packsaddle

"How should Faith inform scouting, it should not, Scouting should each scout the opportunity and examples for developing a religious belief of their choosing and give them guidance by example and opportunity to give service to God." I quite agree. As for that 'brainwashing' thing....Oh hogwash! (OK, Trevorum, I would have said, 'brainwash' but you already stole that one) Your argument has the feeling of assigning a causal relationship to a correlation. Anyway, if your argument is that with sufficient effort, a young person can be persuaded to close his mind to options, I tend to agree. But that will always remain a conscious and calculated decision on his part...to keep his mind closed. If people make that choice because it is easy or feels good or whatever, I can't put all the blame on some zealot for that outcome...some of it must go to the 'deciders', who you must admit, have the ability to open their minds if they want. Perhaps this is just a difference of perspective between us...or is it going to be horse turds at 20 paces?

Yeah, the change thing is troublesome. More than ever, to me it looks like whoever inherits this mess is going to be constrained so many ways that all the election rhetoric will be quickly forgotten as reality dictates terms. So the question becomes who is to inherit the mess? Bright, young, motivated, interesting and idealistic candidates...or boring, unimaginative, grumpy old white men?

"...I don't expect to convince Pappy to let his son becaome a Buddhist if that what he wants to do." Balderdash. I agree that you can't necessarily convince Pappy of something. But while Pappy might be able to suppress his son's expression regarding whatever thoughts and belief his son has, his son will (and does) have the ability to decide for himself what he chooses to believe. Pappy, ultimately, can only hope it will be one thing or another. His son, ultimately, can tell Pappy to take a flying 'leap' at a rolling donut.

Ahhh, the spaghetti westerns.... He really did revive that genre with those. A while back I heard an interview on NPR with Eli Wallach about those films. He said they agonized over who to find as a bad guy but when Lee Van Cleef's photo came in they just sent everyone else away. Anyway it was a really fun interview and I had to see them all again afterwards. Still good. I think that Buono, il brutto, il cattivo might be one of the great ones of all time. One piece of trivia that I had never known was that all three were filmed as silent films. Sound was dubbed in later because of all the road traffic, horns, planes in the background. But for sheer meanness, I like 'Once upon a time in the West'. Or maybe 'Blue Velvet' (yeah, I know it's not a western but I knew guys just like Frank Booth). If you want to show the boys an adventure film that will rip their faces off, try 'Mountains of the Moon', the story of the discovery of the origin of the Nile River. That is a fine, fine movie.

"THe other remarks, including me being called or likened to a child endangerer, a disembler, prevaricator, imposter, BSA hater, fascist, humbug, and even false prophet..." Wow, I'm impressed. I had to work for years before I collected all those accolades and I'm still not sure I have received one or two of them yet...h'mmm, need to keep working. Well, I've never been asked to moderate and I've never volunteered. I guess that's good because I'd pretty much let anything go. But I've seen the ad Crew12_Adv mentioned and it is very effective. To be safe, you must keep in mind that pretty much everything that any of us ever writes on the web will be public domain forever. Including the really thoughtless stuff that most of us have regretted from time to time. Have a nice day.

There is a finite probability that some internal equivocation existed regarding the split offices of CoL, prior to the Philadelphia decision. It is possible that a savvy BSA attorney calculated that BSA could force consolidation (a win for one side in BSA internal politics?) while at the same time looking like a victim (another win, sort of?).

Oh good grief! There's a guy not too far from here who flies the flag at half-mast all the time...to make room for the Confederate Battle Flag above it. I think it would be a great idea for you guys to come on down and have a conversation with him about the rules. Don't let that little red spot dancing on your chest deter you as you make your way through the weeds and dead cars and past his No Trespassing signs. After all there's no need to worry, a Sheriff's deputy lives next door.

I see them every time I pass a school that requires uniforms, in this and in other countries. And I think they look great. I've even seen it before, back when I was CM, in this cub scout pack..my daughter referred to them as the 'blue meanies', heh, heh. I really miss the cubs.

Quite a nice batch of budding social activists. I salute you! Someone mentioned the DRP. I took at look at the application I signed a long time ago and just realized that it contained no such statements...it was before they made the new version. I guess I'm 'grandfathered' in until they make me redo the application someday.

Nope, they're doing fine on their own.

Yep gwd-scouter, I guess I'll be there with you as one of those "yay-who's who just signed an adult leader app." Sniff. Seriously, I have really thick skin. Comes from all the little circular scars all over my body....back when I was younger and girls were daring each other to touch me with a 10-foot pole. So feel free to dump on me if you want to, it'll just roll off.

I thought about your previous post where you mentioned speaking the truth. My observation is that if you let that concern cause you to quit scouting, then you've allowed the forces that you object to...to take even more control. My advice is from Davy Crockett - make sure you're right and then go ahead. Or from my old commanding general, essentially exactly the same advice. If you have an idea that you know is important to you, I suspect you'll find a lot of others who actually agree with you. But here's the catch: You'll derive more strength for your ideas from those who disagree and are willing to engage you with their reasoning. Good luck.

I have a great idea..ok, I may be the only one who thinks that...but here it is: If they don't resolve these questions soon - we produce a farcical version of it ourselves, you know, to help Gern through this and maybe have a little lighthearted fun. I volunteer to play Bob's role and answer the questions that Merlyn asked. Ed, you up for Merlyn? yuk,yuk,yuk,yuk,yuk,yuk,yuk,yuk.

Here's the quote from the Kansas case in 1998, from the BSA attorney: "Although Boy Scouts of America is not a religious sect, it is religious, and, while the local council is not a house of worship like a church or a synagogue, it is a religious organization."

I can hardly add to scoutmomma's post so I will merely note that Philadelphia is, and for a long time has been.. one of my favorite cities. Nothing but great memories over about 30 years of visits. I just thought some positive vibes would be good right now.

I hear you too, le Voyageur. The Real ID thing is, as noted by Gold Winger is profoundly idiotic. But also as noted, it has nothing to do with Scouting..nor will your absence from their lives be of benefit to them. Or am I wrong? So if you decide to quit, go ahead and do it. Your choice. Your reasons. If I make a similar choice, it will be my personal decision and I promise everyone here, you'll merely know it happened, nothing more. However, I cannot understand the linkage of Real ID to BSA leadership. I, too, have a visceral contempt for the idea (after all we already HAVE such an ID...it's called a 'Passport' - any citizen can get one). If I decide to quit, it will be for family, or career reasons. Not because of morons in government. As for you le Voyageur, I wish you the best...and the best of decisions.

I would like to admit first, that this unit probably (almost certainly) doesn't get everything right, according to regulations. Some of that is due to leaders and scouts missing the point and some of it is due to a lax district and council. But as long as we 'try' to get it right that should be sufficient. I know I've learned a lot of things here on these forums and often from people like Bob White, Eamonn, OGE, Beavah, or Brent Allen. We sometimes disagree on things but I think we all 'intend' the same thing for the boys. And understanding we have that in common, we then can go on having fun fussing about 'other' stuff. So I'm sympathetic with the spirit of Beavah's message, even while admitting that he (and I) sometimes miss that mark. To me it's important to keep trying - and learning when possible.

Compared to Ty Cobb, Pete Rose is a 'girly man'. Oh well, I guess it just doesn't have the same impact if you don't hear it from Arnold.

Corvette? What a wimpy idea! Me, I'd pick some form of crotch rocket, or if it had to have four wheels it would be this: http://www.dreams-cars.net/images/Galerie/Shelby/Shelby_Cobra_427_1967/Shelby_Cobra_427_1967_01.jpg but mine would be black with a stripe of gold scales down the middle. What a way to go...and I would too.

This thread came back to life just in time for some to reconsider their summer choices, but for most it is too late. But the topic could be re-named, "Central Authority Meets Market Economy". The troops are free to make their decisions. In reality, councils don't have as much influence over the troops as they do over their camps. The easier thing to do if they want 'customers' is to provide a competitive product. The 'customers' will make their decisions for all the various reasons customers make such decisions but ultimately, if the product doesn't live up to expectations, the vendor (councils) should expect to be outcompeted by better products. I just love this Darwinian world.

The market, responding to Dubya's concern, is rebounding as I write...only down by 272. Whew...nice to know we're in good hands.

The Fed cut rates by 0.75% and in spite of that the votes were in: "Within minutes of the opening bell in New York, the Dow Jones Industrial Average fell more than 400 points, or 3.5 percent, and other major indexes also slid. The Nasdaq Composite was down more than 5 percent." From Fox News: http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/article/futures-red-fed-cuts-075-emergency-action_444468_2.html Apparently Bush is contemplating an even larger 'stimulus' package than the $150 billion already on the table. Sorry, grandchildren. Maybe what we really need is a really, really huge tax cut to stimulate the economy, balance the budget, and head off a potential recession. Not some paltry rebate thing, go for the glory of a REAL tax cut. If a little is good a lot must be better right?

Our administration has announced their concern about the economy and intends to fix it. What evidence do we have that they will do any worse than they've done in maintaining a balanced budget for going on 8 years now or than their strategic genius has done in matters of foreign policy? The other markets spoke today. Ours will respond in the morning. Wonder what will happen. But that part about intergenerational theft is almost biblical: "...visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation." Have a nice day.

Sounds good. Try to find leaders who really care and then get them trained. For cub scouts, make sure the guys are having fun. I tried to make sure the dens were physically active every den meeting. We'd start with foot races, rope climbs, crab soccer...that sort of thing. Sometimes the boys would let me win one. Then on with the den meetings. Pack activities need to be engaging and fun as well. But if you have caring, trained leaders it is a lot easier. But the program is central to the health of the pack. The recruitment should come naturally after that. Good luck.

Sounds more like a Republican political debate. Eleven...wow, I guess congratulations - and lots and lots of cake.