packsaddle

One of the causes of this mess is the thinking error that something of value can be acquired for free. Everyone who had (or has) that notion should be getting the Darwin award as they are selected out of the economy. But it doesn't work so cleanly and they're going to take some of the rest of us with them. NOTHING is free. Our payment is coming due. If the bottom is still a year away, is there any suggestion for how long we will remain there? Could be a very long time. Edited for clarity(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Oh I think that people of modest means are about to take a much bigger hit. The poor may be about to learn how uncaring the market really is. But all of us collectively chose this path, just as surely if we were silent as if we voted for it. We chose the Darwinian approach and now we're whining about the selection process. Time to grow up, take responsibility, or step back and whither into oblivion. No pity, no sympathy, no forgiveness. This, at its worst, doesn't come close to what hundreds of millions of people around the world survive every day. Tough luck for some, just deserts for others, and the good life for the remainder. Welcome to reality.

Me, I'm going to make money off this thing. There are some great investment bargains out there and I plan to find them and buy low so that when retirement comes along, I'll be able to sell high and then invest in 'income' securities. In some ways this timing is just great! For me, at least.

Yeah, and I had never heard that bit of trivia about Kingsford. Interesting.

I also agree with JB. Moreover, it takes a very long time for that charcoal to dry after being soaked with water. One thing I've observed is that the briquettes, on a volumetric basis, seem to last longer. This might also have something to do with the surface area/volume relationships. Regarding reuse, when I prepare charred mammal flesh I always try to be frugal ('cheap', I think was the term used, and I refuse to think of myself as an old buzzard although it might well be true) and use only the quantity that I really need to do the job. And I like my steak NOT to be rare. We do use the briquettes exclusively for Dutch oven cooking because of the consistency of heat and ease of estimation. But we sometimes salvage old charcoal after a local woods fire. It's kind of fun, you never know what the fire will uncover. Hey, I said I'm frugal.

Man, I feel your pain and I've felt many of the same things back when my son was still coming along in Scouts (he earned Eagle and later turned 18, Oh man, has it been six years ago?) The younger boys in your troop need to elect a different SPL, perhaps one of themselves who actually HAVE the skills. The adult leaders need to begin to support the actual program rather than the ad hoc thing they've created. The relationships between the adults that you described made me dizzy but then, it IS the SOUTH. Anyway, if you can stand the drive you're welcome in our unit and you'll find a quite different group. The couple of Eagles who haven't aged out are outstanding (awesome!) in their knowledge and leadership. The older boys, for the most part, are stepping up to their leadership responsibilities as well. And the younger boys are enthusiastic about earning their way up AND doing their best to outdo the older ones. I too have cringed at the way MBs are handed out without merit in many cases. This is one reason the SM and I restrict who the boy can work with as a counselor (especially when it comes to summer camp). The current crop of adult leaders are either seasoned and well-trained or they are eager to learn. It is a great unit. And I am thinking that I soon will no longer be needed. But if you can't make the drive, I'm guessing you're a couple of hours away, let our unit be an example that it doesn't have to be the way your unit is. There are two approaches: do the best you can to make it better and live with it, or look around and find a better unit. I really wish you the best.

Welcome to the forums Debbie, You'll notice quickly that there are many opinions, diverse ones, expressed in these forums. Keep your grains of salt handy. Our unit committee meetings are open to any members of the unit, not that anyone really cares. We'd be delighted to see that kind of interest in the parents and we'd probably have volunteer applications ready and waiting. I guess we'd welcome the public as well although I have no idea why anyone else would want to attend. But they'd probably be especially welcome if they brought snacks and other refreshments, hint, hint.

"Scooby, dooby doo" Hey I thought it was Frank Sinatra and 'Strangers in the Night'. And, BTW, I think playing golf is not athletic...I'm with Twain - it's a "good walk spoiled". Everyone is ready to pounce on everybody. Kind of like a game of tag. Just good fun.

OGE, thanks, that's a relief. Hope I don't put too much pressure on that love and respect quota. Gotta go now, something's smelling like burning sulfur.

Dreaded doublepost, sorry.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

A Scout pledges that he will continually search for the truths behind his own existence and his purpose for being. Furthermore, he understands and respects others who are attempting to do likewise. Hey, not bad, Rooster! Any chance we can throw something in there about the 'web of all existence'? OGE, did I commit some kind of sin? Gulp, I may have eaten a host.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

In the news I see we lost almost 160,000 jobs in September alone. A taste of things to come perhaps. Lisabob, If the price is too much, don't buy it. If you can't afford the commute to work, find closer work or don't work. It isn't a matter, necessarily, of a 'choice' to go cold turkey on anything. There may simply be no choice at all. The credit won't be available. I just heard a statistic that the average nest-egg for Americans is $50K. That a huge number of us have no savings whatsoever. Excuse me? We have the ability to choose all of the lifestyle things. If we don't have the money to support a family, we shouldn't have a family. Same for the big house, car, etc. The fact that we borrowed to 'have' those things simply means that either they must be paid for eventually, or else have them removed. Life style is going to change dramatically for Americans. There is no way to avoid it...and irresponsible to try to avoid it by borrowing more.

Wow, Trevorum, that link was just..how do I put it...delicious. I enjoyed the email responses, especially that one guy who thanked god he was an atheist. As long as you're pondering eating a few Lucky Charm guys, think about the gingerbread men, chocolate Santa Clauses, etc, that some of us have devoured. Wow, I could be accused of genocide! So, I always thought that the 'trans' part of transsubstantiation didn't occur until the cracker (wafer, whatever) had been swallowed. Am I wrong? From the article, it seems that the wafer (cracker, whatever) is considered human flesh BEFORE it's gobbled up by wayward students. This really worries me because a few years ago, more like 15 I guess, I bought a box of random nicknacks at an auction and in the box was one of the little round metal holders with about a half-dozen wafers stacked inside. I still have it. I had no idea what it was but a Catholic friend told me (incidentally, he didn't threaten me with prosecution or anything). So, just out of curiosity I ate one of the wafers. It was pretty much the same to me as matze...except not as filling - it was pretty small. Could have used some salt. Am I going to hell? Not that it matters to me, hell being just a myth and all. Just curious.

gwd, you're taking me way too seriously. OGE, your comment about 'debates' has been true for every one of these spectacles as long as I've been able to watch them on television. However, for every person like you or me, who can appreciate the quick, nimble mind it takes to respond and defend ideas on the run,...how many of our fellow Americans would merely be lost or confused by that kind of give and take? I'm not passing judgement here. I'm saying that I think the media HAVE made that kind of judgement and it isn't very charitable toward the public. And we, the public, by watching this stuff, support it. Edited part: Drat thsoe tpyos.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Why...Thanks, Rooster. The answer is yes. But BSA would need a superconducting supercollider or something to create a new metal. I suspect that'd probably be above their pay grade.

It's over. Palin mopped the floor with him. But is it a Republican thing, the inability to pronounce the word, 'nuclear'? Or is it really supposed to sound like 'new cooler'?

I agree with Rythos. Live within our means and in time the problem will solve itself. Really, there is no other way, even if this bill gets passed and we postpone the inevitable. Either we choose to take responsibility for our lives or sooner or later the system will force this upon us. Look, this is actually an opportunity. The fiscal crisis has presented us with a peek at a harsh reality and we have the opportunity to get it right. But we can't wait. We can't put this off with more 'voodoo economics'. Or...sadly, I guess we can.

Edited message: Here's a source. The author could be wrong. Just got it from a historian friend... cited in "Lenin, A Biography" by David Shub 1948. I'll check to make sure though. So what do you think about the legislation? Do you think it will fix anything? Why? or why not?(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

GW, yeah I've read those arguments in the blogs too. But what I DIDN'T write was that Lenin WROTE that quote. You've no way to determine whether or not he SAID it. Anyway, even the experts argue over it. I just used it for emphasis. ScoutMomSD, I am very sympathetic. Tell those guys I'll give them $20K for each of those properties, cash, sight unseen. Then I'll move my double-wide in and finish them myself. And YES, let the market take its toll on the surrounding properties. If they're not WORTH whatever value people think, the market will eventually determine a realistic value for them. It's part of the 'growing up' process. If people aren't willing to pay high rents, then the rents will come down. But high rents are indicative of people's willingness to pay them. Otherwise, they need to find a something they can afford, maybe move to Mississippi or Alabama, you can survive cheaply there. So, YES, it will be painful. There will be real harm to real people, some of whom did nothing to set this situation up. The market doesn't care about that. The market has no morality other than optimization of efficiency of transactions. The market has no sense of future or direction. It is cold and hard and that is the world we've chosen to have. And THAT is part of the payoff of the Faustian bargain we made. There is nothing that will make those consequences go away, except perhaps delaying them so they can happen to our children instead. Me, I'd rather see those who are responsible suffer the consequences.

I can't speak for Beavah, but I am resigned to this fate...and I am prepared for it, I think. But I will be as big an irritant over this mistake as I possibly can, if only to make people feel some pain and understand why something even worse is on the way and continued lies and self-deception is not going to make that disappear. As for McCain and Obama...I just saw estimates that the McCain tax plan will ultimately increase the national debt by an additional $5 Trillion, the Obama plan a mere $3.5 Trillion. People were deceived during the trickle-down days of the '80s like they are today. If lowering taxes generates increased revenue, then take them to zero...watch for the surpluses. That should solve all our debt problems. It's IDIOTIC. Beavah is right, what we're going to face is the opposite of what we had in hand near the end of 2000, a situation where we could actually pay down some debt, thus lowering, in real terms, the interest rates because there was more real capital available for loan. But I do disagree slightly about the price of oil. It may cost $200 per barrel someday and of that I have no doubt. But at that same time it may only cost 100 Euros or perhaps 80 roubles. On 26 October 2000 (during our surplus days) the Euro was worth $0.83. On 22 July this year it was worth $1.59. This was not simply due to the excellent economies of Europe. During the eight years of this administration, the profligate spending and growth of debt took a toll as well. What's that old quote? Lenin: "When the time is right we will make great concessions and overtures of peace to the capitalists and they will sell us the rope with which we will hang them." They don't need any help, we're hanging OURSELVES folks. Edited part: ScoutMomSD, there IS a solution. GROW UP and face the consequences! Let the market take its toll. Learn to live within our means. Pay our bills on time. Be responsible in our financial matters. Take responsibility for our mistakes. Teach these things to our children. We've failed miserably in these things so far and the passage of this bill will just be one more notch for another failure.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Wow, I think I'm beginning to grok humans.

Dr. Ilk here, Skeptic, I'm with Bob White on this. Shrug it off. Think of it as recreation, child's play. Or...jump in and save the thread with your sincere thoughts on the actual thread topic. I'd like to read them. OGE wrote: "Skeptic, I could close the thread which would only elicit future comments castigating and excoriating me for censorship and possibly inbuing the forum with my leftist liberal idealogy..." And you would deserve it too. At this point I'd call you a name but it might get censored so I'll just say that it rhymes with, "dopey poopy face". Ed, when I read your message to Bob White, No way I'll repeat that. Besides, how do you know he's not reading it?

From a market perspective, those of us who can swim may survive. Those of us who can't swim shouldn't. This is the payoff of the Faustian bargain and sooner or later it is unavoidable. I'd rather bear the burden myself now than have my children or their children bear an even heavier one.

I'll take door #2.

Valentine Michael Smith. Good book.