being stranded on the Antarctic ice without a ship, they navigated in open boats to Elephant Island and, knowing there would be no chance of rescue there, Shackleton and another member then navigated 800 miles to South Georgia Island with only rudimentary navigation tools. And THEN they walked across the icy mountainous spine of that island to a whaling outpost. It is one of the most amazing stories I've ever read. However, anyone who would like to experience some additional treats over the holiday might take a look at: 'Mountains of the Moon', on videotape, the story of the search for the source of the Nile by Spekes and Burton. This one will rip your face off as well. For those of us looking for a good book to read over the holiday there is, "Shipwrecked on the top of the world: Four against the Arctic" by David Roberts. This is another really good one to keep you feeling cold in front of the fire place. Anyone with a daughter should also consider, "Two in the far north" by Margaret Murie, a wonderful true story of a woman who truly lived the wilderness life in Alaska...one of my favorites of all time. Another book, "Resolute: The Epic Search for the Northwest Passage and John Franklin, and the Discovery of the Queen's Ghost Ship", by Martin Sandler is also good and there are many other books related to this tale. As John Ciardi often said, "Good words to you!" And Merry Christmas to all.