packsaddle

At one time I was interested in trying to take a group to Costa Rica or the Caribbean. And I started a thread on this forum to try to get ideas for funding and other things. Not much interest, I'm afraid, so I gave it up. I just go myself, as often as possible.

Yeah, I guess once I think about it, the local option is already happening for practical purposes. And yes, this CO sure takes a sit-back-and-let-it-ride approach, as I suspect most do. Maybe that aggressive CO is about as real as the bogeyman or something. I suspect there's one or two out there though - agressive COs, that is, the bogeyman has a name, Bernie Maddoff or something.

Yeah, that's the yin and the yang of the market, for sure. But it would allow aggressive COs to weed out those bad parents according to their customized weed-out criteria. There's no reason BSA can't have a regular corporate charter. The whole Congressional thing probably ought to go away, anyway. But that's off the subject. I'd like to sign up for one of those jackets! Any choice of colors? Purple? How about a rainbow theme? Something with fire and brimstone? Edited part: Oooo, I'm really getting into this. I can see leather for the jackets and motorcycle gangs called 'Bad Parents', NICE! Also Bad Parent tattoos, ouch! I mean this is really good!(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

I'll turn the other cheek and forgive Beavah's misunderstanding and comparison of science to religion. But Calico, I guess I'll likely be there to greet you, too, in that mythical place that doesn't really exist. I have to admit, the condemnation by my Methodist friend (when I told him my family is in a different faith) was a surprise when it happened. After reading the threads on this forum....what was I thinking? Later, the Baptist Church down the street announced that any of their members who are friends with members of my faith "...walk with Satan." My response when I heard this was...COOL! I guess that may have been the wrong end of the thermostat, though. Doesn't seem to bother the parents in this unit though, to know that Lucifer (another mythical figure that doesn't really exist) is one of the ASMs. You guys can just refer to me as Lucy from now on. That stuff rolls off my back too, as Father Reginald Foster says, it's just a lot of nonsense. But it did bother me when their children started taunting my children at school, saying that they're going to hell. My children were unprepared for this form of put-downs. They got over it...over the years...and also, with the help of those put-downs, recognize nonsense when they hear it. I think Trevorum's main point is correct. That kind of proselytizing action has no place in this unit. We have had Buddhist, Hindu, Janist, Jewish, UUs, and various flavors of Protestants over the years and most of the parents would find other accommodations if someone started pushing their own faith on the boys. But you know, if BSA allowed local option for membership policies, none of this would be a problem. The parents would make their market-based decisions and some units would thrive and others would be selected against. After all, as The Scout says, the purpose of religion is not to bring people together. Quite right! Nice quote...think it will go right into the collection.

Yeah, it's a long way from wondering how best to condemn a boy who is experimenting with religous ideas. But I'm with you on that wilderness path, Eagle1977. And I agree with your opinion regarding Descartes. Moreover, although it seems that in later pages on this thread, religious pedantics (???I think that's the term that was thrown out earlier???) are demonstrating for the umpteenth time how religion tends to bring us all together..NOT!!! I nevertheless would caution that faith may not the actual source of the disagreements or deaths that you mention. I think Bronowski had a good point - that these conflicts have their genesis when men believe they possess absolute knowledge...and even then it probably merely facilitates hateful tendencies. But those who do think they possess the absolute truth have a really convenient basis to reduce others to objects as well as to rationalize their elimination. I wish I could understand what IS the source of that sociopathy. I'm afraid we're going to have to live with it, probably forever.

"So how do you convince people of what the truth is?" Father Reginald Foster, Senior Vatican Priest, "You don't, forget it, you just have to..you just have to live and die with their stupid ideas." I really like Father Reginald.

I lack the necessary gut symbionts to be a good termite.

I've tried everything I can but I can't get this site to display the Greek alphabet. I tried.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Father Foster, Vatican Priest, referring to the Bible: "these are all nice stories, you know." Father Reginald Foster, Vatican Latin scholar. So, are you a young earth creationist? Here, listen for yourself if you dare: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewTuAeMJbDs (This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Actually it was only about 350 years that Galileo had to burn in hell or something. Small price to pay for truth, I'd say, especially since hell is just myth. But a more important turnaround (if you want to call it that) came with the more recent embrace of evolution by the Catholic Church. Nice.

"Jesus knew exactly what would happen before He did or said anything." Hence mere mortals should not attempt this approach. If what you say is true then what is the difference between this story and a parlor trick where the magician has a secret way to make something appear to be what it isn't? I thought the lesson was one of Jesus's wisdom in guiding the men to see the right thing to do. Apparently not. I definitely do not understand the Bible the way you do. "all people have sinned and deep down we all know it, whether we choose to admit it on the surface or not." What is your evidence that you can make this claim for every person on the planet? What makes you omniscient? "The woman mentioned was caught in the act of adultery and by Jewish law she was to be stoned. They where not so much acting out of hate but rather taking vengence in accordance to the law." I guess that makes it all rightily dightily then.

ScoutMomSD, that story has always bothered me. Yes, the gambit worked this time, the time that actually made it into print. However, if Jesus had been standing in front of a group of men covered with pointed white hoods and white sheet robes and it had been a black man instead of a woman, I suggest the outcome might not have provided the same moral. Jesus's gamble included several components including the assumptions that the men had consciences, that they HAD sinned, and that they THOUGHT that they were not without sin. If any of those assumptions had been violated, the woman was toast because Jesus only placed the restriction the FIRST stone, not the ones that followed. Thus Jesus gave his (albeit conditional) blessing for the men to go right ahead and stone that woman to death if they THOUGHT they met the conditions. He didn't condemn stonings outright.

"Pack, you are the man, dude." Are you calling ME the devil now? Hey, I'm flattered by the suggestion that I could have that much power but 'fraid not. 'Fallen angel', perhaps...maybe 'lost soul'...or some other mythical metaphor...but not the angel of darkness, what-ev-er. Probably best thought of as someone who sees forks in the trail and tries all of them to see where they go. (that's forks in the tRail, not tail)

OGE, it isn't your place to apologize for anyone other than yourself and none is needed as far as I'm concerned. However, there are some who seem bound to impose their personal rigid interpretations and faith on everyone else (worse yet, on the boys) and who seem intolerant of any alternate views. You are not one of those persons and I hope that you do not feel like you are the target of the ridicule.

In this council, it is up to the families to decide where they want to camp. Nothing about flush toilets mentioned as I remember. The whole idea behind a family campout is that it is a 'FAMILY' campout. They decide the food, the site, the gear, etc., and whether or not to go. Not the council.

I can't vouch for that toothy curmudgeon, but for me it helps to keep in mind that most of the time I have a twinkle in my eye.

Dan, Dan. How many times do I have to write it before it sinks in. The devil is a myth (and lots of other things, too). By any other name (Satan? Lucifer? the Pope?) it's all still myth. So please set your troubled mind at ease, secure in the knowledge that you could never be the Devil incarnate. (I might have to rethink this in the case of one of my old girlfriends, and her minister told her so as well! But she WAS fairly intriguing.) Besides, if there really were things such as devils and demons, etc. and one flapped down on his scaly wings and waddled into my office, I'd just tell him to kiss my bony butt. And you know I'd never say that to you. Edited to add: Trevorum, I agree with regard to UUs. It's so difficult to be smug when immersed in uncertainty.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Dan, It's possible that you might go right ahead with an ill-conceived, disastrous, Bay of Pigs invasion?

Lisa, hypothetically speaking of course, if you reported to some child protective agency that you knew of parents who are raising their children to eat human flesh and drink human blood on a frequent basis as part of a religious ritual, what do you think the reponse would be?

I was pleased, a while back, to learn that I am not the only person who dislikes popcorn. To me the stuff is repulsive to the point of nearly wretching at the thought. It smells like animal urine and tends to make everything else smell the same way. Have a nice day. Anyway, after years of selling and eating Corbi pizza for band fundraisers, I tend to put pizza-in-general about one notch above popcorn. Today, if I have to feed some students (and I plan to tomorrow) I order the pizzas from the cheapest place possible knowing that students' mal-developed palates will allow them to bolt pretty much anything placed in front of them. And I will politely eat one slice...pretending to sacrifice the remainder of my share for their sake...and secure in the knowledge that I have preserved both my sense of camaraderie as well as my culinary integrity.

"What if he decides through reason to be a anti-semetic national socialist. What then?" For one thing, he could have a lot of fun on the scouter.com forums. "Like I said you can't let a child decide anything he/she wants?" You really think you have that kind of control over thought? Raise some children and then think again. "If you believe there is only one right way, why wouldn't you teach their child that right away to ensure they don't make the wrong decision." Assuming this is still about religion, there are two answers I can think of: first, it's only your BELIEF - it isn't any of your business to go against the parents in matters of faith, and second; at least in these parts, you might not want to have that resulting confrontation with the parents...for health reasons. Trev, Jesus was a communist...at least that's what I believe, probably the original communist but seeing as how movable print hadn't been invented, and he didn't have much interest in politics, the honor for the idea went to someone else much later. In fact I have seen plenty of guys who looked just like Jesus in the commune. Weren't many virgins though, at least not that I could find....you know - in some ways Jesus had it pretty good come to think of it. Edited part: "so yes Jewish parents that don't teach there children about Jesus are bad parents." Wow, how did I manage to miss this one!? I guess at first I read it and laughed...something that absurdly intolerant HAD to be crude sarcasm or perhaps satire. But then I thought to myself...'where do I live?' And I realized that this was not sarcasm but rather the way a lot of people really think (term used loosely). Trev, as you say...(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Yeah, been there, done most of that. Too bad you don't live nearby. I bought an Empire turntable in great condition and take it directly into my computer via a really nice interface that allows more kinds of editing than I will ever need (cost wasn't an object back then). And I also have one of those quickie converter turntables (an Ion) for the odd need for a quick fix. I've been converting some really nice old 78s and plan to start work on the vinyl again later. Good hobby, but it helps to have friends with large collections. Yeah, I know this isn't the point of the thread but others have already given good answers.

There are no miracles, natural laws are not violated, and I have not been optimistic since Bush turned fiscal responsiblity and our nation's ideals on its head. And I'm not optimistic now.

Calico, thanks for responding. I was hoping you'd write a few things. I understand how Beavah feels and that is all I can say. I'm done here.