packsaddle

Ed, the idea that those programs are going to end is speculative because that outcome has not yet happened. You're predicting an outcome that doesn't have to happen. As Merlyn has noted, LA has the means to continue the programs in different form, probably with little or no additional cost. For that matter, BSA could continue the L4L program with the stroke of a pen. No cost. No one knows for sure what the effect will be. But what is CERTAIN is that LA must cut the ties in obeyance of the law. And it seems certain that they will. It doesn't necessarily mean anyone will lose the program, only that BSA won't be contracting with LA. I don't understand why so many of us advocate breaking the law.

It doesn't matter what your viewpoint is regarding the 'me' thing. LA must follow the law. Period. LL is demanding that LA follow the law. To do anything else would be unscoutlike. If BSA didn't discriminate, this wouldn't be an issue. BSA chose this path (the class V rapid) and must live with the consequences. Tough luck. Wetting one's pants over this won't change those facts.

Skeptic, if you're saying that BSA thought (hoped) they could 'get away with it', I agree. They were apocalyptically incompetent at predicting the future. One of my surgeon friends likes to repeat a rule-of-thumb that he was taught during his training. It is really good advice for surgeons who don't want to be sued and it would have worked for BSA as well. "If you think you can get away with it, don't do it."

The thing is, Ed, that as you acknowledged, LA must obey the law. The way this really works is that lawfully, LA has no choice and LL is exercising their legal right to compel the government to obey the law. To advocate otherwise would be to advocate breaking the law. Therefore BSA is the controlling entity. BSA freely chooses their discrimination policy. BSA is not being forced to discriminate and BSA doesn't have to discriminate, they choose to. Therefore it is essentially BSA policy that will force LA to cut the ties. If any harm is done, BSA will be responsible for it. This is the poorly-scouted class V rapid that Calico described so vividly. And it was a great metaphor for the whole issue.

Quick thumbnail calculation: Assuming the average human breathes approximately 3000 gallons of air per day (an OK figure), and figuring that the atmosphere has a mass of about 5 x 10**18 kg which converts at the rate of about 1.2 kg per cubic meter(at STP), then the standard volume of the atmosphere is about 4.17 x 10**9 cubic km and the 6 billion or so people breathe about 68.14 cubic km per day. Now doing the appropriate math it looks like the current population could theoretically filter the entire atmosphere through our lungs once about every 167,664 years, give or take a few minutes. I think we need to get right on the stick and start making lots more people! And get double the benefit with all that heavy breathing as well ....eeeeeeehaaaaaa! "Say goodnight Gracie..."

Interesting you should mention the smoke detectors. Americium sources should be disposed of properly but on the scale of radiation hazards, it isn't near the top. For example landfills are now being equipped with gamma detectors (even the individual trucks, more and more) and if a truck enters with a radiation source, the government environment types have to do an expensive piece-by-piece pick through to find the source. Smoke detectors usually are not the culprit. Here's a story about one common culprit. Read the second article about the radioactive diaper: http://www.calcupa.net/news/newsletters/WebAug2004.pdf I mean, is THAT cool or what?

Heh, heh, I noticed that the photo on the linked page had a caption about air sampling while the photo was a person in a boat holding a Kemmerer WATER sampler. Someone needs a better editor. The top three contaminants are quite different in behavior. The two pesticides, DDT and dieldrin, were extensively sprayed over large areas of the country before they were banned, in order to control a variety of insect pests. Today we are living with that legacy of our collective ignorance. And although these remain in the atmosphere, the greater amount is bound to soils and sediments associated with the areas of application. Mercury is a different matter. The global airshed and mercury's relatively high vapor pressure ensure that its release from gold mining, coal combustion and other sources (including re-release from the surface of the ocean and other water bodies) will be circulated to ALL of us...without discrimination on the basis of race, creed, sexual orientation, or national origin. I also tend not to be very optimistic about these things. The cleanup costs for less-prominent contaminants (such as PCBs) are great enough that we, the public, have already collectively decided in case after case, to do nothing. What makes anyone think that the even-more-massive costs for the top three will go down any smoother with the public? I'm not betting the ranch on it. Dieldrin and DDT are mostly legacy problems and now mostly bound to soils in the watersheds and sediments in the lakes. We could do something with the sediments but we've already chosen to do nothing in most cases - because it's too expensive. Mercury is indeed an international problem and as long as countries burn coal, and as long as we try to maximize profit, we are going to tend to minimize the costs associated with, for example, scrubbing stack gases. That is to say, we're not likely to put many scrubbers on the stacks because until there is an international mandate, the cost to one country who did it on their own would give a competitive advantage to another (arguments similar to CO2 emissions). As NOMAD would describe us in Episode 37 of the historical documents, we are, "...a mass of conflicting impulses..."

OGE, Then either another program that is owned by a non-discriminatory organization must take the lead (perhaps through 4-H or something like that) or else LA must change its code to allow contracts with discriminatory organizations. In this area I'm fairly certain that 4-H would jump at the chance to take this lead over from BSA. But regardless, if LA continues to break the law in this manner, then it seems LL will have grounds for a suit. Ed, I view this as the few helping to open discriminatory doors to everyone and while L4L is open, BSA isn't. I could actually view the existence of L4L as BSA's own way to crack the door (the camel's nose metaphor comes to mind here). BSA set up this situation by 1) fighting hard to establish their legal status as a private, discriminatory religious organization, and 2) also having L4L as a non-discriminatory branch. It is an irony, although not that tasty.

The no-cost solution is for LA to conform to their own code and sever the ties. If LA is funding any part of the L4L program then they'll save those taxpayer $$ as well. What's the downside?

Yeah, my son used one of those for a while. That top curved bar is part of the frame and it should be high enough not to hit his head. This frame is designed for little guys and it is adjustable to some extent. If he's taller than 5 feet (torso too long for the frame) you might want to look for an alternative. Also, JanSport has fairly good customer service. You might want to give them a call for specific advice: 800.558.3600

Hi, Your description is a bit unclear but either that tube is a cross-member for the frame...and positioned a little below the top of the frame, or it might be an add-on that attaches to the tops of the two upright frame members. The former is an integral part of the frame and should not come in contact with your son's head. In fact, the frame should be equipped with some sort of back-band stretched across the frame in a manner that spaces the frame sligtly away from his back...providing air space and a cushion. If the tube is across the top, it is an extension designed for attachment of additional gear on top of the pack. If it is hitting your son's head, there are several possible considerations: First, make sure this frame is the right size for your son. This will depend mostly on the length of his torso. Second, if properly sized, then you have the ability to adjust, at a minimum, the shoulder straps - and possibly other adjustments as well - to make sure that while he is carrying the loaded pack, this part of the frame does not hit his head. Third, if this contact is unavoidable or if you are concerned about accidental contact, cut some of the better quality, pliable foam pipe insulation to the correct length and then tape it over that tube. This will at least cushion the contact if needed. When I use my external frame (Camp Trails Astral Cruiser), I like that tube in place because I can rest my head against it if I stop for a momentary 'breather' (sadly, happening more often now as I age). But when the pack is loaded and adjusted properly, it rides in a manner that eliminates the problem for normal backpacking. Good luck and happy trials!

All this about HATS? I learned manners the Southern way and I still say "yes, Ma'm" and "no, Ma'm". The yankees love it. When they hear me speak, yankee women my age crowd in and ask me to, "...say something else...". Cheap thrills...yeah! Well, at least I've learned a whole lot more about the customs of the Catholic church than I knew 10 minutes ago. But Beavah, if you take a gander at the photos on this website you'll see both Truman and Eisenhower outside with bare heads: http://www.medaloffreedom.com/PresidentEisenhower.htm By the way, has anyone ever noticed the similarity of Ike's appearance to Homer Simpson? And if Samuel Jackson was white....I mean, WOW!

If it was between the hours of 10am and 12 noon I was in a college summer school course on Calculus and Analytical Trig. Between 2pm and 5pm I was doing swim practice. Otherwise I have no alibi. Edited part: Yeah, I bet it gets thrown out unless someone comes up with real evidence.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

I didn't hear it but this is what I read shortly after: O'Reilly: "I don't want to go on a lynching party against Michelle Obama unless there's evidence, hard facts, that say this is how the woman really feels" Did he really say this? Anyone hear it? Edited part: I guess Gern and I were typing at the same time. Anyway, now I've heard it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRD-zBhE1xM

Setting aside the truth (or lack of it) of the current accusations, I will note that McCain was an egregious victim of these types of tactics during a previous campaign. In the 2000 SC primary, the Bush campaign made phone calls and circulated church fliers in which they accused McCain of being insane, of having a black, illegitimate child, labeled him as "The Fag Candidate", and accused his wife of being a drug addict. This, from the campaign of an admitted alcoholic cocaine cowboy. Go figure. Well, we swallowed it just the same as we swallowed all the other stuff this administration has given us. So we elected Bush. Why would anyone expect a different kind of campaign today?

I am not convinced that those accusations about McCain are true. But even if they are, I am less interested in some personal infidelity than I am in his change-up regarding involvement with special interests. THAT has far more importance to the public. But there again, I'll wait until the dust settles to make any decisions. Let's face it, ALL the dirt is going to get tossed in this one, no matter who it is.

"Heck, it was a Pope that invented the calendar..." H'mmm. I never want to hear you make any kind of complaint about Al Gore's connection to the internet.

Gold Winger, Cool! You're the first to mention this. We use the Jdate for our long-term databases, both within years and between them. But it could just as well be called the 'day number' or something like that. The idea is that regardless of calendar accuracy, the days go by and we just count them. This day-to-day perspective is appropriate for our studies because fish, for example, have little knowledge of calendars. They DO, however, respond to the diel and lunar cycles. So for our data, those notations occupy additional columns. I'm delighted to notice that the others do the same thing.

Yep, it's probably a good thing we weren't trying to put men in space or land robots on Mars back then. H'mm but I guess we blew the robot thing anyway, didn't we. At least that wasn't because of different styles of chants.

OGE, I share your concern. My thoughts are not too far off from this editorial: http://www.newsweek.com/id/113672 But then, when my class tried to find out certain specific policies for McCain, we hit a dead end there as well. But either way it will be better than the lying incompetence we've suffered with the current batch.

Heh, heh, I'd just like reassure everyone that each of us is only born once from our biological mother. Ol' George is no exception. But the ol' switcherooo that happened to his birthdate also happened to everyone else who started out under the Julian calendar and ended up under the Gregorian calendar...maybe not as famous though. The more interesting story is why the adjustment was needed. I'll leave that one to the forum sleuths.

Thanks a whole lot Trevorum: that's one more dream shot to Hades.

You know, it was more fun talking about 'ilk'. Pappy can call me anything he wants and I'm fine with it. He couldn't come close to what my wife can do. But Dan, "Pack, the lack of concern for your tenture seems to be related to the presence of a Y chromosome in your genome." Or...it could be that I'm old so it doesn't much matter what happens anymore. You know what I call this? I call it 'freedom', perhaps even 'liberation'. I can do or say pretty much anything that comes to mind and people here just chalk it up to the cantankerous old guy. I DO so much want to be a successful curmudgeon like 'you-know-who' on these forums.

Found this and HAD to share...just too much fun not to. Here's a teaser, "Florida's plucky refusal to embrace 21st century education is one reason that prestigious tech industries have avoided the state, allowing so many of our high-school graduates (and those who come close) to launch prosperous careers in the fast-food, bartending and service sectors of the economy." http://www.miamiherald.com/540/story/421075.html

OGE, MERBPOIUSA doesn't exactly roll off the lips, although I bet Jim Carey could do it.