Pack212Scouter

The only problem that I could see with a wican or pagan religious award is that the beliefs within these descriptions are SO diverse. If nothing else, probably a good reason for the descibed BSA policy of needing 25 charter organizations. It would be extremely difficult for PRAY to organize a huge diversity such as this (not to mention probably not very cost fective for them). From what I can tell, the requirements for such a religious award in these areas would be so vague as to be almost meaningless. It would be more akin to a "this is my own religion" award.

After the first session of Webelos Resident Camp this year, I have some concerns about what the turnout for next year will be. Camp was after the recent tornado at the Scout camp in Iowa. Well, this brought an intense safety conciousness, along with some issues this year. On the second night of camp, an intense storm blew through, along with a tornado watch a bit to the north. Well problem one was that nearly EVERYONE had brought weather radios and had them cranked, so the entire camp was awoken to alarms going off everywhere. This then resulted in many adults not thinking or exercising discression and discusing tornados. The two of these together wound up freaking out about 99.9% of the Webelos there. Following this, there was a forcast of very high winds with this storm, so the camp opted to require everyone to gather in a very crouded dining hall....with glass windows ALL around (virtually glass walls from 2 feet up), for the remainder of the night. At this point, about 95% of our pack decided that the boys were now terrified, that staying wasn't worth it, and taking what they could carry, threw their gear in their cars and departed rather than spend the night in the dining hall. The one good thing is that most of the activities had already been done, so they had a fun day right before everything turned into a nightmare Now my thinking is that this will probably severely impact the turnout by Webelos 2's next summer. Has anyone dealt with a situation like this? How did it affect the next turnout and what can be done to alleviate the impact?(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

Not supper weight efficient...and a little late. But what about carrying one of the new 6 oz cans of coke? Once washed and maybe even soaked in bleach or something, no food smell should remain or permiate the aluminum. I used to be severe organic hypoglycemic, and this was one of the remedies suggested.

I think that a good part of the issue with sports being placed in priority is two fold. First, the parent is very sports oriented...probably very rarely misses a "big game." Second is the immediate reward. With sports, dad is there cheering, the girls are watching, and the crowd is yelling. Make them feel great. While Scouting usually is much deeper, it also is more of an iternal reward.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

Our Troop bypassed the "vacation" aspect of a trip to Florida this year. They planned their own ocean kayaking trip down the southeast coast. Won't be much lounging on a boat in the sun, they will be paddling!

It seems the one constant in the universe is that someone will find something (everything?) to complain about. Water off the ducks back...as long as the kids had a blast, learned something, and want to come back...then it was a success!

We bought 4 sets of the Midland-GXT850 radios for our Pack this Spring. We had bought some cheaper "5-mile" ones, but returned them for these as the cheaper ones were useless at any range over a couple hundred yards. They are excellent 2-way radios and come with both NOAA weather radio and weather alert warning, which I have used and they work great. I highly recommend these. The rechargable battery life is excellent, lasting about 12 hours with heavy use or over 48 hours of monitoring time. They can also use regular AA batteries if the rechargable goes dead. We now require our Webelos and campout leaders to take these with them. Ours were purchased from Amazon and they gave us zero grief with the exchange. http://www.amazon.com/Midland-GXT850VP4-22-Channel-26-Mile-2-Way/dp/B000P0RPY4/ref=pd_bbs_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1215975873&sr=8-5 (This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

Or if you wind up giving it to Packs in the council, maybe someone will wind up nominating you for one of those nifty knots or awards. I know that you didn't do it for that reason, but you would certainly deserve it. I know that something like this takes considerable time and effort. ::shhhhh:: I used the dreaded "knot" reference...run...hide...be vewy quiet..... (This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

Wow Packsaddle, I'm sorry that you seem so bitter and angry on the subject. And frankly I have no idea how you went on to attack conservatives. Since it is such a bitter point though, I shall leave it alone. Have good weekend and enjoy your family. That is what truely counts.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

"And this is so easily avoided. Governments merely need to stop breaking the law." Ahh...so easy...not. The government hasn't broken the law. In these cases, the government has violated the current INTERPRETATION of the laws. What is considered legal and correct now, was not considered that 50 years ago, what was legal and correct 50 years ago was not 100 years ago, and what is legal and correct today most likely will not be considered that 50 years from now. Everyone is convinced that their interpretaion of the Constitution is the right one, including myself. There are only three possible "right" interpretations. 1) The original intent of the writers. Which can be infered from their writings and the beliefs in America at the time. "original intent" 2) The interpretation based on what is "in vogue" at the time. "finger to the wind" 3) The interpretation based on what is best for the "greater good". Two sub-interpretations of this here...Greater Good= significant majority, or Greater Good= widest benefit to all.

"the main problem seems to be that the ACLU has a pretty good win/lose record." Hmmm....of the 736 cases before the US Supreme Court, in which the ACLU was directly involved (from 1920-1999), the court ruled in favor of the ACLU's supported position 418 times. That amounts to 57% of the cases in the ACLU's favor. Not exactly a terrific win/loss record.

Scottteng is correct, the home page is information overload. First off, decide if the primary purpose of the website is for promoting to potential members, informing current members, or both. The site design can then be tailored to that purpose. Our pack trasitioned to a new web provider last year and a couple of us have been working on improving it. Currently it's primary purpose is as an information port for pack members. As such, it is fairly utilitarian and a work in progress. I aim to develop the potential Cub side of it. Unfortunately, while the provider makes transition to new webmasters pretty easy and allows non-web savey people to handle it, it is fairly limited. You can see it here. http://www.southeastpack212.com/

Ghermanno, interesting turn of it. I hope that this is not percieved as an attack. It is very true that we and our children will have to pay for the costs of the War on Terror, but so will we. I always find it interesting how people always go to the "our children will pay" argument though. My children won't even be in a paying capacity for another 10-20 years, while I will be paying for the next 25-30 years. Also, in reguards to the immigrant section, please define "many." There are about 70,000 foreign born individuals serving in our armed forces. This number amounts to around 5% of the military. Of this, about 30,000 or 43 % are non-citizens. Legal immigrants. While I am sure that some have gotten around the system, there are not many illegals as you seem to imply that the majority are. To carry this further, about a third of the non-citizens are hispanic (the most likely group to have illegals). So now we are down to about 10,000 people, or 0.7% of the military, even having a POTENTIAL for illegals. Assuming a whopping 10% may get through, which is still a ridiculous number, we are now talking about 1,000 potential illegal immigrants, or .07% of the military. Hardy what I would define as "many." You are correct that we cannot wage a war without civilians. This is mostly due to the fact that the US military thinking, especially post Cold War, shifted to use civilians for support roles, thus decreasing the net size of the military. As for polititians, I'm not even going there. I'll leave the argument whether man is inherently good or evil, but politics MUST be inherentlly evil!

Well, it could never hurt to try. Part of the issue of selling it might be people sharing it if it is not copy protected. That said, we as Scouters are suposed to be honest! Generally speaking, I think that most tracking software that sells, does alot more than just advancements and also links to BSA. Our Pack just transitioned to PackMaster because of these reasons and for ease of transition to the Troop which uses TroopMaster. We are continueing to use Trax on the Den level because it is a much better visual and advancement system than PackMaster for Den leaders. I would say if you have developed something better than Trax, it might sell. I am curious as to how it works. You may try it as Shareware, ie. try it and send money if you like it. I'd also try to approach local Packs to start. It is easier to sell if they know you and can see it.

Acco...that post really doesn't relate to the comment in your original post. However I will continue it. What effect has it had? Hmmm...not sure about the effect on you. I currently have a nephew-in-law deployed to Europe who makes trips to the middle east; a sister-in-law's brother who VOLUNTEERED to extend his service for a deployment over there before he got out to do private practice as a doctor, and two good friends deployed over there. If it wasn't for the fact that I am too old to enlist, I would be too. We are not as severely affected as many previous wars, but then we are not in a full scale global war either. As far as urban vs rural, you see more representation from rural areas more because they hold to conservative values rather than because "they are poor and desperate." The inner city is more poor and desperate and enlists at lower numbers than any other area. Also on that note, I have no doubt it is advertising and recruiters fault, but people who enlist should realize that the military is not a loan or education program. It is the military....their job is to FIGHT WARS! I would be pleased if this never happened, but that is the job of the military.

While I agree with most of your post acco, I have to take issue with your final statement "When the soldiers, airmen, sailors and marines are composed of Americans from all classes of our society I'm sure our policies would change." This is both a popular and untrue statement. Below are the facts. INCOME 76% of military recruits come from the income range of $25,000-$50,000 (most in the 35-40k range). Recuits from the poorest neighborhoods, 20% of the population have declined from 18% pre 9/11 to less than 14% now. The recruits from the poorest of our population(under $30,000) are at a ratio of 70% of their population percentage. The recruits from the most affluant of our population ($50,000+ & $200,000+) are at a ratio of 114% of their population percentage. EDUCATION 80.5% of recruits have a HS diploma or higher, 9.5% have a GED, pretty much what you would expect from an entry level job. Total of 96% versus 80% of the population. Higher education is under represented, as would be expected in this kind of job. RACE African American recruits account for only slightly more than the population, 12.99% of recruits versus 12.17% of the population. Hispanic recruits versus population are virtually even at 14% Caucasion results are also virtually equal 73% versus 75% The only races over represented are American Indian, Alaskan Native, Pacific Islander, and Native Hawaiian.

Traditional tolerance is that I accept your right to believe and live as you see fit, so long as it does not impenge on the rights, safety, etc. of others. "New" tolerance has addopted the meaning that I have to accept your beliefs as equally valid and true as I believe that mine are. Kind of a ridiculous concept actually.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

Talk to the parents about what should be worked on. Also, put one of your leaders going to that session "in charge" of the session. They can remind parents of what should be worked on and also keep the group together. Camp is alot more fun when experienced as a group.

A very sad incident, but we need to be a little realistic here. Follow GSS, and excercise safety common sense. Floats such as what ManyHats showed are safe. All kids were seated, with no legs of arms over the side. Additionally there was a rail in front of them and adults both on the float and the ground. We want to keep the safety of these boys foremost, but we also need to keep in mind that NOTHING is perfectly safe. Next will be hiking and camping bans because Scouts fall or overheat. Should we expose them to intentionally unsafe environments, no. But we also should not be keeping our children in a plastic bubble. Excercise proper safety precautions, and look for any known risks to avoid. Someone will post I am sure that a parade is not worth the risk. Maybe...maybe not. That is something a parent should decide. Is going to a Scout meeting or outing worth the risk of a traffic fatality? You know that happens also.

"I am thinking about contacting the Ronald McDonald House near our local childrens hospital. When my daughter was a newborn and in the hospital, they were great to me and my wife. I talked with the parents and they thought that helping was a great idea. So we are talking about helping them by cooking a nice meal for all the residents. Of course the parents would help. You know have the boys in uniform and make it special for the parents going through hard times. Maybe spending time with the kids who are staying there also." That is actually a great idea that I hadn't thought of! We were one of those who was glad to have access to RMH facilities for in between time in the NICU (two stints with two babies). I think it would be even more special for my son who was in critical care in the NICU for 3 weeks and is now a healthy Bear. Just for anyone curious...my newborn son in the NICU in 2000 http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g145/Coaster-BRIG-/Aug0610.jpg My son at our fall campout as a Wolf http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g145/Coaster-BRIG-/DSC00178.jpg

Gonzo1, not sure what your refering to here. GSS permits the use of truck beds and trailers for parade floats and hayrides as long as certain safety precautions are kept. Transportation to and from the parade or hayride site cannot be on the truck or trailer. Those persons riding, whether seated or standing, must be able to hold on to something stationary. Legs should not hang over the side. Flashing lights must illuminate a vehicle used for a hayride after dark, or the vehicle must be followed by a vehicle with flashing lights.

I can see schools not directly sponsoring a BSA unit for some of these reasons, but I have to disagree on one prime point. "Therefore, government institutions like the US Army, Public School systems, Department of Education, etc. should not charter BSA units." My target here is the "Army" statement. Having been raised in the military, I can attest to the fact that a military base, especially a large one is it's own community. Some are also remote. Quite often, you shop on base, you attend chapel on base, your school is on base. In these situations there would be very limited options for the boys and Scouting without a school or base sponsoring a unit. Having the families create an organization also does not work well, as there are frequent long term deployments and pretty much everyone moves usually no less than every three years.

BSA inconsistance? Say it isn't so! I understand what you are saying Ghermanno, but that quote is from how meetings should be run. Meetings should be done with two leaders, heck we try to have three in a Den so that if someone is sick or can't come or moves, we have two trained leaders still there, but if somethig happens, it can be run with one. Obviously the two leader system should be restored as soon as possible. As ScoutNut said, I was referring to Youth Protection, and GSS policies which seemed to be what Ryetye was concerned about.

This pack seems to have many issues. The best that you can do at this point is to get the CO and the DE together, but it doesn't sound like that will happen. As for some of these issues... "I found out the tigers were picking up trash along a 45 mph road at dusk with no reflective vest Nor were Parents aware of this." The Tiger den is not being run properly then. All Tigers should have a parental partner with them. "I've been having problems in the pack as all the other leaders kinda outcast us because my boys go to a different school." Sadly, sounds like an "old boys club" type of pack. "I have several issuses at this point due to kids have not received popcorn prizes yet.(checks were missplaced and found 6 months later some expired.)Graduation was cancelled 1 Hour beforehand the first time and the night before on the second." Poor management here. "Cm has webelos in a room with the door shut at all meetings with out another adult." Not an issue. Although two-deep is always prefered, that is for outings. No one-on-one applies here and that was adheared to. "People were reregistered that haven't been to ameeting since the second one. CC application was turned in back in january to the cm and turned into council the end of may." Poor management of resources here. There is not really any rule against that, although it costs the Pack extra money. Either they don't care or are trying to fudge numbers for some reason. Probably just don't care. Many Packs wind up with boys on the books that shouldn't be there. "We just left the pack because of all the issuses. Any advice on where to turn at this point I honestly dont think local cancel cares until someone gets hurt." Probably your best decision. If you approached the Pack and the CO with these concerns and they were unwilling to discuss them, then find another Pack that your boys can grow in and that you mesh with.

I need to ammend my answer to part one of your question Michael. Strictly speaking, an Agnostic is a person who believes that claims about the afterlife and the existance of God/Gods is unknown or unknowable. Agnostics are often listed in the same category as Athiest, and are sometimes confused with those that simply state that they "don't know," meaning that they are not sure...they are searching. There several subcatagories within Agnosticism, of which here are some of the more well known. Strong Agnosticism is the view that the question of the existence or nonexistence of God is unknowable because of our inability to verify any experience with anything but another subjective experience. Mild Agnosticism is the view that the existence or nonexistence of God or gods is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable, therefore one will withhold judgment until/if more evidence is available. Apathetic Agnosticism is the view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of God or gods, but since any God or gods that may exist appear unconcerned for the universe or the welfare of its inhabitants, the question is largely academic anyway. Agnostic Theism is the view of those who do not claim to know existence of God or gods, but still believe in such an existence. Agnostic Atheism is the view of those who do not know of the existence or nonexistence of God or gods, and do not believe in them. Ignosticism is the view that a coherent definition of God must be put forward before the question of the existence of God can be meaningfully discussed. If the chosen definition isn't coherent, the ignostic holds the noncognitivist view that the existence of God is meaningless or empirically untestable. Ignostics see both atheism and agnosticism as incompatible with ignosticism on the grounds that atheism and agnosticism accept "God exists" as a meaningful proposition which can be argued for or against.