packsaddle

Asm411, I sympathize. Some jerk broke into our house and stole, among other things, my Lionel train.

While the toothy rodent and the outlaw go at it, I'll comment on something else. "As a conservative, I don't see LNT as a Liberal issue." And I agree. It is a fine example of true conservativism. Trouble is, and people on all sides of politics are susceptible to this, if you disagree with something the last thing you tend to do is identify with it. And then, "Yeh don't have to worry a lick about a bear hearin' a patrol of Boy Scouts even if they're tryin' to be quiet." THAT's for SURE! One of my favorite song adaptations goes like this, (you have to imagine the voice of Julie Andrews here): The hills are alive, with the sounds of boy scouts.....

Wow, Acco, too bad those kids weren't all carrying guns - no one would have been hurt. "I'm 100% born and bred Yankee (damnyankee to my southern friends)..." jblake47, I must inform you that if you are in Wisconsin you are not considered a 'damnyankee'. For THAT you must come to the South and STAY.

My thanks to Scouter760, I had not known that before. I also agree with Nike about this, especially considering what Scouter760 just revealed. As for those who are in denial regarding 'the flag' in whatever manifestation it has, the KKK members I have known would disagree with you regarding symbolism. THEY made it quite clear what 'the flag' symbolized and embraced it as THEIR symbol. The few neo-Nazis I've met felt the same way, not to mention those acquaintances of mine who have merely been open racists (a couple of them still fly it in their front yard - ABOVE the American flag). They all agree that 'the flag' is a symbol of their beliefs and political views. You might think it symbolizes something wonderful and pure. You are free to have your illusions. I don't share them. Edited for John-in-KC: My friend, it is a good thing to understand history. But I remind you and others that there are NO MEMORIES of the Civil War. Those are long dead. The only thing remaining is whatever lore we choose to think about and adopt, for whatever reason. Also, to respond to Kahuna, my family had members on both sides. My father's family was more prominent with highly placed officers for the Union...but I was raised in the South and my grandmother had portraits of Davis and Lee hanging in her house. It made for some interesting conversations. And I agree with you...the South fired the first shot and then suffered the consequences. Not exactly a monument to intelligence, was it?(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

I've managed to keep mine for over 45 years, along with my original OA pin, sash, God and Country, and all the NRA marksmanship medals. I might be an above average packrat though.

It is nothing but a piece of cloth. Dispose of it in a manner that does not harm the environment or recycle it. If you must burn it, just wad it up and throw it in.

Beautiful video, Brent. Too bad at the age of 35 he left a fatherless daughter. Regarding the guy in the North Cascades, that is a great way to go but to me, 70 is still a bit early.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

"...but it's a silly straw man, eh?" Yep, heard that one back then too. Blast from the past.

Beavah, I think the point is that the same words that you just wrote to promote a pragmatic approach were also used to promote something that "Left us with a long term tragic legacy that's hard to overcome."

I was once informed by the Voter Registrar at the county courthouse that in North Carolina, a person could not vote if they didn't believe in God. Does that count? (let's see, as I remember that was in 1975)

Nolesrule, I sympathize. While the version Beavah just posted is the interpretation that most of us came up with during YPT, the trainer and the DE both insisted that our interpretation was wrong and that the SE should be contacted in ALL cases. They even insisted that the SE be contacted BEFORE the other authorities in each case. I think we decided to ignore the trainer and DE do it the way that makes sense...but obviously, it's easy to be confused by all this.

I think Calico has it right. When one group has enjoyed a privilege for a long time, and when circumstances change to cause them to lose that privilege, they will probably cry, "unfair!" But in this case, BSA sought to establish their status as a private religious organization, knowing that this status would jeopardize many of the things BSA has taken for granted in the past. BSA did it anyway. Whining about the results won't change things.

"I will observe LNT as far as fires and cooking and the reast goes, but clothing and equipment? I want to be seen" OGE, As Dr. Lazarus on Galaxy Quest observed of Commander Taggart, "Oh right, of course... It's always about YOU, isn't it?!"

You buddies can just pick up my bleached bones if you can find them. Or you can just kick them aside.

flames(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Hal, On a humorous note (and with Darwin awards in mind) if you don't have a buddy along, you are unlikely to drawl the famous last words, "Hey, watch this!"

There's risk and then there's risk. Foolhardy, I think falls into the second category. I used to go caving with some truly insane persons. They'd see a hole filled with water and if there was any motion to it at all they'd shuck themselves headfirst into that hole to see if it opened up in another room or something. THAT was risky. However, most of the time they'd go in until they reached the point of no return and then they'd back out. Once in a while, so I was told, one of them would keep going on the 'assumption' that he'd hit an air pocket or that other room. Now THAT was foolhardy. Fortunately I never had to help retrieve a dead body. And after a sobering experience going into a cave alone, I never did it alone again.

If I was a spider I might let one go but I think I'll keep my left arm, thank you. It's the only left arm I have.

Lisabob, I guess we're lucky about the manners thing. The boys in this unit are, for the most part, well-mannered. Some of them say "sir" and "m'am" and don't interrupt, for example. I have to say this is also true for the college students. Most of them exhibit great respect and I think this is not out of fear. I did have one, this semester, who was addicted to the cell phone. I inform them at the first class that every lecture they miss will cost them about half a letter grade. And that texting during class is the same thing as missing a lecture. After the first exam those who missed that point at the beginning understand it clearly. But it's easier when the leader has full control and not quite as direct when the boys are running things. As I said, I guess we're lucky that way.

The Fair Tax is not exactly a sales tax although it is often described in those terms. If you don't consume, you don't pay. However, it is a tax that is embedded in the price of any good or service, not tacked on afterwards. The value is taxed as the good is produced, and recovered through the sale. Anyone, churches, businesses, charities, everyone who ever purchases anything, books, paper, a new sanctuary, would pay this imbedded tax on whatever they purchased. There is a 'prebate' to take care of those below the poverty level. Take a look at this: http://www.fairtax.org This does away with the IRS, and a huge amount of wasteful bureaucracy, not to mention essentially putting tax policy in the hands of individuals rather than politicians. Loopholes would be gone. Each person would be paid with no withholding and if they didn't purchase anything they wouldn't pay any tax. It is a 'fair' way for people to take control through their day-to-day commerce.

"...how do you implement LNT principles in your unit?" With great difficulty. Unsuccessfully. Incrementally. Ok, that last one was the only one that was useful. There's just no way to go 'cold turkey' on the things like fires, food, and latrines all at the same time. So we work on the little things at first while we're still in 'traceable' areas. So far, I think we've always left some sort of trace although we came very close to no trace on a couple of really outstanding outings. So my best answer is not to expect immediate success but just keep chipping away.

Hal, we don't ban GPS units. We just don't have much use for them. On a backpack trip, you have an actual trail and unless someone can't read a map, it's fairly foolproof. A GPS is just dead weight - it won't even tell you a direction unless you're moving. But I HAVE seen French presses and the like. Go figure. But then, you should take what I write with some caution, I've been told that I'm a neo-Luddite.

Me, I confess. I'm a carper. At least I think so. I could be wrong. I was in a minority view during the years when I worked to promote civil rights. And the minority forced itself on the majority. We won! And now I feel so....guilty. Of course if I'm NOT really a carper, someone please tell what I need to do to get that label slapped on me. OK, I'm sitting here, bored, watching students take one of my finals. I'm allowed to have a little fun, right? Another hour to go, yawn. Oops, just read HICO's post: if that's so then churches etc. need to pay for the services they get at taxpayer expense. I'm all for elimination of ALL tax deductions and going for the Fair Tax. That will eliminate a lot of those freeloading organizations or else make them pay as they go.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

As I understand it, Davy Crockett was once asked if he'd ever been lost. He said 'no' but he HAD been "a might bewildered" a few times. Made a bad choice on that Alamo thing, though.

Curious, I'd like to add my "welcome to the forums" as well. I appreciate the fact that you distinguished 'sinners' from gays and atheists. I'd also like to note that BSA has, in the past, made an offer to at least one atheist to reinstate them if they changed their mind on the subject of God. BSA evidently is ready to reverse themselves if a person is willing to change in that manner. I suppose that means that BSA might be willing to reinstate the drunk once he's paid the fine. Would you feel good about that? I wouldn't. But I admit, it's a personal thing with me. I'm usually more forgiving than this. As far as visiting iniquities, there's also a passage that contradicts the one I mentioned in Ezekial 18:20. But when I look at earlier versions of the Bible, it's all Greek to me, yuk, yuk. Sorry, couldn't resist.