packsaddle

FScouter, if the boy wants to wear the award proudly, I'll let you deny him that right. Me, I'll support the boy. Likewise if a scouter wants to wear the rainbow ribbon, I'll let you rip that patch off their uniform. I think I can find more important things to worry about. I think John-in-KC has one detail not quite right with regard to the UUA award. A religious denomination does not have to buy into the BSA position on gays or atheists. But if the UUA episode is a guide to BSA's response, a denomination that disagrees with BSA and states their disagreement explicitly in the literature for their award may face the fate of the UUA. BSA's action was an assault on freedom of speech, not freedom of thought. To extend that idea, if the church cannot agree with BSA's policy on gays and atheists...with respect to membership, then they probably need to reconsider being a CO.

I think it would be useful to separate the message from the messenger in this case. Merlyn brought this news to us. The fact that HE brought it has no bearing on the actual content of the news. We can discuss the actual events as Beavah tried to do at first, or we can take the opportunity to argue with Merlyn about BSA and whatever merits (or lack thereof) are associated with BSA. But to me, Merlyn is not the issue. The issue is the fact that this sad case exists at all and may have existed for some time. I agree with Beavah, it is tragic (Beavah, my fantasy involves a dissecting kit). The nature and motives of BSA's response to these things are legitimate questions. I, for one, would like to know if there is a corporate pattern to BSA's response and if so, why? But in this particular case, it is sad that this guy was not detected long ago and stopped. No matter what side of other issues we fall on, this kind of thing is bad in every way.

Welcome to the forums. Check with your chartering organization (CO) and see if anyone there has contacts or access to space on a server somewhere. That's what we did. There were several guys who work in web development, etc. and they pointed us in the right direction. This means, you know, that you will need one more volunteer to be the webmaster on your committee? I envy you working with the cubs. I have very fond memories of it myself.

Excellent point, ScoutNut. And even if the required 25 units weren't identified, I doubt that anyone in the uniform police would say anything if the boys wore the award on their uniform anyway. I sure wouldn't worry about it.

If BSA invested so heavily in the building, if they built the building, why did they donate it to the city in 1928? What was the advantage of doing this? I don't 'get' it.

Not in our area, sorry.

Happy Chanukah to you as well. We have a special observance for this and other traditions during this season. It kind of rolls all of them in to a really nice package of celebration. But no matter how I do it, I always have this nagging feeling that I've spelled it the wrong way.

Talk to local schools, local government recreation offices (city parks), county parks, state parks, even national parks. Most of these have long lists of needed work that are neglected due to lack of horsepower (not that you guys are horses or anything like that ). Also, check with summer camps outside BSA. I know of camps that specialize in handicapped or underprivileged children. They usually have things that need to be done. The local charities will also have ideas. Check with the local historical societies. They often have things on the shelf waiting for help. The local governments also often have potential projects...we refurbished a set of very old stone city gates for one project. There are many, many such opportunities. Good luck on making the choice.

One more suggestion that just came to mind. In the summer, the best team-building exercise I have EVER seen is to put them in rafts and go down a whitewater river. If they don't learn to work as a team, they'll have a long hard day. But usually they DO learn and we all have a really great day. Hot weather, cool river, great surroundings, and everyone working together. Great.

Wow, I agree with scoutldr. That comment about hitting and worse, with an object, really caught my eye. I know parents who would have aggressively pressed charges of some kind, maybe child abuse, even if it didn't involve their own son. Wow. I agree with Gold Winger. TRAINING! New CM if you have a better one available. Get with the program. I am an old CM and cub scouts are really easy if you follow the program. You don't have to do anything fancy but it IS supposed to be fun. The boys are supposed to WANT to be there. And I agree, if they can't afford the uniforms, then go with the t-shirts. We did something similar.

Thanks Gonzo, I'm not sure when he's done with his tour but if he sends any more of these things I'll pass them on. I get stuff second hand through his family.

"An atheist has no faith." I see this as a flawed statement. First, since you are obviously NOT an atheist, how can you pretend to speak for all atheists? On the other hand you may think lack of faith is the definition of atheism. In that case your statement applies to most Buddhists. I think they might disagree. And it would be an incorrect defninition. Second, and in a more general sense, I am not sure that 'faith' has to be based on any unseen, unknown, supernatural spirit or force whether it is God, space aliens, or a celestial turtle. Faith in a general sense, is a kind of statement of predictive power that may be strong even when it is based on the least objective evidence (i.e. faith in a person's love, faith that a machine will work, faith that the natural forces that worked in the past will work in the future under the same rules, faith that my operating system will crash at least twice while I am writing this . ) But if you think that faith is ONLY associated with some kind of supernatural deity, then it would be consistent with your statement.

You might as well ask anyone that question. I fail to understand why you might think their faith is less legitimate than others, especially if you admit that you are ignorant of it in the first place. On the other hand, if you are asking what is the common bond that brings them together, then you can find some of those answers in the link that Melyn provided and you can go to the UUA website for more. It is my personal understanding that part of the common bond (there may be more to this) is a common desire to search for truth in a rational manner and a willingness to consider alternative views and approaches that each of them may bring to the group. Maybe that helps a little. It's just one part that I understand.

A few years back we had a camporee that was organized around team-building activities. I really enjoyed it and so did the boys. Most of the activities can be found among these: http://usscouts.org/games/game_t.asp We didn't do the falls.

Gold Winger, true enough up to a point. The limit, I think, is placed at beliefs that harm others. Other than that, the advantage to this approach is that you don't have to worry about what others think and you can be secure that they are not worrying about what you think. It is a very personal approach to faith, perfect for the American spirit of independence and personal freedom. I think I like it.

So Gonzo1, I see you have a mean streak. I like that. My daughter says I'm crusty with a soft center. She uses the term, 'cream puff'. I'm not sure I like that one very much though. Do they still make golf balls with liquid cores? Anyway, we have things covered pretty well this year. My son was fanatical about slickdeals.com and some other sites I don't even remember. So he near about flooded us with freebies this year. (for example, you can go to the Juicy Juice web site and print coupons for free 64 oz bottles of Juicy Juice. No purchase required. I have been known to stop at three different stores, 4 jars each, and I've managed to keep the class supplied with free juice... no need to tell the JJ people about this, the coupons expire in a few days anyway...besides the school doesn't have the money to pay for stuff like that) But I bet there are classrooms somewhere near you (I think you need to find a Title 1 school) and children nearby who could use a little attention. My daughter-in-law's students lives are fragile and even while many of them live under incredibly hard circumstances, they are quick to smile and they want to learn with such enthusiasm. They are among the few children I know who are ecstatic if you give them an apple or something like that. I don't see how anyone could turn their back to these kids (I guess this is why I like cub scouts so much). Oh well, time to go practice my lines...Ho, ho, ho!

Gonzo1, you need to sit down for what you're about to read. Every year, actually just a few days from now, I put on a Santa suit and do the Christmas thing for my daughter-in-law's 2nd grade. Those kids are from a really poor area. So all through the rest of the year when stores offer freebies marketing ploys, we fill up on small items that they can use in school, collect them over the year and then hand them out at Christmas as gifts. In her class, if they do something as seemingly small as make a paper drawing of a clock and paste some clock hands on it, the kids think it's the greatest thing. Those gifts are cherished. One kid put on his christmas list that he wanted some socks and a wash cloth. So I do Santa every year and I go, "HO HO HO!" Worse, to perpetuate this myth even more, I go around the other classes and wish all of the kids a Merry Christmas. Heh, heh, last year my daughter-in-law heard two of the kids discussing the possibility that I was a fake. One said, "..you think he's just dressed up like Santa?". The other kid says, "...oh no, he's the real thing...he's old!" Nice, huh? Just livin' the dream.

Yeah Gonzo1, I understand and that's ok with me. I really like the holiday and its coincidence with so many others. Get 'em all out of the way at once...most of them, at least. But really, coming from the South and spending Christmas in NY is a real blast I look forward to every year. I love Manhattan anyway but I really love Manhattan at Christmas time. And, contrary to the topic of the thread, most New Yorkers don't pay much attention to political correctness. Christmas is fairly in your face everywhere...OK, it's mostly driven by profit but hey, that's the American economic system...Love it or leave it!

Yeah, but I'm glad about the way the Christians, unable to establish the ACTUAL birth date, adopted the traditional December 25 date celebrated as Natalis Invicti. http://www.worldspirituality.org/december-25.html Moreover, the pagans can continue to celebrate the feast unnoticed while the attention is focused on commerce and Christians who ironically object to assaults on 'their' name for the holiday.

Or we could just decide to enjoy the whole Christmas season anyway and don't worry about the nonsense. Just an idea. Happy Holiday!

Find a UU church, go there and ask about it. Seriously. They won't be offended. You might have to listen to some lengthy explanation though. And, someone might ask you some questions in return.

"Because of the guy with the biggest stick. religious morality protects the people whose individual influence is too small to make a difference in society. usually the poor. Morality is basically what society dictates it to be, just as you guys keep trying to say. But without some kind of respect for the for the source, morality changes as the source changes. Usually that is a change in leadership and usually the little people don't get a say and suffer the most. In other words, without God, morality comes from the guy with the biggest stick." Some would say that is a quite logical explanation for the origin of religion.

My cousin sends this item of good news from Iraq. Happy Thanksgiving. http://www.aina.org/news/2007111715948.htm

Well, for that matter there is no one, provided I am faithful to my claim, who can provide evidence that I have not also personally received messages from spirits or God or space aliens. Who knows, maybe I'm missing an opportunity to make a lot of money. But if I came from Thermia and just arrived here with no preconceived notions, I would have to consider all such claims with equal belief or equal doubt, even those who have pieces of paper with the claims written on them. Without further evidence that I can examine there is simply nothing more... ...but then nothing more is needed for true faith. I don't see what the problem is. People are free to believe whatever cockamamie beliefs they want as long as they don't harm any of the rest of us as a result (I never much cared for blue laws or dry counties ). This is where those who reject medical care on the basis of faith, for example, tend to encounter difficulties when denying care to their own children. Gonzo1, I am fairly certain that I would feel little or no remorse if I ever made the decision to take a life, for whatever reason. That burden would be settled prior to the act...I think you know what I mean. Back to the topic, I agree that a basic moral code has been around for perhaps as long as man has formed social groups. Moreover, I think those basics arise from simple application of logic and require nothing else. Which is why I don't understand why anyone thinks morality MUST depend on religious faith and that without such faith there can be no such moral codes.

Great outing for the scouts. Any idea how far they walked?