packsaddle

Some other moderator please send this to the proper forum if you think this is out of place. I have a commemorative cup that I'd like to give to a new owner. It's in great condition, unbroken, not chipped, very clean. I ask the recipient to defray shipping expense, USPS Priority. Contact me with a PM if interested.

First I would like to thank RememberSchif for continuing to moderate these forums. I've been in 'hibernation' for quite a while and the notice I received caused me to emerge for a moment. While I have a deep and very personal sympathy for the feelings that are expressed by PaleRider, for me that arises from a source other than Scouting. At least for me, Scouting was like an oasis in a society that otherwise contained terrible things which I was not able to completely avoid, it turned out. I was deeply saddened when I first learned, years ago, about the terrible things that happened to boys at the hands of scouters. But contrary to those crimes, what I sought and found, so long ago as a boy in Scouting, was a haven where I could find some peace and a place in this world. It will always be a positive part of my life, what's left of it, just it always was since that time. I hope and I suspect that overall there have been more experiences like mine and while there is no way to excuse the crimes that were committed, I think most of Scouting was good for the boys. Scouting may not have a future like it used to be. But I think it can still have a future, especially with the changes I saw regarding inclusiveness. In the future Scouting may not be exactly like it was. That might not be a bad thing.

To my fellow moderators, I have returned briefly to deliver some sad news. Please place this notification wherever you think it fits best. To all in the Forums and especially any 'old-timers' who are still keeping in touch, I am deeply saddened, in tears in fact, to notify you that one of our good friends, gwd-scouter , with whom I shared many good times in both Scouting and other times, who some of you may remember was a champion of social justice both in and outside of Scouting, whose passion for the outdoors, Scouting, and family was immense, came to life's end this morning at 0213. I was just notified of this by her husband with whom I also shared many good memories and her son with whom I interacted as while a member of the faculty at his school. Both of us eventually 'aged out' of Scouting as our families grew up and we 'passed our batons' to new leaders. She was about to enjoy retirement when her family was struck by SARS-cov-2 and all of them contracted COVID-19. While her husband and son recovered after their illness, she also seemed to be in recovery and even a few days ago communicated to me and other friends about her optimism after some serious concerns seemed to have passed. But evidently her optimism was short-lived and the relief I had felt initially with her optimistic outlook was just shattered this morning with the news of her death. I will refrain from commenting on my views of issues surrounding COVID-19 at this sad time. I merely wanted to let anyone who cares to know about her. As I am certain there are plenty of other Scouting families who have suffered similar losses, I offer my deepest sympathy to them as well and best wishes to all of you. Packsaddle

In case anyone is interested, Tillerson's words employed the title of a book by Steven Pinker (2011) entitled, "The Better Angels of Our Nature". The book describes the historical decline of violence and possible reasons for this. Here is a testimonial from Bill Gates: “If I could give each of you a graduation present, it would be this—the most inspiring book I've ever read."—Bill Gates (May, 2017) In case anyone is interested. It's a thoughtful book. Pinker has some other titles that are worth considering as well.

And they've been really good years too. I can tell.

So....Barry, how many years ago has it been now....?

LOL, agreed, I can sure attest to some heated 'discussions' of just what that right way is, among unit leaders at cracker barrel. To me, respect is something felt in each of our hearts and minds and unlikely to be imposed from outside sources if we don't already feel that respect. Anyway, I admit that I hesitated to post that short video. Reading the discussion about how to retire the flag in a respectful manner just brought the image of that video back in my memory. It was, to me, more disrespectful than dumping the flag into a latrine. But that guy was not alone. There were at least two others in the same community with exactly the same display. And no one, NO ONE, in the community objected or really even made a comment that I know of. So I took the risk of making this thread controversial, but mostly wanted to give the discussion of the 'proper way to retire the flag' a little perspective about what is respect....or not. Edit: I just dumped the video in the spirit of avoiding controversy.

LOL, I've had this happen in college classes. Students are amazingly 'entitled', some of them. So what I've done is stop the lecture, announce to the offending persons that they should stop being rude to the rest of the class and to me. That usually results in a resentful acknowledgement. But a couple of times they ignored me. So I announced to the entire class a 'pop quiz' on the subject of today's lecture. Enough points to make a difference on the final course grade. Surprisingly, I have never had to repeat this tactic to the same class...perhaps they CAN be taught.

TFrancis, I tend to agree regarding some kind of innate difference. As for what we call them, it's a label. I refer them however they ask me to (within reason, 'Your Highness" is off the table).

Welcome to the forums. And welcome to Cub Scouting.

LOL, that's much better. Might want to extend that rest to stay safe.....just sayin'

If you're advocating this for most of scout leadership, I see coronaries in the future.

I am saddened to report that, as I scan my memories, it was in the forums on Scouter.com that I first learned about so-called, 'tea bagging'. And following up on that thought, this is in the category of things that, sadly no matter how hard we try, cannot be 'unlearned'.

We had a SM who was obese. On land, he was not destined to win races and he eventually would huff and puff up hills. But in the water he was master of the universe, full of grace and power. He had complete mastery of that environment and while he still probably wouldn't have won many races in the water, his weight didn't seem to be a handicap. Thinking about some of the responses here, as I approach the beginning of an eighth decade, I can attest to the fact that age, while it seems to impart some negative things, is nevertheless inevitable not to mention that the alternative is worse. I offer this encouragement: Those who are past age 55 (which seems to have been the age when I began to appreciate the 'true' effects of gravity) can take heart. With our decades of experience, as we lose our physical edge, we can instead employ guile and perhaps an accumulated psychological edge. After all, it's all we've got left, lol.

Interesting question and I don't know the answer. But I can soothe you a bit by informing you that this is far from the worst problems that a DE can present. OK, I know that rule but we often did things like this and the DE signed off on it. Council too.

And this SPL is most definitely not his friend. But violence is not the answer. The SPL is obviously, as they say, unencumbered by the thought process. It could be that this could be a life lesson for him as well as for the others. Your son is already experiencing enough 'life lessons'. The SPL could simply be monumentally stupid or there might be a mean streak. Bring in the parents asap. Our unit had its share of boys who were vulnerable in this and other ways....and a few bullies as well. You know the situation far better than any of us. I suspect that you'll be able to better gauge your response once the parents of the SPL have 'processed' all this. Could be that they will make the decisions for you regarding their son. If they step up to this situation and take control in a manner that you think is appropriate, that would allow you to focus more on your son who probably could use it.

That is a really good precautionary consideration. I know many of those lake well and even at lower elevation some of them could threaten hypothermia if care isn't taken.

When I take groups on day hikes or backpacking, if their preparedness is unknown I start with some 'creampuffs' and then progress toward the real deal. I confess that I was greatly heartened a couple of years ago when I overheard one of the hikers on the phone to mom, "Mom, I just got my ass kicked by a 67-year-old heart patient". Right on! They did just fine after that.

At our local food banks they cull anything that is beyond expiration without exception. It must be a standard that is applied differently other places.

We do the same thing as quazse's unit. I think the council abandoned the door-to-door approach for a variety of reasons including this.

We had plenty of female leaders even without girls in the pack and troop. My only complaint was that one of them couldn't stop herself from calling these young men 'sweetie' or 'honey' or things like that. She sure as heck never graced me with one of those appellations! Anyway, the person in Ranman328's anecdote is unlikely to affect policy by complaining to a clerk. I suspect those clerks get plenty of venting of all kinds as they peddle their wares.

I was a member of that first wave of recipients of the polio vaccine. Then shortly later, the Sabin vaccine. At school everyone got the Sabin vaccine. I remember it well. We all lined up and walked past the nurse who administered the dose. There was no choice and you had to be apocalyptically stupid to reject this somehow. The Salk vaccine was given at the public health department and I remember being taken there along with my sister. I had an aunt who contracted polio as an adult, and a friend in high school whose family had rejected it...and he was permanently handicapped from the disease. It was another case of the child paying the price for the stupid decision by parents. I always get my flu shot. And I have a very disparaging view of the anti-vax bunch. What they really are is 'anti-science'. That said, I suspect that summer camp has a much greater risk for something like norovirus than flu or measles. But that could be the result of residual herd immunity and that can change fairly quickly if the population doesn't maintain its vigilance against these things.

The 'hunger factor' is also important. But those things are sure good. Did they suck the heads?

Oops, sorry for that misread. No excuse. I also ended up with great MiL AND FiL as well - but from a different decision-making process.

WisconsinMomma, I'm just trying to be helpful here but the post by quazse is still there, I think, on Wednesday at 11:34 am (at least according to the time stamp on my computer). Here it is: "Speaking of "less developed countries" my father-in-law first noticed my mother-in-law while they were tending crops in the hinterlands of western PA. He saw her work-ethic and thought, "She'll do." Demean the "help-mate" criteria all you want, but to this day, I am reaping the benefits of that union." When I read this the first time I realized that it could be taken a number of different ways and at least one of those would not be good....as you have noted. Please remember, that was his grandfather and not him. The 'benefit' he mentioned was likely being brought into this world. As he indicated, these forums are not always successful at conveying intent or tone and can easily go 'south', even when it was not intended.