packsaddle

Moosetracker, you've never actually SEEN vol_scouter...have you? ...and based on some astonishing photographic evidence, I'd say that Scoutfish is ready and qualified. (This message has been edited by packsaddle)

Back in the 80s while waiting for Leonard Nimoy to speak, the student crowd spontaneously started chanting, "Reagan, Bush...four...more..years!" again and again. That was essentially the future of the country being spoken out loud and the global market has operated in a completely rational manner. So let's keep cutting the taxes so there can be continued job growth in some other place on the planet! What gets me is that this outcome was obvious and yet today people seem surprised. What the heck did they THINK was going to happen? I watched with amazement as textile workers enthusiastically voted FOR political and economic policies which were shutting down their own livelihoods, and then blamed the other side. Fascinating! ...and poor Leonard, he was probably backstage thinking, "Beam me up, Scotty, no intelligent life here.."

Well...I was mostly thinking about backpacking alone...as a troop we are well-prepared for first aid...which, again, we've really never had to use. As a troop we did have one encounter with some fire ants and then there's the odd poison ivy thing. But so far it's all been very minor or else something that doesn't develop until we're back at home. Maybe we're not taking enough risks?

From knife cuts to chain saws and machetes and broken bones, the only times I've needed first aid were all at home. To me, the woods are about as safe as it gets. Besides, if I die on the trail, I'll die happy.

In a completely disgusted tone, my wife claims that I'd be happy sleeping in a ditch. Sadly, she's right. My opinion regarding sleep conditions is worthless to anyone else. I really hate it when I wake up with a slug crawling on my face.

I had a couple of these situations over the years as CM. I also would advise not to write. I think to show genuine interest, face-to-face with the mom is the best way. A call to arrange a visit or chat is the way to go. If she wants to talk via phone she'll let you know by continuing the conversation. When I met with the moms I started the conversation by noting that we had missed having him around and then I spoke words in support and offering assistance. The moms were very appreciative of the offers and the knowledge that someone else 'out there' cares. They often feel isolated, alone, and abandoned (not to mention betrayed and perhaps suspicious). However, I made no offers that I was not prepared to follow through on. They also, as much as anything, want honesty. But honest concern and support is a wonderful thing and in my cases they appreciated it.

As a person who's never needed a first aid kit, ever, in the woods, you guys are scaring me.

I confess that I can't sleep in a hammock. I like to be able to turn over and move around. So while I am incredibly envious of those who have and use jungle hammocks, I choose to allow the land leeches access. For some reason, I am far more comfortable on the ground. There's just nothing as good as soft ground, a warm sleeping bag, and rain on the fly. But then, my back is still in good shape so I don't mind wallowing with the leeches.

"An Eagle from one troop may not be worth as much as an Eagle from another troop. But we all know that anyways, eh?" This one caught my eye. The idea of 'worth' is troubling but setting that aside, the validity of this claim depends on what is meant by 'know' and I suppose I may be the only one who doesn't. If 'know' means that we have some pre-existing idea about the 'quality' of one troop versus another, then the claim is probably right about our tendencies toward prejudice. However, the Eagle rank is an individual accomplishment, not a troop accomplishment and while one boy may not be the same as another, the only generalization I would feel comfortable with is that some persons with the rank of Eagle may not be as well-prepared as others and all of them should be judged as individuals.

I agree. Just consider THIS set of forums. If we were really face-to-face around a real campfire, I doubt that there would be any need for 'moderators' whatsoever. Same for the troops and packs. There is real value in face-to-face interactions...we can better appreciate the humanity of the others, more-so than a bunch of photons streaming from a glorified videogame. So this is one reason, I think, that your observation of little difference to the boys is valid. The boys DO work in a realm of face-to-face interaction if the unit is active. It is not only a source of fun and learning but also socialization so they can learn how to get along with others, and NOT IN CAPITALIZATIONS on some digital medium thing. To me this also is the essence of the value of local option for programs. The parents and unit leaders are the ones who best know the boys and best able to determine needs. I guess I'm ahead of you re:grandsons. I know for sure what I'm headed for and I'm looking forward to it...just a few more years to Tiger. Sure hope they don't move away, I'll just have to pack up and move too....

Vol_scouter, I agree with you on your point regarding 'authority' of so-called intelligentsia. It's possible that in some circles you and I might be thought of as so-called 'intelligentsia'. I hope that possibility makes you as nervous as it does me. I apologize, my tendency to beat an idea to pieces doesn't make many friends around here either. My point is more with the concept of 'intelligentsia' and the mercurial way people choose who 'the intelligentsia' are. They seem to pick 'intelligentsia' which confirm pre-existing prejudices, while ignoring opposing ideas (not to mention opting not to think clearly on their own - maybe firing on Ft. Sumter or some such idiotic move). Acco40, yes, it becomes sectarian under those conditions. The claims I read that LDS 'calls the shots' for BSA also makes it sectarian if those claims are true.

Acco, I join you in your feelings. However, the way I understand it, is that the lack of 'cleanliness' or 'moral straightness' is based on moral absolutes derived from Biblical interpretations. It is a strictly religious derivation from a particular form of religion. I could be wrong but that's what I've gotten from listening to the explanations repeated over the years.

Vol_scouter, remember..this was YOUR source. I was trying to be generous. Of all the Europeans listed, only ONE considered humans in terms of different species, Charles White. And his ideas were influenced by the Bible as well. There might be more out there but that's the only one outside of the ones I mentioned before. Now if you think that one English physician carried more weight than the likes of Voltaire, Linnaeus, Buffon, Kant, and Cuvier, your point is well-taken. I doubt it. Nevertheless, why don't you sift through your own source and see if I've missed something. I might have and if so, I'd like to know.

Vol_scouter, I've checked through that extensive list of names from the Wikipedia site. Most of them do not support a difference at the species level. Of the ones who do support that idea, most of those are strictly European, and unlikely to be the ones you think of as Southern intelligentsia. Of the ones mentioned from the South and associated with support of slavery, two are actually followers of the ideas of one other, Dr. Morton. There is only one other Southern promoter of the idea of separate species, Dr. Knox, and his ideas actually equate 'species' with 'race' so he's out of the picture. That leaves Morton who evidently is a large figure in American anthropology. One person from that entire list. Moreover, after reading further, it seems that Morton's ideas were themselves influenced or at least constrained by his interpretation of the Bible. In this manner, he believed that that a literal interpretation of the Bible supported multiple creations, polygenism, the only way to explain the multiple so-called 'species' of man. The Bible was even here, influential on the idea. At any rate, that is only ONE person. One 'wild card', Richard Furman (for whom Furman University is named), is worth considering but so far I have not been able to establish that he believed in a species-level difference. However, since I may have unique access to his work I will try to clear that matter. Nevertheless, it is evident that Furman's primary work was a tome in which he attempted to reconcile slavery for his Baptist fellows. The Bible again had its influence. I haven't pressed you to describe in more detail how you define "THE intelligentsia" so that question remains for now as well. But I think that it will be difficult, regardless of who the 'intelligentsia' are, to separate their devout religious beliefs from their rationale in support of slavery. I doubt that you can find a single instance of support for the idea of separate species of man which is NOT influenced by some interpretation of the Bible. However, I'm open to more suggestions.

Thanks Eagle92 and Vol_scouter, I frequently confront the confusing topic of biological species so I'm always collecting these little anecdotes to keep them from going to sleep. Having grown up in some of the dark days of the deep South, I'm aware of all the arguments regarding eugenics and so-called racial superiority. I was treated to a barrage of this from my peers, some of my family, and from the pulpit at my Presbyterian church (nod to Moosetracker). But I was unfamiliar with the preposterous claims that black people were different species. I'm now doing the necessary reading.

Vol_scouter, you said, "To be clear, they were echoing what was being said by the intelligentsia of their day who claimed that blacks were a different species." Please list the names of those "intelligentsia" and give some quotes or citations for their claims.

Pay no attention to that little man behind the curtain, it's all smoke and mirrors. SeattlePioneer is just advocating control by a 'strong central government' in BSA. His words may echo what's going through your DE's mind right now...he's confronting the reality that he dreads - that volunteers might realize that VOLUNTEERS are the ones really in control, and they might take it. Those phone calls are anxiety, concern, uncertainty, desperation....not for the pack, but rather for his own status. After I cut the strings and this pack went its own way, we were far more successful than before, partly because ALL of our time and energy was spent on the BOYS with no more distraction from elsewhere. We had our own program, our own schedule, and we did whatever things we chose to do with the district IF we chose to do them. I came into a pack that was dying, partly due to the ineptitude (or worse) of the DE, and left a pack that was thriving. The troop did largely the same thing. I'll PM you regarding potential road trip.

Good for you! Do what you think is right and put the family first. Just try avoid a feeling of vengeance. It isn't worth it. I keep telling myself that too.

So....Eamonn, are you saying you need to get a better-fitting hairpiece?

When I was CM, it took me two years to realize that the DE is NOT there to help. At best the DE can be a neutral influence so I cut my losses by minimizing the interactions. But as far as the money goes, we were a little better off I guess. I was only out of pocket a few $hundred each year so I'm not complaining too much. Here's my advice: Just say no. When they start yelling and screaming, they've essentially handed you all the power and that is to continue to say no. The yelling and screaming does nothing. You can ignore it. Get the applications in when you can. Send the money that you need to. And just ignore the noise. My DE would threaten not to recharter us. I'd say, "OK, I'll send word out to the parents." That would really piss him off too. But those deadlines and that paperwork is just bean counting. Get it done when you can and don't sweat it.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

A large municipality in this region only recently started filtering their water (due to that bad, bad, government regulation by the EPA, tsk, tsk). Before that, I could easily identify living protozoans in their finish water, using the microscope, and sometimes you could actually SEE organisms in it. But their watershed was well-protected and to my knowledge there were no outbreaks of any nasties like occurred in Milwaukee. I know that there are plenty of people in this country who still dip water from streams for their daily needs, and who don't seem to become ill. I also know that when I'm in the islands, the water I drink is merely collected from protected streams, untreated. No ill effects...I'm willing to accept the risks in that case, plus I've tested most of it. But I also know that in this country, having actually tested the water in hundreds of places, I will NOT drink from untested, unlabeled streams, lakes, wells, or even springs...unless I have boiled it or filtered it using a sub-micron filter. Anything less is just a spin of the cylinder and a pull of the trigger.

And THAT, Moosetracker, is precisely the basis for this idiotic policy: prejudice with a disguise of moral judgment.

BS-87, take a pass through this series and see who you think the intolerant ones are....

MomToEli, because of that intemperate comment by BS-87, I AM going to open it up again so everyone can experience the enjoyment of newly found gum left on the bedpost for years and years....

OK, while we're chewing this cud one more time, might as well enjoy this blast from the past: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=112572#id_112801 It's about "Unclean Leaders" Bone appetite! '...toucha, toucha, toucha, touch me, I want to be dirrty...'(This message has been edited by packsaddle)