packsaddle

Ooooo...she has a mischievous streak... I like that.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Holy Toledo, I didn't know who Marine le Pen was. Those would have been brutal for my engineers. My most popular course IS the one that qualifies for natural science for all majors and I have ALL majors in it, from architecture to zoology. So let me give it a try tomorrow and I'll report back.

Sailingpj, Thanks for relating that story. I hope things eventually work out for you. This institution has a special program for students who are having a tough time making the adjustments for whatever reasons. The program is only a few years old and it includes some 'first' students (first in the family to attend college) and some who just have a tough time. But the program was started in response to the engineering school which noticed a segment of their freshmen who were losing their scholarships or getting into academic trouble during the first year. When they looked into the problem a little more carefully, they realized that the majority of these students were either minorities (often also first in families) or home-schooled (this is rare in minorities...h'mmmmmm). So in a sense home-schooling has helped create a service for all students who have this kind of trouble. The program might not have existed otherwise. On the other hand, the costs are hefty and they are ultimately borne by everyone who pays tuition and taxes. AND a significant number of these students don't make it anyway - that Darwinian thing again. I wish you the best of success.

And if they do move to defined contribution plans, it will do absolutely nothing to the liability they've already incurred, unless they couple the change with reneging on those prior commitments. Do you think this is the kind of move that will enhance the interest of competent persons in government service? Hardly. What it will do is make certain that the service is performed with even less and less competence and less and less efficiency by less- and less-qualified persons who more and more will merely monitor contracts for privatized government services. Actually, I'd like to see it happen. I'd like to get ALL government functions into a low-bid, privatized mode, managed by morons. The sooner the better. It would be a good experience for America. Enter the Darwinian world in which the fit continue and the others are removed. I LIKE it!

Elite - those who have petards (whatever those are)

My students would fail miserably for those three names, well maybe not Kissinger but definitely the other two, whoever they were (just kidding, I lived through it). But the idea is a good one. I do something like that (not for credit, mostly to shake their confidence) with scientists, theories, laws, etc. And there are also those infernal 'clickers' that I have resisted so far but maybe I'll try them. I admit that the 'anonymous' aspect of the response might bring more of the students to the 'conversation'. You know, maybe I sold them short. I'll try it on Friday with those names and let you know how it went. No, I'll offer them as three points of extra credit on the exam tomorrow. That should do it and they'll definitely need the extra credit. Edited part: Wait a minute! Lisa, how can these things offend someone? Am I missing something?(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Hello, hello...calling Rangoon! Vol_scouter, I'm still waiting on that list. Keep in mind that no response could be interpreted as a list of zero "very thoughtful and intellectual" liberals. Or are you still working on it?

We've done it and so have other troops around here. We had an advantage of being sponsored by a church that is very close to the stadium - with ample private parking. Fanatics will pay almost anything to avoid a decent walk. So we separate them from as much money as possible..with church permission, of course, one of those mysterious ways I suppose. We also sell food and drinks (the cost is staggering inside the stadium), and post little sisters in ragged clothing on the street in the rain to solicit donations. They don't do half bad either. Edited to add: OK, ok, I just made up that part about little sisters. It seemed to flow nicely with the rest...(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

I was unaware that I had made anything other than a simple observation. I don't think it was an attack on coaches, just an observation which, by the way, no one denied. But I was in error. Judging from the responses to my observation, I SHOULD have written that people weren't merely ok with coach salaries, they will also jump to defend the coaches. Contrast that with the way people seem to be willing to diminish teachers.

The consistently highest salaries at this and all our sister institutions are....coaches. No academic value whatsoever but people seem to be just fine with that.

Walker and his imitators act from ideology, not from political strategy. They should stay the course, to use a phrase from another conservative. Stick to their guns regardless of the political consequences. That honest approach will self-correct quickly if it is as wrong as the polls suggest.

Fifties, huh. You're a baby! Me, I want to be shot by a jealous husband (hey, it's ok to have a romantic fantasy) or eaten by sharks or something. Make a tangible contribution to the ecosystem, LOL. Maybe a tight curve will eventually eat me up on the cycle, came close a couple of times already and the third time is the charm, right?

So true, nolesrule. My mother was a K-12 teacher as well, 1st grade. She had 20 years into the career when I graduated college and my low-paying tech position in industry paid more than she got, even with a local supplement. Anyone who thinks they don't more than earn their pay should take a few weeks in the trenches. Most people have no concept, but then, I explained all that in the old thread. Most people really just want something for nothing or for very little. We mouth the words about 'performance' but the truth is, we mostly just don't want to pay for what we get.

I can easily read the pain in Lisa's message. I understand what is at its roots. I think comparatively I am in a much better situation. At this institution, state funds cover about 17% of the budget. Nevertheless, the legislature wields their control as if they fund 100% of the budget. I wish the administration could find a way to terminate all state support and go totally private...and offer the Cheney admonition to the legislature. There are other similarities but Lisa's plight is worse by far. And I think this is because of the factors related to Michigan's economy that have been mentioned already. As far as I know, there is no union presence here. There ARE abuses (underpaid instructors, for example) but overall conditions are not bad. I was offered a fair salary and after working with the feds, the life of university faculty is much better. While I was with the federal government, my office was a 25 year old mobile office trailer with leaky roof and faulty HVAC. I had a $million per year lab housed in third world conditions (by the way, that's about the norm for the South, one of the reasons I feel quite at home when I travel to the third world). One difference though, between me and Lisa, when I took this position I was offered tenure with the position. I declined on principle because I don't support the tenure system, at least what it has become. Nevertheless, I have no concern about being at risk as long as I am competitive (plus my heir apparent just took a position at another institution - under this funding environment there is little likelihood of a new hire - or heir). When I fail to perform I SHOULD be replaced. My concerns are less aimed at personal status and more at the future of our young people. The students at this institution are as good as any I have ever seen. I often feel humbled by their sincerity and willingness to work hard in my courses. Yet I also see that this and other institutions are doing what we used to call 'eating the seed corn'. This level of austerity is already taking a toll (witness my success and the loss of heir apparent). The reliance on part-time, temporary, and fewer and fewer support staff is going to undermine the long-term viability and quality of research and instruction. In time, this and many other institutions will decline and I think that this country may hand over pre-eminence in higher education to other world regions...in which forward-looking governments are increasing their investment in the future rather than divesting. But...being a biologist, I also understand that this is as it should be. Entities which are less able to compete OUGHT to decline and be out-competed. As goes education, so goes the country. This is what we have chosen. So be it. I'll continue to devote myself to the students but I am not optimistic about the future of education. At this time, the nation is so economically handicapped, even another 'Sputnik' would be unlikely to change our course.

vol_scouter, I'd be interested in seeing your list of "very thoughtful and intellectual" liberals. How many are there? Who are they?

I can't say for sure but I think the 'elites' are at a club not too far from here. It's called 'The ELITE Club' and it has lots of neon lights and (this is weird) no windows. The sign says women get free membership. I guess men have to pay but since I'm not one of the members, I don't know how much.

Brent, that link doesn't seem to work. Could you check it and see if there's a problem?

"...prepared for practice." Heck, I don't want anyone practicing on me! I want a REAL doctor or whatever professional. They should get whatever practice they need while still at school. Sorry, couldn't resist.

I know what you mean. Worse, when my children were still very young we had a social circle that was mostly single moms. I was often the only adult male. And after a couple of pitchers of peach daquiris, they could be brutal. For a few hours it was a perfect world for them, a male horsing around and swimming and playing and basically watching all the kids, totally distracted during all this, which freed them to sink back into their lawn chairs and verbally brutalize males, me included. And my wife wouldn't defend me! (but that's ok because I was already covered with scars from back when girls used to dare each other to touch me with a 10ft pole) I often remarked to my wife that there was a good probability that our children would marry someone from a single parent family. I was right. Interestingly, in our case though, it has swung in the other direction. The spouse from the single parent family is incredibly strong in his/her insistence on a close-knit family. So at least part of the world is not going to that mythical hot place.

Dueling cartoons? Is that what we've come to? H'mmm...might explain the current educational status of the American people.... Anyway, we covered a lot of this ground a few years back in another related thread. I remember it because Beavah accused me of making him look like a 'liberal'...nice. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=166911#id_166911 In this thread I outlined what is the perfect approach to education. It doesn't eliminate unions but it does address many of the problems that unions seem to be accused of causing or aggravating. ....back to Mickey Mouse.... Edited to correctly spell the name of the mouse.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Or you can decline to participate.

If a person studied the actual test that they took and didn't make a perfect score....well that doesn't exactly cover them with glory does it? So what was your score...no, you don't have to respond if it wasn't a perfect 36. The national average for 2010 was 21 out of a possible 36. Of all the students who took it, 1% made perfect scores. http://www.act.org/news/aapfacts.html

1980. You didn't get that memo?

"The problem is that too many teachers think that teaching the answers to hundreds of questions is teaching to the test." Yeah, I caught this too. It begs at least two questions: How many teachers are doing this? And what is the threshold for "too many"? So I ask Perdidochas, do you KNOW how many teachers teach to the test? Are there published statistics? Do you know what the criterion is for an acceptable level of teaching to the test? What is it?

I've never been in a union. Neither was my father. When his job-related injury resulted in surgery and a long convalescence, he was wished well with hopes he could find employment after he was healed. Not one single thing more. No paid sick leave. No medical insurance. No workman's comp. Nothing. It was devastating. So I do see how the right of a group of workers to organize and make their point by striking is a good thing. I agree with Sherminator. The workers have given Walker what he claims to want in cost-cutting. The right to collectively bargain doesn't affect the budget under those conditions. When I was involved in representing the federal government during public information forums, there were two alternatives. Either we were going to confront a large number of individual complaints as individuals, each of which would require a significant amount of time to answer, or we might confront a citizen organization, in which case we would be handed a list of complaints which only had to be answered once. It was more efficient to confront the citizen organization. Given what we all have seen in Egypt and Tunisia, it is clear that a mob can indeed organize into a resistance even if they are denied the ability to 'collectively bargain' (form political parties, movements, etc.). Walker should take note of the comparison. Instead Walker is fighting against a bogeyman that is a fantasy of his own making. He'd do well to take the concessions and then get on with actually addressing the budget problem, most of which will still remain even after the concessions. It IS all about union-busting.