packsaddle

I understand that the Secret Service paid him a visit. Maybe this will remove some of his illusions.

Is this like killing commies for Christ? I heard that a lot way back when. Sometimes I heard, in church, all sorts of violent ideas directed toward infidels of 'different' sorts. http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/08/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5294157.shtml You can get a link to listen to it on this website. Remember, "The purpose of religion isn't to bring people together."

The only time something like this happened to us that I can remember, we clearly had the reservation for the site and the other party had the site. But it was the park people who screwed up, not the other party. There was only one group site so at first the rangers said we had to split up all over the place. I noted the need for adult supervision, the rangers took one look and one listen at the boys, and then came up with a good alternative. No hard feelings. In the end it worked out better for us.

Vol, According to the IMF, the per capita purchasing power for Mexico ranks 54th, behind Botswana. The World Bank ranks them 45th after Gabon, and the CIA ranks them 63rd. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita Comparing GDP alone does not account for per capita differences. But you already knew that, didn't you? A person in one country who considers immigrating legally or illegally will not make the decision based on GDP but rather on a very personal per capita basis.

Yep, you're right on with SC's place in USA history. Like I said, a history of incivility. If you want to really have some fun, read about 'Pitchfork' Ben Tillman as well.

I agree with Shortridge. Just do your best and don't depend on a DE for anything. I was trying to hold an old pack together and build it back to some state of health. The DE allowed another very strong pack to contact our parents to try to recruit them over to their pack. At the same time the DE started up a new pack at another church, taking some of our recruits. He seemed completely clueless about how this was impacting an existing pack that was trying to rebuild. It was almost as if he wanted the pack to fail. So I have never had any further use for any DE as a result. They're there and I can't stop that. But I don't trust them.

Ed, when I was a boy I used to hear racists invoke similar 'solutions'. I think it was along about the time when the white South was switching to the Republican Party. I suspect that native Americans must have entertained similar thoughts at some time.

Lisa took the words out of my fingers, LOL. I was thinking exactly about that statement by Lyndon Johnson. It was one of the most revealing statements he ever made, showing that he did understand the fundamental force driving politics in the South AND that he decided to do the right thing anyway. Anyway, he was right. It did shift party politics for 'some' of the South. Whereas the entire South had been essentially Democrat prior to that, after Johnson signed the Act, the 'white' South moved to the Republican Party. Those elements are still there and the 'black' South still knows it. So I think Lisa is correct in her assertion that the values spoken of by Vol are primarily those relating back to the 60s and the issues from that time. I don't think of them in 'liberal' versus 'conservative' terms, though. 'Inclusive' versus 'hateful' seems more like it whereas concepts like 'freedom' should be embraced by everyone.

Canada. Boats. Short of the Berlin Wall, show me the fence that has really worked. Impossible, I agree with Beavah.

You know, if I knew I was in another country illegally there is no way I'd try to VOTE in their elections. That seems like one of the dumbest things any illegal alien could do. There's huge risk and no benefit. I'm trying to figure out why anyone would do that, no matter how stupid they were. Edited in response to Brent: I guess I just don't think in criminal terms. Maybe that's why women always used to dismiss me as a Boy Scout. (This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Actually, I think Beavah has responded more strongly to Wilson than Obama did. Obama has been very calm in all this. I just heard that a MP who called Margaret Thatcher a liar was thrown out of Parliament, then re-entered, called her a liar again, and was thrown out again. The response to Wilson was far more subdued in comparison.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gVVujKcSD5hoS9sYwghNh3Xqmf1gD9AKK4MO0 From the above web site, "THE FACTS: The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Illegal immigrants could buy private health insurance, as many do now, and they could also buy into a new government-run insurance plan if Congress creates one. But unlike legal residents, they wouldn't get federal subsidies to help them. The bill's exact language: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully in the United States.""

The President wasn't lying. Wilson's outburst was in response to parts of the bill that have been struck down previously. The bill now explicitly prohibits federal funding for persons not legally in the US. If he was really that interested, Wilson should have known this.

Beavah, I guess the flippant way to respond would be to explain the event with two words, "South Carolina". That state has a history of incivility but I suppose that might be true for a few others as well. But if you take a close look at the history of the South and South Carolina in particular, you'll see evidence that the culture lends itself to this sort of thing by design. Especially for South Carolina where the plantation culture, transplanted from Barbados during early colonization, was perpetuated into political structures and conventions that exist even today...originally to make sure that a black people cannot have controlling power. Today it ensures that the legislative body, as chaotic as it is, controls political and governmental power. Trouble is, while this system might have also cultivated an educated elite to occupy those seats at one time, today education and civility are somehow looked upon with suspicion or perhaps even disdain. Where else can a popular governor bring a pig into the legislature, dominated by his own party, and allow it to crap on the floor of the statehouse as a demonstration of his contempt for them? Where else...this could go on. But the end result is that the people chose Wilson as their representative. I suspect he guaranteed re-election last night.

Oh, I give up. You guys aren't gettin' it. Political parties are there to remove the public's choice in elections. In the old days (what, 40 years ago? LOL) the Democratic Party was the ONLY party in the South. The people thought they were 'electing' someone in the general election but in fact they were merely confirming the decisions that had been made earlier in a backroom someplace. The Party had made the decision for them long before, when they decided who would be on the ticket. No way they could risk leaving these decisions up to the people. Now, it still works the same way in the South, only the Republican Party has taken over. Without the political intelligentsia and the best minds the Party can attract, how could the 'little people' make good decisions on who to elect? Without the political elite and genius of the Party, the real power might go to the rabble who are not the social and political elite, and the elections might, for example, produce governors who....oops, what am I saying, it happens anyway!

What? No confederate flag?

"Just because the current leadership of the two major political parties are liars, cheats, theives, pond scum sucking bottom feeding maggots..." In spite of the fact that this is going to be another of those politics threads that merely wastes time, I must defend a few things - namely pond scum, bottom feeders, and maggots. I feel that it is unfair and certainly inaccurate to use these in pejorative comparisons. First of all, pond scum can be some of the most interesting ecological communities to study with great diversity and high-intensity processes. Bottom feeders perform an essential function and some of us find them to be quite tasty (except if they eat too much pond scum they taste like, well, pond scum). Maggots are, let's face it...babies. OK, they're fly babies but I'm sensing some right-to-life hypocrisy here. Maggots also perform an essential function and in some cases can actually help the healing process in humans. They can also be eaten in the form of maggots (stir fried is good) or in the later pupal stage in which case they're more like rice crispies, only without the snaps and crackles. These can be steamed and used just like sunflower seeds on salads, for example. Yum.

A couple of years later and I've still never seen the knot. So I guess I'll have to try to get one and start wearing it. Here goes...

The irony is that you just DID spin a new thread...successfully. When I've had this problem in the past, it was because I had an illegal character in the title somewhere. Could that be the problem for yours as well?

The opposite argument is equally valid. The people of MA, considering the notoriety and publicity surrounding Ted Kennedy, had a very good idea of who they were electing and did it with very good knowledge. Moreover, they re-elected time again thus demonstrating that they thought he was effective as their representative. You might not agree with the people's decision but they made it. As for passing judgement, that is inevitable. And whether we express it or how we express it is up to the individual's own judgement. Others are then free to judge them. First amendment. Nice.

On this topic, I find agreement with Beavah (where have you been, you toothy furball?). I would only add that I try not to think in confusing terms like 'conservative' or 'liberal' but rather in meaningful terms like 'honest' or 'dishonest'. To me the fundamental basis of greed, and so many other human failings, is personal dishonesty or self-deception, which then cascades out to all those around us. Just my view. I hope the current policies solve our problems but I'm still not optimistic.

I can explain all of human behavior, Ted Kennedy's, ours, the boys', in three words. We Are Monkeys. Have a nice day.

I've never used the function. I consider it to be rude, even to someone who is annoying or worse. If I really want to ignore them, I could just skip their post and go on. But I don't think I ever have.

Thanks, that takes care of some confusion for me.

I'm not sure what you mean by the 'scientist excuse'. I mentioned science only as it applies to rational explanations. As Augustine said, faith has no purpose except to transcend reason. So I grant you that within absolute faith, any belief is possible. Those beliefs are not rational, however. I could just as easily ask, "what's with the faith excuse?" for your failure to explain anything. "...plenty of scientist believe in miracles." I grant you that there are individuals who engage in scientific investigation who profess to 'believe in' miracles. However the moment they invoke the miraculous they are engaging in something other than scientific investigation.