Pack212Scouter

I'll tell you what we ran into...and it may not apply to your situation. Our Council always holds roundtables on our meeting nights. Even though we have asked them to alter it occasionally, they don't. Our Charter org requires us to meet on that night as well, no other. After discussion with Council, it was decided that if the Leader attended any other training it would be acceptable (such as University of Scouting, BALOO, Woodbadge, etc.)

Shouldn't need one. Now I got some strange looks once at Council because I insisted on filing one for four adults who where pre-triping an outing for a Webelos adventure, but I wanted to make sure that we were covered in case anything happened.

> Seattle, you will see this in that many high risk activities are restricted or require additional support. For example to go canoeing is considered high risk. It must get approval from the unit leader as well as the charter organization representative. Additionally, a "tour plan" must be submitted to AHG National with these signatures. There also must be a certified lifeguard on the trip. Generally you will find that high risk activities have more restrictions and requirements.

I'm really not going to respond to trolling on here. Obviously you have made up your mind that there is something evil and untoward going on, so I really don't see any need to answer your questions BadenP. If you truely have an interest, then contact a unit close to you or AHG nationals. I'm sure they will be able to help you. As for Shortridge's questions, I'll give you what I believe their answers will be and look forward to hearing what you get back. 1. Why is the Girls Handbook only available to registered members? Truely can't answer that. 2. Why is the Leaders' section of your site only accessible to registered leaders? Best guess, it's for leaders? I think there is some advancement ordering, etc that is behind it that they restrict. 3. Where can I find a list of the badge and level award requirements without having to purchase your program materials, to help me evaluate the program content and quality? Any local unit would be happy to show you a handbook which contains all of that information. I could answer something specific but not about to post 100 pages here 4. What training do you provide for adult leaders, particularly on outdoors, safety and youth-protection topics? Outdoors, none really. BSA training is available to AHG leaders. They have their own youth protection guidlines. 5. What resources does AHG provide to girls to help them learn about the badge topics? Minimal except for what is in the book. Leaders are expected to find knowlegable people. 6. What summer camp programs does AHG operate independently of other youth organizations? AHG operates a nation summer camp in the Cincinatti area. Some other more developed area offer their own, such as the Louisville area. To my knowledge all are offered at BSA camps using a mix of BSA and AHG leadership. 7. Does AHG permit legal residents of the United States to become volunteers? Your website until recently included statements to the effect that only citizens were allowed to volunteer, and some volunteer forms remain available on the web that state that as well. I'm thus confused about AHG's policy on this topic, and why a ban on non-citizens volunteering was ever in effect in the first place. I believe this restriction is only on Unit Leaders and Treasurers. 8. Would my daughter, who is Jewish, be allowed to join an AHG troop without being proselytized to by the leader or other volunteers? Your website says that all girls are allowed to join, but also that adults must adhere to a Christian statement of faith, which creates a bit of a contradiction. What are local leaders instructed to do when non-Christian members want to join their troop? Are there ever explicitly Christian prayers offered at troop meetings or AHG events? Does AHG partner with non-Christian faiths to allow girls of other faiths to earn their religious awards, or are only Christian religious awards recognized? Interesting question. Yes she could join, but she should expect the unit to be inherently Christian. I wouldn't expect unit leaders to proselytize to her, but it could definitely happen. AHG units do offer Christian prayers at meetings and events events, but then so does our Pack & Troop. I do not believe that AHG partners with any other faiths. 9. Which is AHG first and foremost - a girls' scouting organization, or a Christian ministry? I believe that they will say that AHG is a Christian ministry, although their goal is to develop faith in their members not to convert. I look forward to you posting what you hear from them.

After much consideration and some attitudes on this board it has finally occured to me a valid reason why AHG may restrict access to their materials to members. If someone is truely interested in joining, they can easily find a unit who would be happy to discuss the program with them and if it is a fit for their girl. If someone wants to start a unit, AHG national is happy to discuss said things with them. All that said however, why would you really want to make materials available to people who's sole purpose is to find problems and tear down your program with no real desire to help improve it.

From an observers viewpoint, I would have to say that the AHG program is Based on a combination of the Boy Scout and Cub Scout Programs. While it is primarily original material, it is obvious where the ideas came from. I can't really say that it's based on the Baden-Powell program, as youth leadership is a growing emphasis and wasn't really pushed in the original program very much. Additionally, AHG is lawsuit concerned so you have to jump through MANY hoops to do anything adventurous. Most of us with older girls in the program have been thrilled to see the cooperation between AHG & BSA and the opotunities that the Venturing program has for these girls.

You are both right and wrong on this. Boy Scouts is not Cub Scouts. There are options for physically/mentally disabled youth, but Boy Scouts is a demonstrate knowledge, not an try to do program. A boy that has completed AOL "should" have no problem completing Scout rank. That said, it doesn't mean it is automatic...he still has to DO it. Now as Neal said...They don't have to have Oath, Law, Motto, etc memorized for Scout rank, they only have to be able to explain an understanding of them and agree to live by them.

Shortridge. the first part was an attempt by me to figure it out based on past experience. As for "Again, you realize this makes no sense, right? Selling a book to the public in no way diminishes your intellectual property rights. Nor does it expose you to a lawsuit, unless you stole the content from someone else." That is correct...it does not diminish your intellectual property rights. It does however make it easier for someone to copy...however on rethinking, that is probably not the reason...I can't really asnwer it fully at this time. As for your comment "No one is clinging to an obsolete form to show that AHG discriminates against legal immigrants. I'm simply pointing to two forms currently available on the AHG website that clearly, plainly and unequivocally require unit leaders/assistants and unit treasurers to be U.S. citizens:" You are correct..and to the best of my knowledge these still apply. This requirement does not apply to AHG leaders, only to the Unit Leader, the unit leader assistant, and the Treasurer. I am not sure of the complete reason for this, but I think that the biggest explanation probably is clued in by the Treasurer part. To the best of my knowledge most banks require either an EIN or a SSN to open a normal account. Since most units may not have access to an EIN, this requirement would simplify the process. Yes I know it is possible for legal aliens to have bank accounts, but it is not as simple. This is of course only a logically derived guess.

Ok...coolest dream trip? This is a dream, because no group could put the time together. The Pacific Crest Trail or maybe the Contenental Divide trail from one end to the other. Now...a realistic dream trip.... a week backpacking in Denali National Park with a stop off on the way there in Juno to Kayak.

Several terms got ammended a couple of years back by BSA request due to copyright. Ie, Tenderfoot level became Tenderheart; it is no longer refered to as a "Scouting program", but rather a "character development program"; Merit Badges became just plane Badges. What are the badge requirements for each level? It varies by level. This is one of what I see as needing improvements in the program. Currently AHG feels that every badge should have requirements at every level. This is both an advantage and a disadvantage. The advantage is that unlike Scouts, if they continue on with the badge they are building on their knowledge level, rather than a one and done. The disadvantage is that some things are limited because of the difficulty of implementing for young girls. What resources does AHG provide to girls to help them learn about the topics? The handbook provides a listing of requirements which are pretty straightforward, but there are no "Badge books" that list all the knowledge. It is similar to the listing you would see for merit badge requirements. Is the learning model unit-based (leader signs off on everything) or subject-matter based (the BSA MBC model)? The learning model is unit-based, ie, a leader (advancement manager) has to sign off on items. For some things you have to go outside the leader structure for completion, ie, "talk to a pilot about....." There is no Badge Counselor system. What are the requirements for the Level Awards? Earning one badge from each of the differnet fields at your current level. Earning at least one service star per year of membership at your level (gets more as you get older, ie, 5 hours for Tenderheart (1-3 grade), 15 hours for Pioneer (7-8 Grade)). Attending a unit event each year. Depending on your level, helping with or eventually planning and assiting with leading a unit event. A few other requirements, culminating in a Board of Review. The level award is not required for advancement, the program follows the Cub Scout grade based method in this area. What summer camp programs does AHG operate independently of other youth organizations? AHG tends to use BSA summer camps. National provides a National Summer Camp in Cincinatti Ohio which smalled Troops can attend. Well developed areas such as our Louisville area has it's own Summer Camp, organized by the area AHG leadership and run by a combination of the BSA summer camp staff and local AHG staff. This is also open to Troops outside the area, but like BSA summer camps. What outdoor training does AHG offer to its leaders? Minimal. The annual leader conferance has some programming for such and leaders are encouraged to utilize the local BSA training for this. Additionally, all AHG leadership will need to take BSA youth protection this year, as well as AHG's. Why is the Leader Portal online restricted to registered adults only? While AHG sets itself aside as morally different than Girl Scouts, they are sensative to not wanting to directly have any battles. AHG recognizes the GSUSA's right to run their program as they see fit, and while they don't agree with it, they want to avoid as much as possible the immage of attacking GSUSA. Additionally, a large protion of AHG funding (as a fledgling organization) relies on funds from materials. This is the easiest way to prevent copying as well. Why are only registered members permitted to purchase the Girl Handbook? Can't really answer this. I think to try to protect their intellectual property. As a comparatively small organization, much of the AHG policy revolves around avaoiding lawsuits as they do not have the millions of dollars that BSA has to combat them.(This message has been edited by pack212scouter)

Sounds to me like the SM may have been the one out of line. The reality is that not every Scout can be captain of their sports team. Not every Scout can graduate college. However Eagle is an attanable goal for ANY Scout (even disabled ones). This does not mean that they will make it. They have to put the effort into it, BUT that is all that it really takes for them if they want to do it...effort.

Well, my daughter's AHG Troop was once the largest in the country before they split off multiple troops in our area. As far as open, just like our Pack, Troop, and Crew, anyone youth is welcome to be a member, but none of our three make bones about the fact that they are sponsored by a Christian charter organization and will exhibit Christian values and conduct said prayer before meetings and a service on Sundays. However a youth is not required to sign a statement of faith in any of the units. As for minorities, I would say that our units run about 20%. With the exception of being a "Christian" based organization, AHG programing is much more closely modeled on BSA that GSUSA is.

Missed by a month...it was 15 April

"So the next question is how to explain what is involved so that 12-year-olds and their dads understand why you think they should wait in most cases?" Take them down to your council camp and have them hike for a mile with one of those canoes over their head. Then explain to them that they will have to add 6-12" mud to the difficulty. You can also load a pack with 60-70 lbs and have them do the same. In some ways NT is more difficult than Philmont. Your not dealing with the altitude, but you are carrying heavier weights for a shorter distance. You need a lot more core body strength which most 12 year olds don't have.

Ok, I know what BSA says about it, how about you all? What is your opinion of a Troop that uses rank advancement worksheets during the Scoutmaster conferances? I'm not talking about the ones on meritbadge.org, but a worksheet with about 40 questions that they have to answer during a Scoutmaster conferance. Questions about the Scoutcraft they have learned (T-1st) and merit badges for higher ranks. And they have to get a passing grade to proceed onto a BOR.

I haven't seen that. I do have the positions that I am serving in listed though....ie... ASM, Troop Assoc Adv, Crew

We have the same thing. Just keep in mind that because you check that donate to box, all the United Way does is reshuffle funds. If you say you want $100 to go to BSA, then they take $100 of the planned amount and move it to other funds. All it does is tell them that you want to support that program, but the bottom line is that you are supporting every program the the United Way contributes to.

2 - cabin camping (usually Jan & Feb, caving and electronics) 1- summer camp (tent) and high adventure in July And 8 other tent outings (2 single location with service project, 3 backpacking, 1 single location with canoeing/biking, 1 single location with climbing, 1 single location with Webelos) August is an off month for meetings and outings

Our Troop has one of these every February, but it's a little more structured. It is one of the more popular outings. It's the only one that the PLC allows electronics on. We also usually do the First Aid MB for the first year Scouts and Communications or another MB for the older Scouts that want to take it. Usually the most senior ones take a Day Hike and there is a movie on Sat night.

Most of the dwindling I think is due to the fact that we get nearly 100% bridgeover from Webelos. The bottom line is that for about half of those boys, they are in it because their parents want them there. Sports and band, etc, start to take up more time in those middle school years and various other things. Eventually we don't see them anymore. As they do other activities and gain friends there...losing contact with the boys in Scouting, they start to show up less and less. The bottom line from what I see is that in spite of what we would all like, Boy Scouting is not a top priority for them in this day and age of competing activities.

Our Council supposedly uses a national company, however I have yet to be involved with a CO that doesn't do their own. Our Troop & Pack's CO does their own background checks through a private company, plus calls the references themselves. My daughter's Venture Crew which is chartered by a catholic church also does their own. All the volunteers in the diocess (sp) have a state police background check run.

If your PLC wants a fully uniformed troop (and in my opinion all should be), then the ASMs need to support this by leading by example. The one caveate that I always place here is that if it is going to be a requirement, then there needs to be a uniform closet for turnovers and a small budget for Scouts/Scouters in need.

How does your troop schedule boards of review? There is a binder on the counter, when a Scout is ready, he signs the binder for the upcoming week that he wants it. Do these occur at troop meetings or at separate designated times? During troop meetings. If not at troop meetings, how often are BORs offered to the scouts? Winds up being three times a month. Who handles the scheduling? Board of Review Chair Who sits on the boards? Three committee members designated for boards. How are BOR members recruited? They are specific committee positions.

Our Pack is running at around 170 again. We peaked a few years back at right under 200. Our Troop is at about 100 with a sizable number about to join this year (millenium babies).

I'm sorry to hear of your loss. We just had one of our eagles from just a few years ago die suddenly in a motorcross accident. It is always so very tought for their families and the boys and people who were close to them and look up to them.