packsaddle

We also have gay and atheist friends with whom we often socialize. We don't play cards though (that would be sinful), but instead mostly things like dances, evening meals, campouts, and some travel. As I survey this troop and the other local troops, if I exclude all the ethnic minorities that we have enrolled already, it is sort of taken for granted that BSA is a niche organization for the white, middle class.

People do some dumb things and I can plead guilty to some of them myself. In my case it has usually involved some kind of machine, not a carnivore. But I found this on Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/critters/malice/bearmaul.asp Now there's no way to know for sure if this story has a factual basis but the lesson is clear enough to warrant the caution. What I CAN say for sure is that I heard the story when I was in Yellowstone in 1965 but not in 1957. FWIW. I have personally seen parents try to put their child on the back of a bear for a photo (Great Smoky Mountains NP). Thankfully, I did not see the child subsequently killed, the bear merely ran away.

His problem. And I agree, he'll find the original just as soon as he re-does all the paperwork, or else the day after his ECOH. There's no need to berate the boy nor to offer condemnation of youth in general. They're already aware of how goofy they are about many things. OGE, indeed for each thesis and dissertation I've been involved with, I've collected up to a dozen or so drafts and their electronic counterparts. I almost welcome a crashed hard drive (not really).

I'm with John-in-KC. I had two killer meeting plans that never failed no matter how often we did them. One did involve the fire department but we took it a step further and actually set some things on fire and then put them out: papers, different types of clothing, oil. The fire department guy was happy to do the demo, I think he figured it would scare them out of 'experimenting', at least maybe not so often. The other one involved a local snake dealer. Yep, we had a couple dozen different types of snakes, some of them venomous, and one of them fairly big. The boys got to handle about a dozen different species. Some of the moms were fairly alarmed, heh, heh. Talk about 'pucker factor', I bet some of them nearly bit holes in their chairs. Like I said, it never failed. Edited for clarity(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

"Because botulism neurotoxin is destroyed by high temperatures (85 degrees C for five minutes), people who eat home-canned foods should consider boiling the food for 10 minutes before eating it to help ensure that the food is safe to consume." http://www.medicinenet.com/botulism/article.htm and http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/dfbmd/disease_listing/botulism_gi.html I have shown empirically that if the mashed potatoes have pink or blue colonies or reddish discoloration, or if the meat loaf or spaghetti has shiny white colonies on it or in it, not only will it taste weird, but you'll risk illness as well. Especially if eaten at room temperature without re-cooking it. On the other hand, I've had good luck with mayonnaise left in its jar on my desk for months without incident. Go figure. But I guess that if I wanted to eat food contaminated by raw sewage, Goshen is the current destination.

Which ones are heat labile?

Anniepoo, the strain was indeed the nasty you mentioned: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/08/04/ST2008080400819.html Whenever I hear of the E. coli problem being associated with ground beef contamination, I think in terms of improper food preparation, namely undercooked. Because you're the professional in this matter, I'd like for you to give us your take on this, maybe repeat the oft repeated guidelines on proper cooking and its importance. Thanks

Nike, I'll be glad to offer a letter of support. PM me.

Years ago, our Dean of Sciences was a former Marine. He had tattoos on both forearms and they were designs that 'moved' when he flexed his muscles. Wow, did that ever impress the academic types?! He didn't last long.

While I try to figure out who GB is, I wonder: Skeptic, you are joking, right? Thanks, Gold Winger, for saving me the trouble. The common name for the group of organisms that daddy longlegs belong to is the 'harvestmen'. No fangs, no venom, not spiders. But you mentioned lady bugs in the house. There is recent invasive species that is still 'swarming' over the country. Here is link you might find interesting: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/br/lbeetle/ My old office used to get thousands of these in the windows and ceilings every week during the early winter. They don't bother anything really but they might accumulate inside computers and appliances. I had to vacuum my keyboard weekly. We also had scorpions coming in every fall. The cobweb spiders used to really chow down on them.

BSA doesn't really care, I think. But the CO might. Personally, as a biologist, I dislike any form of mutilation. Yesterday I saw a tattoo parlor, I think it was in Carbondale, IL, that was titled, "Blood Born". I kept thinking to myself...they left off the 'e'. And the word, 'disease'.

I've seen trail building, cemetery restoration, memory gardens, city gate restoration, building a bird sanctuary, bridges over streams on trails, trail restoration, petting zoos, etc. The element that all of them had was construction by a team of scouts and adults...hand tools, power tools, wood, steel, etc. All of the approved projects that I've seen put the scout in the position of job designer/manager/foreman. Every one was a project that was a unique, one-time effort with a start, a finish, and a product at the end. And no need or expectation that the project would need to be repeated, at least not by us. NJ, our answer to your trail question was that the length needs to have a logical starting point and a real destination and no particular minimum length. The path between the two points must be designed with both use and impact in mind. We've only done two new trails, both on church properties (church camps in the mountains) and each about 1/4 mile long. Each took about two months of weekends and a crew of about 12 each weekend. They consisted of a survey for the physical location, a survey for impact to nature, and then the construction. Each also involved a well-marked entry structure. Our tendency is NOT to blow our own horn but rather to sign it according to the wishes of the receiving organization. Hope this helps.

uz2bnowl, sorry you don't qualify...being from NY and not Crete. Anyway, the last thing I want is to have a completely wrong idea. I expect you and others to set me straight and so you do from time to time. I am glad to reciprocate, even if you don't care a rip about the difference between some of these organisms. Lisabob, I hear you and the boys. This would be a way cool badge IF they only had to collect 50 species, identified to ORDER or FAMILY. By the way, I challenge any of the super scouts who claim to have earned every MB to show me their collections. I would be extremely impressed if I see that they have truly done what the requirements require.

Gwd, there are two ways to get there and we find the quickest is the Atlanta route. The other way is through the hills and it is very scenic, and very slow. The rest area at exit 115 in GA is a good place to unload before you risk getting caught in Atlanta traffic. Then take 285 around the north and up I75 to Chattanooga. There is a good place to stop at the TN welcome center. Take a cooler with sandwich stuff and have a picnic. On some trips, we camp overnight at Red Top Mountain State Park on Lake Allatoona. Or you can picnic there as well. If you sleep in the cave you won't need tents but you can't take food or drinks other than water in with you. I'd advise taking a campsite just to use for cooking...the guys are really going to be hungry. If you have time and want to take a nice swim, there is a nice park farther west at Nickajack Dam. It is a TVA park and has a nice roped off swimming area. Warning: our guys learned all about leeches there, but we had a great time anyway. (make sure they check EVERYWHERE! ) And as noted, there is also all the stuff in Chattanooga. I add that the International Tow Truck Museum is also worth considering. If you ever want to do some truly wild caves, I have a lot of info on the area just a bit farther west near Monteagle. Lots of caves, the real deal.

Oh well, as long as we have this topic to beat to death, I'd be interested in reading what everyone thinks 'leadership' means, within the narrow context of the Eagle service project. Now the first thing that comes to mind is the job foreman or drill instructor type who barks orders and makes everything work like a well-oiled machine. That's pretty much what I am as a principal investigator for some research project. However, I am willing to consider the possibility that an administrator doesn't have to be a mere percentage parasite. In the ideal world an administrator could also be a leader. So then there is the leader who carefully plans a project and selects people and resources carefully so that once begun, the project is pretty much self-directing. I actually know one administrator who can do this! Wow. Then there are leaders who have the vision for a project, work in the background to secure the support and resources and then assign the project to a project leader who then executes it. I think most administrators think they do this. Most of them are sadly mistaken. Anyway, in each case I think leadership is displayed but often it seems that scouts are expected to be job foremen or something along those lines. Am I correct? Is this the way it is and should it be this way? Edited for clarity.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Urban myth time! I just love the daddy longlegs stuff. People think they're insects. People think they're spiders. (They're neither) People think they're poisonous (NOT!). Etc, etc. Good grief! I also question this requirement: "Collect and mount 50 different species.* Include six orders and 18 families of insects. Label each with common and scientific names, where possible." The asterisk: "*Some insects are endangered species and are protected by federal or state law. Every species is found only in its own special type of habitat. Be sure to check natural resources authorities in advance to be sure that you will not be collecting any species that is known to be protected or endangered, or in any habitat where collecting is prohibited." This requirement, done correctly, is a truly daunting task. It would indeed be a simple matter to find 50 species of insects and mount them correctly. However, the identification to species part is far from trivial. Even college entomology classes that require collections do not much exceed this task. I also suggest that the counselor who thinks he/she can judge those identifications must be especially highly trained. Or else the exercise is hopelessly full of undiscovered errors and the boy has learned less than he thinks. There is a link at USScouts.org that claims to be a way to propose new or revised merit badges: http://www.usscouts.org/mb/proposals.asp I think this one is truly a candidate for revision. As for the fish, if I catch one that meets the limit requirements, I eat it. Edited Part: I hope I don't have to comment on that "slug" in the list. It does, ahem, emphasize the inability of most people to distinguish even the most basic organismal groups from one another. Sigh. Ticks, alas, are arachnids, not insects, as well, and 'sowbugs' are (Sigh again) isopods.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Welcome to the forums, woopzitwasme. Great moniker, by the way. In fairness, I happen to know that blood drives ARE sometimes approved for Eagle projects because I've given blood at them, although not for this unit, nor for this district. Evidently there is some variation in interpretation although in this I agree with Bob White. The Eagle project is supposed to allow you to demonstrate leadership through service to the community (specifically through the service project). From the booklet: cover letter, "Before you now is the opportunity to master yet another set of skills. These skills are encompassed in the requirements for the rank of Eagle Scout. One of these requirements is your demonstration of leadership skills. You do so by planning and carrying out an Eagle Scout leadership service project." and then, "How big a project is required? There are no specific requirements, as long as the project is helpful to a religious institution, school, or community. The amount of time spent by you in planning your project and the actual working time spent in carrying out the project should be as much as is necessary for you to demonstrate your leadership of others." The emphasis is on demonstration of leadership. For a blood drive, there is an additional twist in that the project cannot benefit a private entity. "The project also may not be performed for a business or an individual, be of a commercial nature, or be a fund-raiser." Some blood drives are done on behalf of for-profit medical facilities. You didn't mention who would actually be DOING the blood drive so this is also a question. But the main objection is that after making a few phone calls and perhaps doing some publicity, the actual blood drive is led and executed by professionals. You have no input to procedures, or process. You really don't demonstrate much in the way of leadership, other than taking the initiative to arrange for it to happen. There are better projects, plenty of them, out there for you to lead.

I tend to side with the superintendant, where do I send letters of support? I would be most impressed if they put together some meaningful memorial at Wounded Knee, maybe instill a little humility in the boys instead of celebrating blowing up a mountain.

As a child, during a summer-long camping excursion by my family back in 1957, we stopped to see Mt. Rushmore and the Black Hills. Fond memories. Imagine my shock when I returned with my daughter a couple of years ago: presidential impersonators, vendors of all types, ice cream stands, face-painting, a huge multi-level parking garage, etc. I was stunned. I say hand the whole thing over to Disney and call it what it has become. It never was anything more than a desecrated mountain and now it's a theme park. Save some money for real national treasures.

gwd_scouter, It's fun to take those strolls through memory lane isn't it? I also remember all that, plus wage and price controls (Nixon), odd and even license plate gasoline days, long lines for a 5 gallon limit, etc. Fscouter, heh, heh, I've been told many times by people who claim to love me...that I look like Jed Clampett. But I have never had his luck with bubblin crude. I think we've actually put all of our economic faith in the market and the corporations. That is essentially the decision we took in embracing Reaganomics and then continuing them up to this day, with a short hiatus during Clinton. OF COURSE the market will force business to maximize profit. DUH! This might lead to dishonesty or corner-cutting, etc. But the Darwinian forces of the market will eventually make the necessary corrections. There is no such thing as an ethical business or a corporate morality. There are only human ethics and morality and the extent that organizations may seem to express these qualities is due to the human individuals who control those organizations. We have made the faustian bargain and if we are correct, the Darwinian mechanisms and market forces will select against unethical or unscrupulous organizations. What so many of us are objecting to is the fact that the 'unseen hand' doesn't care who gets selected. It isn't nice. It doesn't care about feelings. It has no moral sense. I'm mystified by the rhetoric being wasted on ANWR and off-shore oil, not to mention oil shale or tar sands. Do people actually believe any or all of that will bring back cheap gas? Brings me to Mencken again: "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people" Perhaps we should prepare our children for a future cleaning the laundry of Indian entrepreneurs and Chinese industrialists. Oops, I see we're right on track.

It's partly a matter of economics, partly politics. They're almost inseparable and I cannot forget the graphic symbolism of Reagan taking the solar panels off the White House. But you're right, solar cells are about 10-20% efficient right now and if we use the warmth of sunlight directly it approaches 100%. The problem is cost. When carbon begins to cost enough, the market will allow us to make a rational decision to move to solar panels, kind of like Germany is doing now. And few of us have ever accused the Germans of being stupid. On a slightly different direction, I recently did a stint out in the Pacific Northwest. I was working on projects associated with hydropower, of which there is an abundance on the Columbia R. Yet, even though not all of the hydro potential has been exploited, wind turbines are being installed at an exponential rate. Same in the Iowa cornfields. A few years ago I could gaze vast distances over a climax forest of corn. Now I see hundreds, maybe thousands, of the big turbines. T.Boone Pickens is also a smart guy. http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_10039547?source=rss I hope he makes a pile of money and I suspect he will.

Folks, let's consider what we're whining about. Fossil fuel is nothing more than solar energy that was sequestered by organisms long enough ago for it to be considered fossilized. (OK, for you young-earth types, that was about 6,000 years ago...rolling my eyes). Anyway, of all the energy that bombarded those plants, only about 0.5% was fixed into biomass. An even smaller portion of that was stored away as fossil fuel (some of it was decomposed before it was fossilized). Now, we take these concentrations of extremely inefficiently-fixed hydrocarbons over eons of investment and quickly decompose them in a process that is usually only about 30% efficient, or less. If this is to run a car, it means that in seconds we exploit thousands of years of sunlight to move, say, 200 lbs of biomass and about 4000 lbs of car. If in the form of electricity, we take these same inefficiencies and further inefficiently convert this electricity into....warm water, or warm air, or maybe run a fan to move the warm water or air. If we consider what those hydrocarbons mean in terms of investment in the history of the earth, the fact that we take it for granted that that incredible investment over eons of time should cost almost nothing, is itself incredible. What a bunch of whiners! If you don't like the price, don't buy it. If you can't afford to drive an obscene distance to work, find closer work, or don't work. What you are experiencing is the slap of the unseen hand and the magic of the free market...that almost all of us craved back in the 1980s. We asked for this and now we have it. So be it. This is the American economic system, love it or leave it.

I've been there many times with different groups, three times with scouts. It is a real blast. You can do the wild cave tour with or without the overnight and it is great either way. The first time we did it, the sleeping room had a mud floor and they supplied sheets of mud-coated plastic to protect our sleeping bags. They supplied duffle bags to carry everything in. And they do provide really nice helmets with lights. If you have anyone who is not sure about their ability to remain composed in tight places, there is a small test 'cave' at the main entrance. We enter the 'wild' part near the end of the paved, lighted tour. The first squeeze is called the 'birth canal'. It's a horizontal slot that tapers on both sides. Only the center is passable and even that is kind of a squeeze. You have to turn your head sideways to get the helmet through and you can't look forward or back very easily. If you get off one side or the other too far, you get jammed. That has panic potential so anyone who has a tough time in that first crawl is going to be challenged on ahead. If you do get jammed (and I have) you won't be able to look to figure out which way to go, you just have to wiggle your head to free the helmet and work to the right or left to find the widest path again. This is just the beginning. Although there are more crawls, most are not as bad but there are climbs, squeezes that will greatly challenge anyone who is overweight, and a couple of places that some will just want to walk around. One of those is called the 49cent squeeze (I think) and in order to get through that one, you have to stick one arm out ahead to angle your shoulders to get through the hole. It isn't long but it goes down at an angle and then doubles back up. This means you have to enter one arm out ahead, on your back looking up in order to make the turn. Then, right in the middle, you have to do a 180 degree twist to get your knees past the bend. Very challenging....some people come out in tears. And at the end you've had a really great workout. Wear clothes that can get covered in mud and dirt. Plan to change as soon as you get out, they have showers waiting. There is also a large field to camp in and a regular campground. The guide is always good and I encourage you to give them a nice tip at the end. Also, make sure you get a before/after group photo. Also, make sure the boys bring souvenir money, the gift shop is unavoidable. The end of the trip is ideal when you exit from the wild part through one last slot called the 'mail slot'. It is really short but if you're lucky there will be a regular tour coming through when you and the boys squirt out of this narrow slot covered in mud. The gaping, surprised looks in the tourists are just wonderful. Our best trip happened to coincide with a movie crew filming some kind of grade B horror flick. There were really hokie monsters and gorgeous women. The boys stared like they were dumbstruck. They were. I lingered and found out that it was really a cheap skinflick. Heh, heh, they even offered to 'hire' some of the boys to hold the lights. I declined (G2SS, you know) but I did tell the boys about the offer. I suspect they had sugarplums dancing in their dreams that night. Anyway, if you get the idea that I enjoy the place, you're correct. They're friendly, accommodating, and the tour is a lot of fun. They boys will talk about it for a very long time.

Unless there was some compelling reason I had to have the money, if I didn't need the car myself, I'd GIVE it to my brother. It's only stuff. Edited part: Regarding the nuclear plant, back when I worked for the industry it was common for IOUs (investor owned utilities) only to be able to recover the capital costs of a new plant AFTER they started commercial operation. This was incentive for them to minimize costs and get the job done quickly. I suppose it could be different from state-to-state. But that's how it worked (and still works) here. If there is sufficient investor interest in the technology then the IOU will get that capital through sale of stocks to investors. The public should not be required to 'front' the money for a private business whose successful completion of the project is purely speculative. If the public DOES front that capital, then the public ought to control and own the project once it is completed.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

I think it will be a good thing to add 'Cooking MB' back to the requirements. It was required back when I was a scout (Eagle in 1965) and I thoroughly enjoyed it. In fact I remember a friendly competition among our patrols for the best meals...and they were really good too. Perhaps the reinclusion will bring back some of that interest. One can only hope and work hard to set an example that will instruct the boys on how it's done.