packsaddle

As I read the new wording, summer camp only applies if scouts camp in tents. Nice. I am glad to see this changed. As for "scouting activity", anyone know what caused them to tighten this part? A good campout is a good campout regardless of who leads or approves it. I am not clear as to why this is worded in this manner.

Folks, I am in sympathy with the tendency to be cautious when it comes to diet. So I am also sympathetic to those who shun aluminum where it is practical. I also note, nevertheless, that aluminum is impossible to avoid in the diet. It is the most abundant metal in the earth's crust (the part where we live) and it is part of clays and many minerals everywhere. If you look at the box of salt (and, for that matter, many other foodstuffs) you will see aluminosilicates as one of the ingredients...so it will pour when it rains. The dust we breathe contains aluminum compounds, so do the vegetables we eat. It is unavoidable. So while I note that aluminum foil will often corrode where it is in contact with the sliced turkey (and I will reject that meat), I also recognize that I consume aluminum in less visible forms from all sorts of sources. I just hope that if and when I become as confused and vacant as Ronald Reagan, that some good friend will do me a favor and stick an ice pick in my ear. Hopefully, not an aluminum one. Bon appetite!

OK, this forum has been quiet for a while. And I don't know much about football, but I like the Bears. I hope they devour the Colts (about whom I also know little or nothing). Anyone else pulling for a favorite out there?

Welcome to the forums, Suzanne. I too have had a few close calls, working on the water. The 30 minute rule is close to optimum. I have been working on the water several times in the summer when storms were building all around. When you hear buzzing and see tiny sparks flying off the radio antenna of the big hulking aluminum work boat you're on, one only has a few seconds to act or become ground zero. So far, I've survived...probably longer than I deserve. But to help with the work I purchased detectors for the field crews. Here is a web site that has products that are worth considering. There are other similar devices: http://www.ambientweather.com/handheldlt.html They are not cheap and they still leave decision up to the individuals but these and similar devices provide much better information than 'rules of thumb'. Edited Part: Here's another that is a little more reasonable for a personal budget: http://www.gemplers.com/pestmgmt/weathermonitoring/alarmsystems/G79950.html(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

I would also like to say, Welcome to the forums! I wish it was under better circumstances. When I was involved with cubs, I had a couple of these (my wife claims the whole den was like this, LOL). But one was so notorious that merely knowing he was involved in the pack caused families to change packs. WOW! He didn't last more than a few months and everyone breathed a sigh of relief (every time I hear of a local crime I listen carefully to the names of suspects). The other cub was out of control but in a benign way, he really did not intend to hurt anyone's feelings or offend anyone and I think he was simply needy. What he needed was exactly what MollieDuke described. That was excellent advice. But that part about the older brother - I'd like to know more about that. I am not sure the older brother should have been allowed to 'tag along' in the first place. And I would like to know more about that particular aspect of the problem. The cub may be greatly influenced by an older sibling who sets the wrong example.

That would be LaaaaayyyyZeeeeee. I quite agree. Don't forget that rather large stone carving on the big rock (Mt. Rushmore is a mole hill in comparison). Also, if you are lucky enough to hike up that thing during a thunderstorm you may get some wonderful close-up views of lightning strikes - it'll make you feel like dancin'.

You're writing, of course, about Ellijay, right? Nah, just kidding, Helen, GA is a nice little town but as long as you're doing the tourist thing, might as well stop by the cabbage patch and see where those famous dolls are 'born'.

She's fine, volunteers at an animal shelter so she was bitten a few days back. This isn't the first time so it was only the rabies booster shot this time (but expensive...$400, Wow!). I still can't figure how she manages to get her hind foot right up behind her ear. As I understand it, you are correct about the MB - someone correct us if this is wrong. You can do it in a day. Wolf Laurel's program is tailored to give exactly the necessary instruction. I'm really glad everyone had a good time. Maybe I'll take another crack at it this weekend.

Hey, I'm so glad the guys had a good time. I knew they would, and hopefully they have a merit badge as well. I would have joined you but I spent Saturday morning at the hospital getting rabies shots for my daughter. I asked how they felt, she said, "Ruff!" Now for the collar and tag!

We ran into a problem, one year, that no one had expected. At the 'tune up' sessions, we noticed that a large number of the blocks had slots for the axles that weren't perpendicular to the direction of travel. There was no remedy for this but to recut the slots on the 'top' or to drill new holes. What a mess! Our pack would buy the kits for all the cubs so the field was leveled a bit, but some parents bought three more kits before they got one that had the slots cut accurately! The next year, the pack bought extra kits so the boys could use them as replacements or spare parts. One hint about speed...one year a single mom whose love for her son was very obvious, came to me almost in tears. Her son had made his own car, very obviously. It looked the part, especially compared with the competitors. Then she brought her son to the 'tune ups' and some other parents sort of took him under their 'wings', so-to-speak. But his car had a terrible problem. For some reason the wheels wouldn't sit 'flat' on the track. Only three would make contact. I was the first to notice this so I took the mom aside and told her, "..don't do anything about that.." The cubs and quite a few dads were astonished to see this rather plain-looking block of wood leave their carefully-engineered cars behind on the track. I'm guessing it had, perhaps, 20-25% less friction, missing that wheel against the track. I just laughed. The mom was beaming and her son, well, he just wanted to have fun, it wasn't a big deal to him anyway. Same for most of the other boys. It is often the parents, just like in baseball, who take this stuff way too seriously. Therefore regarding conflicts: As 'Weigh In' judge at the district level, I had to explain many times that just because the Post Office scale showed 5 ounces two weeks ago doesn't mean the wood didn't absorb moisture since that time, putting it over weight. The conflicts I saw usually were resolved with a quick trim of some wood off the bottom to reduce the weight...or a very disturbed parent, unhappy with a disqualification because of all the silicone lube that drenched the car, or some other unresolvable infraction. In these cases, it is a good thing to have a judge (me, in these cases) who is completely and objectively detached, with no connection to the boys or cars that are racing. I was also pretty sure I could outrun most of them.

Isn't there a BSA form, now, where we have to supply our SSN as well? A few years back, the state of SC (Department of Motor Vehicles, I think) actually sold all of the identity information to some kind of business-related agency for the purposes of advertising or something like that. The adult in question from the original post may have a bad memory from that event. Moreoever, there have been quite a few instances where other state offices have 'lost' or otherwise released similar personal information. It is possible that similar things have happened in other states as well. Claims or good intentions of confidentiality just tend to fall flat these days. And, I could be wrong but, given the abysmal record-keeping by BSA, it is not a stretch to imagine anything on official BSA forms eventually becoming available to anyone who wants it. If the guy IS legally licensed, then the absence of his license number from some form is not relevant. Sometimes a 'bean-counter' exercise is just that.

Way back when I was cubmaster, one of the things we did to make this more fun was to invite all the boys and families to a series of 'tune up' sessions. All the dads (and a mom or two) brought their tools and the basic car kits in whatever state of assembly they were in. At the 'tune up' meetings (really a series of evenings over a couple of weeks prior to the derby), all the boys got to compare designs. The dads and moms talked about tools and methods. AND, importantly, everyone was able to learn about the 'official' rules included with the kits. In our pack, the pack supplied the kits to all the boys so everyone had the same basic starting point. The 'tune ups' helped level the field with regard to tools, etc. At the last tune up, I brought a calibrated balance for the official 'weigh in'. Later, at the district level, I did the 'weigh in' as well. My balance was reviled because many of the cars didn't meet the weight restriction. AND I was absolute about the qualifications. Some dads went to their machine shops and manufactured perfect, polished axles and did similar things to the inside of the wheels. One guy actually hid all this inside 'fender skirts' so I couldn't inspect the vehicle. Liquid lubricants were not allowed. I disqualified a few cars from the official competition but we allowed them to race unofficially. Amazingly, the car with the hidden stuff beat everything else hands down. Did the boy build it? I can't say for sure. Did it use the same wheels and axles as everyone else? I can't say for sure. Was it illegally lubricated? No way to tell. So it finished first...unofficially. The dad was really angry. The boy, for some reason, just hung back quietly, almost as if he was uninterested. We also had a design competition. There were a surprisingly large number of boys who didn't much care about speed. They wanted to win the best design...and they had some good ones, too. Our pack handed out real trophies for the first three places in each age bracket and medals for everyone else. I also printed really nice certificates for everyone. I can send you my design template if you're interested. I have said this many times in these forums: I really miss the cubs.

Beav, Personally, my preference is for my 'Little Mermaid' pillow and sheets for summer camp. The guys, for some reason, have no inclination to steal (or even touch) my pillow...afraid of cooties or something, I guess. But she's my choice over SpongeBob. She's prettier, softer, and I have much better dreams.....mmmmmmm.

I know a young woman who spent nine weeks of winter without any breaks in the trip, and in sub-freezing temperatures (sometimes sub-zero) and 5-foot snow drifts in a remote area of Utah - armed with only a sleeping bag, a pad, WalMart boots, NEOS, and a blue plastic tarp. No cooking utensils, no tent, no matches (fire by friction only), and backpacking 5-8 miles to a new camp every day. Their water froze every night so they just positioned it near the fire and drank the melt. She was with a small group of similar young women and it was one of the best experiences of her life - it certainly changed her life. So...heat in the tent? No way.

The damage is real and there are real costs associated with both the direct damage and the efforts to control or limit the damage. The precise dollar amount can be argued but it will be a big number regardless. At the same time, there is reasonable certainty as to who did the deed and under whose responsibility. I suspect that the boys and the parents are not going to be on the hook for this one. Probably not the CO, if what I've read is correct. Here's the thing. A large part of those costs have already been paid by taxpayers who absolutely were NOT responsible for the damage. And (Merlyn, where are you?) in this taxpayer's mind the responsible parties had better be taken to task for this to repay the taxpayers. The boys have probably already learned far more about fire safety than they ever imagined...probably everyone else involved as well. Punishment is unlikely to improve on that lesson, nor regrow the forest any faster. In my mind what's left is for the ones with the deep pockets to start shucking out the coins. It would be really nice if they'd also do the right thing, admit responsibility and apologize but it's not a requirement.

The best way out of this is for BSA, internally, to decide where the money is going to come from and then pay the 12 million. No argument. That will curry some favor, perhaps, with the land managers (taking responsibility, addressing the problem, paying the damages). THEN the situation becomes an opportunity, merely a question of what pristine area to move the camp to next...I mean, who wants to camp in 14,000 acres of charred stumps?

I plead guilty. That description describes some of my duties. But the term, 'Eagle scout coordinator' is less of a title than it is the way the SM delegated the duties. For this unit, when a scout attains Life, I begin to examine the records to make sure everything is in order. I act as a resource if the scout has questions or needs some advice. I help identify the district and council resources available to the scout and I make sure he knows the requirements, no more, no less. One aspect of it, also, is to try to make sure that every Life Scout on the way to Eagle has an equal opportunity. If the scout has a problem with any part of the process, and if it can be addressed within the unit, I help him address the problem. There's nothing formal about it but these delegated duties make things a little easier for the SM and the boys seem to like the arrangement. The SM still signs paperwork and has SM conferences, etc. I just make sure everything is ready and on time. Edited part: Oh yeah, I wear the 'mentor' pin - that's as far as formality goes.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

John, yes I agree. I am familiar with the wording and that is the reason I asked. Eagle1984 mentioned that letters are required and I suspect his unit is not the only one. When I first joined scouting as an adult leader, the 'letter required' thing was a local tradition (although not actually required by the council, go figure). I was just curious to know the origin of 'required letters' elsewhere...whether they are a local tradition or whether other councils really do have different requirements.

Just curious, for those of you who think letters are required, who is the authority that requires them? Who asks for the letters? Is it the council or is it someone else?

I agree with Beavah. But our council seems not to be interested in contacting the references, at least no contacts in the years of my experience. But we try to follow the requirements to the 'letter'.

Again, I agree with Gern regarding the prohibition aspect. Even if that law passed, I don't see how it could be enforced effectively and it probably would be overturned in court. A non-starter, I think. A prohibition of camping in groups larger than some limit might fly, however, as would regulations regarding adult supervision and following safety procedures...oops, my bad, we already have those don't we? But the liability aspect is interesting. Instead of fighting with the government in the legal arena, perhaps BSA should take the stance that since procedures were not followed, the CO has to bear the burden alone. Wow, THAT would send a shudder around the campfires. It would also be an opportunity for us to see evidence that BSA isn't a puppet of the LDS church. Interesting.

Agree with John-in-KC, this was not patrol camping. If some attempt at deception like that is pulled in court it will set a very poor example of honesty. BSA should demand unequivocal evidence, but BSA attorneys should not bend the truth just to avoid responsibility. Time to prepare to pay the damages, I'm afraid.

"Maybe we should be studying the UK males to see what they are doing right." On the basis of comparison of UK population growth rate, lots of 'spawing' may be negatively correlated. Oh, death, where is thy sting?

I think everyone is tempted at times to feel and display prejudice - to characterize whole groups of people on the basis of only a few. I can think of several examples.....

OK, putting things together now... LongHaul, I understand your point and I can't fault your reasoning. And I do agree regarding the SO WHAT factor. Given my life philosophy of "spawn till you die" and the fact that, biologically speaking, paternity is always in doubt, it is easy for me to think of PC in terms of SO WHAT. If I were to get PC I'd probably do nothing whatsoever except perhaps hope that some other little bug does the trick first (let's hear it for the bugs!)...but not before a lot more spawning.