packsaddle

re: cutting into sex life, tell that to Warren Jeffs or Winston Blackmore. But your point is well-taken. It could be the reason for the Southern Baptists to place a renewed emphasis on 'submission' by wives.

Unless something has changed recently, there are no hormones used in poultry production: http://www.plamondon.com/faq_myths.html this is just one of many similar links. Now if you were concerned about antibiotics and Salmonella or something like that, THAT would be a different matter.

The troop is on a long trip and we've stopped for a quick breakfast at a fast food place. Some of the boys are being mischievous, shooting food at each other through straws or sticking the straws up their noses, etc, that kind of thing. (We're going to clean up the place afterward) Across the room two girls, about the same age, with their mothers, are watching. Their faces, all of them, express horrified fascination. I'm in uniform and I mosey over to speak to them. They don't take their eyes off the boys. I smile and say 'good morning' to them and ask permission from the mothers to say a few words to their girls. The mothers nod weakly, perhaps with a little trepidation and I lean over to the girls. I tell them. "I want you to remember this...someday you're probably going to marry one of those." The moms snort coffee out their noses and the girls have stunned looks. My day is complete.

Skeptic, you take a book by Hitchens, say, or Dawkins...and hold it really close to your face.

That is a great article, NJ. I confess I was surprised to see pop-up ads for 'The Economist'...interesting. I have met Inglis and I've followed his political path for quite a while. To me it's ironic that the same anti-semitic, etc. political forces/strategy that swept his party (and eventually him) into the majority in the South has now done to him exactly what he thinks could happen to party leaders. Even more ironic that it all got started in his district - a long, long time ago.

...and I'm rooting for you to be 'The Good'. Moreover, I'm good with dispensing with the 'hot button' words as well. So I'll say 'it' one last time by noting that socialism seems to work really well for some insects. (This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Did those lowly privates split their infinitives?

Basementdweller, my view is that it's structure is closer to Soviet or Chinese communism than socialism. Most scouters seem to disagree. Lisa, with regard to quality, I see this as something that government can only accomplish in a ham-handed, often inadequate way...coming from the direction of government. To really get schools to be high quality requires that the demand come from the community, with or without the government - and with community investment to back up their demands. Moreover, as I've written before, the investment is not merely $$$ but also time, participation, interest by parents and community leaders, AND, yes, debate with school and government leaders if needed. In this model, if the families and community are invested well, the school becomes an extension of the 'home-schooling' idea - with education starting as an ethic taught first in the home and extended to the community, using the schools as tools to extend the educational opportunities for the families. In this way the school becomes an integral part of the family as well as the community and helps link the families to the community through the shared educational process. At least that's how it works here. The local private schools are not doing very well (except for Montessori) - some have closed and some are struggling with declining enrollments. Home-schooling is rare. But the students at the public schools are doing quite well, well-prepared for college or other directions in life. Not all families take advantage of these opportunities but the ones who do demand it and take advantage of it make those opportunities available for everyone. The entire community benefits along with the individual students and their families.

Ed, I can partly see your point. Public schools could be viewed as enabling or providing the 'example(s)' for the lessons. BUT, for example, when child and parent(s) are told by the school officials that they are 'entitled' to free breakfast and lunch, when they are told that they are 'entitled' to free access to books and other learning resources, this is a lesson to both student AND family that they are 'entitled' to something provided by the government. It is a very short step from this to their 'expectation' of the services and goods for 'free' as part of 'their' entitlement. Bando, public schools are 'owned' by the government. They are staffed by government employees. Citizens must conform to government regulations in order to attend. The costs are borne by the entire tax-paying population, not just those who 'use' the schools. Is this concept clearer now? What is it about public schools that you think contradicts the 'socialist' claim? Please keep in mind that I strongly support public education and that the schools in my area are outstanding by most measures.

Beavah, While I tend to agree with the statement, I wonder if your reasoning is the same. So...please explain your reasoning?

Again I am reminded of that wonderful quote. "The purpose of religion isn't to bring people together." That said, I am sympathetic to Beavah's front end comments about train wrecks and politically and emotionally-charged topics. As for that sin stuff...back to religion I guess - it seems to support Trevorum's claim. "The 5% was taken from Packsaddle's hypothetical." I can't seem to find where I introduced any hypotheticals whatsoever...vol_scouter, you lost me on that one.

". . . and I should discount this? http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/FastFacts-MSM-FINAL508COMP.pdf" Heavens NO!!! You should always wear a condom when you have sex with other men. Good Grief!

I've done this MB with boys before and I don't remember that 8-hour part. I might have overlooked it or just forgotten but we did the 50-miler fairly easily within the 6 hour time frame, the two boys who actually completed the MB stopped when they thought they needed to and took a nice lunch break at a park. We had a lot of fun and in fairly hilly terrain at that. One boy broke his chain on one steep climb and we did a roadside repair. One rest break on the side of the road had a local member of a hunting club yelling at the boys not to stop on the side of the road at that location (within the right-of-way) or he'd "take action". Nice guy. We moved on. But we had some good laughs later on. It's doable either way.

Welcome to the forums! Old Indian is good. This unit has enjoyed it many times. Rainey Mountain is another you should consider, not too far from Clayton, GA. It's smaller but also a nice choice, and near a lot of potential high adventure activities.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Hello Julie, There are plenty of these at various sources on the internet. A google search will probably turn them up and you'll probably get some specific suggestions from others on this forum. Here is one place to begin looking: http://www.eaglescout.org/ But I encourage the boy and his family to feel free to create the ceremony in whatever format suits them. He can think of it as one more opportunity to demonstrate leadership. It is his and their show and they should not feel constrained by tradition or past performances. The ones I've participated in (about 30 of them) have used a quite a few variations and I have always either written or heavily edited my own script when I've been asked to speak, in order to try to personalize it for each young man and his family. I have never seen a 'wrong' or 'unsuccessful' ceremony.

I once saw Nixon in the flesh, many years ago. He still looked like a potato. Back to my hole....

Come on down anyway! There are plenty of rats and I'll still be in the South for about half the year or so. This new position is mostly going to be during the 'high' research seasons (summer and spring). There are some wonderful places to consider near my home if you're serious - considerably warmer than you in the winter and still nice in the summer: Brevard, NC; Hendersonville, NC; Flat Rock, Cullowhee, Boone, Murphy, plenty of others as well. Of course there's Highlands and Cashiers (kind of high $$$). This is just in NC. If you want to be even warmer there are plenty of great places in GA and SC, still nestled next to the Blue Ridge. However, and this is just something to think about...there's a decent-sized ex-pat community on the island, mostly Brits and Canadians. So here's a Citizenship in the Country question: What impediments are there to prevent a former colony, say Massachusetts or New Jersey, from joining the Commonwealth? I've often wondered....

Vicki, that consideration alone might get me to the internet cafe once in a while...don't despair! OneHour, yeah for this unit that 'old timer' factor has bugged me for a while. My goal in staying with the unit had been to help with a transition and provide some continuity in leadership... but I had that done 5 years ago. Time to step aside and make room for some others. Gern, anyone who hiked with me a short distance up the Point Multre River to discover Victoria Falls, or down the Boeri River to Middleham Falls would, as we round the bend, see our destination - and then swim in their idyllic pools, KNOW that we had been taken by rapture.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Hey, I'm not going anywhere for a little while yet, we're still working on details. Plus, you guys sound like you're attending a wake or something although I do appreciate the good thoughts. I'll try to torment you for at least a little while longer. Here's the really interesting part, a whole bunch of my superannuated scouts are now in college and some of them might be coming with me for coursework now and then. Nice. Here's a little something to tease: http://dominica.dm/site/videogallery1.cfm (Lisa, you were correct) As soon as I have the web site up and running I'll give you the link. I'm sincere about the invitation. As for the suggestions about scouting on the island...I've already thought of that. Here's the thing. The country really is so raw and natural, children there are LIVING the life that we want our guys to experience here. Words cannot describe.

Not the term I've been thinking...'feisty'. Yeah, that's it, 'feisty'. Like a Jack Russell with an old shoe. Fun to watch and a great excuse to buy a new pair. Edited part: Heck, this is as good a place as any. Looks like my scouting days are about over. I just got offered a job I can't refuse. Wow, I can hardly believe my luck! Anyway, I'll be spending a lot of time in beautiful exotic places and living among many beautiful exotic people...and not killing them. But that pretty much puts the end to my time available for the troop so I guess I'll reduce the BSA membership by one as of next registration. (In case anyone is wondering, it has nothing whatsoever to do with any BSA policy ) This has been in the works for a while now and I was afraid that it really WAS too good to be true. But it happened today. If any of you guys ever make it to the nature island of the Caribbean, drop me a line. I'll stay registered here just in case...and I'll probably lurk for a while as well....kind of like that Dave Steele guy who thinks everyone forgot about him while he watches these threads... but I didn't forget. Hear that, Dave? Ya'll play nice now. Wooohooo!(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

...a very Christian thing... and Presbyterian, especially, in particular. I mean, all that forgiving our debts as we are forgiving our debtors...really. Gotta hand it to 'em, at least they're honest about it. As Rush Limbaugh (a.k.a. Mammon) says, "It's all about money". So true, so true.

Hey, I can answer those for you: What does it take to lead a good life? Complete honesty What IS a good life? One that does as little harm as possible while being as constructive as possible. What does God want from us? Whatever (he/she/it) wants. 'It' seems to be a moving target - changes with each of our actions. and even Is there a God? If you think so then there is, in your own mind. That is sufficient for billions of believers...unless you're not certain there IS a god. In that case you're agnostic. Why are we here? To outperform the market. Back to the search...I know I left that thing around here somewhere...

Again I am reminded of the statement by The Scout, "the purpose of religion is not to bring people together." And religion seems very effective at NOT doing it. The basis for these concerns is that faith is inevitably a completely personal aspect of life for each of us. As such it ought to be under the influence and control of each of us individually, along with our families (especially for youth) and the CO (with regard to the unit). On the contrary, BSA is bent on maintaining a common, centralized policy. This kind of centralized control inevitably conflicts with individual freedoms and individual choice. These things should be obvious. What is less obvious is that another source for this conflict (and the centralized policy) is the desire by some of us to maintain a status quo that used to exist by default: the dominance of Christianity over all other minority faiths in BSA. This condition cannot be sustained without the risk of alienating minority faiths that BSA would like to have as members in order to keep up membership numbers. As Trevorum noted a long time ago, the times - they are changing. Christianity remains the majority faith in this country and it still pervades the lives of all of us. But if we want to reduce these conflicts, the ONLY way to do it is to leave matters of faith to the CO's, the families, and the individuals. To try to 'manage' aspects of faith in any other matter denies the truth that religion is not going to bring people together and especially NOT at the hands of a faceless committee in the centralized power structure of a corporation.

"And if the lad is not trustworthy or morally straight, what value does a written behavioral contract have? People who aren't trustworthy or straight violate contracts all the time." I agree. This is impeccable logic. "A scoutmaster is a mentor, and a mentor is like a parent. We don't write contracts with our kids. We don't hand 'em books of policies. We behave like adults who believe in things, and have da courage of our convictions. That's how they grow up to have character and courage themselves." Again agreed. "Yeah, there's a lot of us who can say 'there but for the grace'..." Got THAT right! Thinking back to those yearbooks with the X mark on the aerial photo of the school saying "Drop bomb here" - Back then it was a joke to everyone. Today who knows, it might bring in homeland security. I'm thinking about the honor student who recently lost his scholarships and admissions to college because he was temporarily unencumbered by the thought process - he made one of those drink bottle 'bombs' and took a big hit for it. I add that I also agree with the 'constant vigilance' comment, the watchful eye of an adult mentor. It helps to take the time to really get to know the boys, each of them individually, if you can. After a while, for some of them, I can tell just by the way they carry themselves that they might be on the way to making a thinking error of some kind - some kind of mischief (most often involving matches and fireworks). But it helps to watch their 'mood' and behavioral patterns. You can sometimes tell when something out of the ordinary is going on. Sometimes it's good to just have a friendly chat...they'll tell you what's on their mind. One thing I like about children is that they haven't yet developed enough guile, usually, to hide their lies. We've had situations that involved drugs outside of scouting activities and in each case the troop and the families in the troop understood that there is little to be gained at this age, by thoughtless condemnation and incarceration. This might even be one of the best things that can happen, as a matter of fact, if the child is young enough. A boy who makes a really bad decision gets caught - and then learns: 1) that the community really cares about him and 2) there are serious consequences for these kinds of bad decisions, and 3) PTI is a chance for him to wise up and demonstrate to the community that their faith in him was not misplaced. I have often said that sometimes a child can be put onto the right track by making a mistake like this early enough that the damage is not permanent. They can learn from the mistake and potentially gain from it without being shackled to a criminal record for the rest of their life.

Inappropriate. A more-appropriate way would be to set a donation box up by the cash register at the trading post. Let each person decide on their own and in their own time. Better yet, let them mail their donations anonymously after they get home. They would be free to give whatever they freely decide to give, based on their own conscience.