PACK15NISSAN

I think it is just something in the air this year that parents don't want to send their boys to camp or boys just don't want to go. For our Day Camp we only had 3 Webelos 1's out of 10-12, and 2 Webelos 2's out of 10-12. We haven't had our Resident Camp (coming at the end of July) but we only have 3 maybe 4 Webelos 1's same boys plus one other, and we have no Webelos 2's. Whatever is causing this I sure hope it stops next year.

I found that most of the classes or activities where focused on having fun not necessarily earning anything, which I like. During games and sports I talked to the guy running it and we played Ultimate Frisby and Wiffle Ball instead of Kickball so that we could earn some BL's toward the Sportsman pin. He told me he didn't care so much what we did, he just had ideas and was happy for us to play anything (he learned to play Ultimate too). The only class that was directed specifically at achievements was First Aid and geared toward whatever rank was being taught. By the end of the week the boys earned Sportsman and Readyman (I did the CC during den time) and they never even noticed they where earning pins, because they where having fun. When something is made into, now we are working on this for this achievement it can lose its fun, you just have to adapt what is being done to suite achievement not the other way around. I am not saying this is what you are doing, but I noticed that is what a lot of leaders do. Camp ends up being a week long plow for achievements instead of fun. I went to our Resident Camp (Webelos) training this weekend and one of the papers that is passed out to parents says (not an exact quote) the main purpose of camp is to have fun and learn new things not to do achievements, some achievements will be earned throughout the week but it is secondary to the main purpose. That is why our Pack has no Webelos 2's going to Resident Camp because they didn't have fun last year. In the end my boys may earn 3 or 4 pins over the summer between both Day and Resident camp but if they don't earn any that is fine too.

Let me rephrase: When one of the boys abused, misused, or took advantage of their leader, that they be returned the favor. One day when these boys grow up will be able to 'almost exactly' apply their 'servant leadership' skills to work doing 'military intelligence', that is a my 'unbiased opinion'.

During our Summer Camp I worked on achievements (Webelos Badges) that the camp didn't list on our papers. They did some as groups in activites but during den time I worked on getting some of the badges done rather than I few here and there that the camp suggested (that just means those boys have to do it twice, once at camp and once during den back at their own Pack). I was completely open to ideas on what to do, I would have welcomed any ideas or suggestions (I just wanted to help the boys toward their badges it didn't matter so much as how or which ones). A good leader won't be offended by your input especially since you are doing for concerns for your boys not because you think you know how to do it better than him/her. Here is a suggestion if things don't go the way you would prefer. Let the boys who have completed the badge during camp be a PL and/or APL (rotating if necessary) while you work with the other boys to get the badge. This is a win-win for the boys. All get a chance to lead succesfully (with something they know), keeps those who have done it from being bored, and lets everyone get the same badges. I know how bad it can be to have some kids with one badge, and some with another. You end up with 'mine is better' and 'I want that one' type division. You may be able to take a bad situation and use it to build them as a team.

We will be instuting the denner/patrol leader method in our den next year (Webelos 1). The previous leader never used it, since we had 3 leaders the extra help wasn't needed (his words not mine). Have a denner or PL gets them ready for Boy Scouts and teaches them both to lead and follow. We used the PL method during Summer Camp and some of the boys learned that if they did not listen when some one else was in charge most often others didn't listen when it was their turn. I told the boys to study over the summer and that when we started back we would have a test on all the Activity Badges and whoever had the highest score would be the PL and on down the line. This gives the chance to learn and lead. I think that learning the ups and downs of leading and following when they are young is great. Starting as Tigers will give them a real heads up and should help bond them as a team. Our denner will lead the flag ceremony, help with crafts and cleanup, and help lead the boys on outings. I plan on getting our PL started first then adding an assistant a few months later. Keep up the good work and it will pay off big time for you as a leader and the boys.

Pack432Centerville: (try not to take offense) The program that I have written is not some customization of Trax, it is its own program completely written by me, so please do not offend by comparing adding to a program to writing one. However, I am glad that you have been able to adapt Trax to your needs, that is not what I have done, if I have made it seem so than I apologize. I simply used Trax as a basis for my design, similar setup. There is a great number of Packs that do not use computer records for achievements or advancement (at least in my area). Of those who do most use PackMaster, which does is not very user friendly or a great advancement program and not meant for the den level. I do concede to the group that it will probably not sell. I may just have to present it to my council as an example of software that will help everyone move from paper records to digital.

I guess no matter how much I dislike it I must face the music and realize that my software is probably not going to sell. Trax has beat me to the punch. Although I don't agree, I guess it is better to have something for free than something slightly better for money. The only thing I can really hope for is to pitch it to the other Packs in my council and hope people aren't using or don't like Trax. As far as software goes, I have put a lot of time into writing this program and will not switch over to something different. This really started out as something to help me and some of the other leaders in our Pack and I had hoped to make some money for our Pack, so if I don't then I don't at least my main goal was accomplished. Does anyone out there have any problems with Trax or just some suggestions to include in my program? (I want to make the best program I can even if I don't sell it).

The program basis is Excel (Access is too expensive and not enough people have it). There are some things that I like better than Trax and ultimately it will leave room for user added local awards and a compiling program for the entire packs awards and advancements. I will always provide support for anything I do, problems, questions, advice, whatever. Since the discs would be relatively cheap like $10 each den and $50-$60 for the entire pack including leaders and compiling, and considering that Cub Scout requirements don't change too drastically too often I was not planning on offering updates. If I did offer an update it would be for a slight fee $2 or something. Pricing is something I could really use some ideas on.

Okay, from what I can see, it is going to be pretty hard to sell my program because there is one similar (perhaps not as good but comperable) to mine available for free. I can understand that, don't spend money on something you don't need. What we software need to do compared to Trax to be worth buying? (keep in mind we are talking $10-20) Is there something that you guys and gals would want the software to do better, different, new?

I have tried several types of free software and what I have developed is more in depth and user friendly then any of them. The programs can be compiled to store data into a large database much like PackMaster and it is customizable to include local awards. This is not some simple spreasheet you put your info into, it is an intelligent system to track achievements and advancement. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

As far as selling it is concerned, I am planning on taking it to one the roundtables and showing it to all of the Packs in our Council and maybe that will help get it started. There is always the chance that some one will make copies but I am not worried about that, it isn't Windows and if people are going to steal then I am not going to great lenghts to stop them. From what I have seen of PackMaster it may be a good program but the recording of achievements and tracking of advancements is lacking as you said. Basically the program is designed partially off of the Trax programs, just a lot more in depth. I am the Webelos leader so I wanted it to cover everything that I needed for that group. It keeps track of each scouts info, attendance, progress toward Webelos Badge, Arrow of Light, Bobcat (if needed), Leave No Trace, Outdoor Activity Award, and keeps a track of the individual parts of each badge. It them tells me if the badge or anything has been earned. It also gives me a summary (all scouts on one sheet) of what has been earned and what has been awarded, and has an individual page for each scout so that parents can keep track too. The main difference is the adding of the LNT and Outdoor Activity Award. The setup for other programs is similar but the format is different than Trax. The Bear and Tiger program are broke down into individual pages rather than one big page and some glitches have been fixed that Trax has (completion of achievements and counting of World Conservation toward Arrow Points). It is very user friendly.

Since I am a new leader and want to do the best I possibly can for my boys I decided to find some software that would help keep up with their advancement and achievements. I found a couple for free on the internet and tried them, one being Trax and just thought they did not get as deep as I would like and they lacked some things I wanted so I developed my own. I have almost finished the Webelos program and have completed Tigers and Bears, I will be working on a Wolf and one for tracking leader training. When I showed them to our CM and other leaders they thought they where great to move away with paper and to have something that based on the info you provide tells if the boys have earned a rank or award. They suggested I pitch it to our council and put it on our Pack's website to sell. Is something like that really going to sell? This program is easy to use and very in depth, but would people rather buy it than download something free even if it is not as good. I would appreciate any comments about this, like would it sell, and how much is a reasonable price. I am not really trying to make any money I originally did it for my own Pack's use and am hoping if it does sell to put the money toward a new pinewood derby track.

It is good to see a new Leader who actually wants to be 'Trained'. It is not required for any leader positions (just Youth Protection), although it probably ought to be. The things you learn in Leader Specific can make the difference between a den that suceeds or a den that just gets by (got plenty of those in my Pack). If you are a Bear or a Webelos Leader consider Outdoor Webelos Leader Training (OWL), it is the same concept as BALOO just geared up for older boys. I have always tried to get as much training as possible, I feel that is important to the sucess of the boys. When dealing with young boys there isn't really too much training.

It is not my goal or desire to take anything away from the boys just so they can earn all 20 badges. My son will have earned 6 by the time scouts start back and there are other boys who will earn 4 or 5. It is not really as hard as I initally thought if the boys work hard toward it. I am not going to take away from them working with the Boy Scouts nor their other activities just to get something done. The whole thing is a team building exercise and something to show them they can achieve big when they work hard. I have 3 other leaders helping me and a good supply of parents, that are all in the same page, we will work toward what the kids want. Nobody is forcing them, and everything is designed to have fun. NeilLup: I can not understand why you think that boys should not attempt nor be recognized for a great achievemet (earning all 20 badges). I don't think working towards this will burn any of the boys out and if it seems that way then I will stop. I want these boys to be prepared to move on and know that they can push each other and work together and achieve great things, not just settle for getting enough to pass (school already teaches them that).

I am going to take the advice of the group and wait until after my Webelos move up to become a MBC. I would rather make sure they are ready to become Boy Scouts and then continue to help them as a MBC. ScoutNut: What is your problem man? Does it really matter how long I have been involved with scouts or how long my son has either? I don't go through life wondering what I can get, rather I go through thinking how can I give or help. I already know more than a good portion of those out there, that is why the previous den leader handed me the reigns because I had more knowledge of what we are heading into and I am more motivated to get things done. By the way, my son did more in 4 months than a most scouts do all year. He earned: Bobcat and Bear ranks, Whittling Chip, 4 BL's, World Conservation Award, 2 Arrow Points, and won the Pinewood Derby (with a car that only had 3 wheels for the last 4 races). Are you just one of those people who sits back and criticizes and complains about everything but never does anything?

I am going to take the advice of the group and wait until after my Webelos move up to become a MBC. I would rather make sure they are ready to become Boy Scouts and then continue to help them as a MBC. ScoutNut: What is your problem man? Does it really matter how long I have been involved with scouts or how long my son has either? I don't go through life wondering what I can get, rather I go through thinking how can I give or help. I already know more than a good portion of those out there, that is why the previous den leader handed me the reigns because I had more knowledge of what we are heading into and I am more motivated to get things done. By the way, my son did more in 4 months than a most scouts do all year. He earned: Bobcat and Bear ranks, Whittling Chip, 4 BL's, World Conservation Award, 2 Arrow Points, and won the Pinewood Derby (with a car that only had 3 wheels for the last 4 races). Are you just one of those people who sits back and criticizes and complains about everything but never does anything?

My Webelos have high goals this year and the next (before they become Boy Scouts) and I told them if they would work hard I would make sure I would work just as hard for them to achieve their goals. I don't want to take any time away from them and I know that Webelos can be more time consuming than the other ranks of Cub Scouting. However, I do want to give back to the scouts in every way I can. The Merit Badges I am looking into our Drafting, Architecture, and Engineering. Are these popular Badges? I don't want to do something just to say I am doing that (of CM does enough of that for the whole Pack) but I can't take away from my den. I guess I am just trying to gather information to make a better informed decision.

Can I be both a Webelos Leader and a MBC for the Boy Scouts at the same time? Has anyone had any experience with this? From what I read there is no conflict but is it possible there would be, how much time is involved with being a MBC? I have 2 young kids, one in scouts, is this going to be too much for me to handle?

tyris620: The Rangemaster for both BB's and Archery do have to sign off on any BL's or pins, and they did so. This was a Council Cub Day Camp and after we worked through the week the Rangemaster for each discipline told the leaders to record that they had earned the BL. They have a listing of every boy that attended the camp and which days and activities he participated in case this ever comes into question the Rangemaster can check his sheets and verify. Pack212Scouter: After discussing things with you, I am going to let everything stand. The boys have earned the Sportsman Badge, and I have no question about that. They have embraced what the badge was intended to do and that is what matters. Concerning disc golf, I am not attempting to nor did I adjust this requirement. I was simply making a point that when my son was a Bear and earned the Ultimate BL he did it through the disc golf part of Ultimate which is okay. I would not have done this to count as a team BL, we actually played ultimate as a patrol to earn that. Here is what the Ultimate Belt Loop guidelines say: 1. Explain the rules of ultimate or disc golf to your leader or adult partner. 2. Spend at least 30 minutes practicing ultimate or disc golf skills. 3. Participate in a game of ultimate or disc golf. They may need to consider re-looking at these guidelines in the future.

Basementdweller: This was in no way intended to be a race for my boys nor I try hard and I will give the patch anyway type of thing. These boys choose to work toward this goal, knowing it would be hard and I told them I do what I needed for them to suceed. I fully agree with you and gscan that each badge should be earned individually. I don't think it directly states that except in some places but I want the boys to know what they are working on and earning and truly earn each one. I have thought through and planned on lesson plans that utilize working on multiple requirements at the same time and using Pack activities toward some requirements but I am not going for a 2 for 1 deal. I think a lot of people misunderstand my goal and questions. I don't want to give these kids a badge, nor drag them along to earn it, I also don't want to manipulate the rules and guidelines for them. All I really want to do was work hard with them toward a big goal that they too want and I wanted to know if it could be done before I did something to let them down. I believe young boys need hard goals, they need to be obtainable and I know how proud they will be if they all stand and receive this badge in 2 years, one they earned through hard work.

We just finished up our Day Camp last week, my son and I both had a blast. Our fee was $60 for 5 days (8-5) and there was a $15 discount if a parent was willing to volunteer for 3 days or more. Both his and my shirt where included, all supplies and crafts (birdhouse, boat, bug house), 2 good snacks, awards and patches all for $45. I can't find a day camp anywhere else that I could send my son for less than $125 for the week. We had a tot lot, but only for the kids of volunteers and they participated in opening and closing but only male siblings or friends could come with the scout unless they where tot lot aged and they had to be registered with BSA. The only thing the camp didn't pay for was belt loops or activity badges earned during the week, they expect the parents or pack to pick up that which is sensible.

I don't have any problems with the adults in my den wearing the full uniform. When I took over the den, I made sure that both Assistants knew that I planned on holding uniform inspections and that a full uniform for them would be expected as well. They both went out and got the pants. Don't get me wrong, I want the kids to have a fun and rewarding experience in scouts but I also want them to be prepared for Boy Scouts. I make sure that I set the example by always wearing my uniform, no matter if its a den meeting, pack meeting, pinewood derby, etc. I want all the boys to know that the leaders support them and we won't ask them to do anything we are not prepared to do ourselves.

I intend to bring the entire 'Uniform' issue up at our first leaders meeting of the scouting year. Our Pack lacks leadership and organization, they just kind of do whatever, whenever, and the boys follow suit. That is why I believe that I am fast going to become one of those 'like me or hate me' guys, because I am very organized, I stick to a schedule and expect parents and other volunteers to do the same. I am going to sit down with the parents and the kids and let everyone know what is expected, especially uniform wise and that if there are any problems, questions, or concerns to come talk to me. I believe that change comes within and that when the older boys and volunteers set the example everyone else will eventually follow. Perhaps it will not work out that way, but at least the my boys will be ready for Boy Scouts, the CM is responsible for the rest.

I know that not all the kids have the pants and I don't think they required them in the past, however we have a district competition in February in which Uniforms is one thing they are graded on so I am going to have to make the pants required. I know this is problably not going to go over well and I will have some complaints but the competition is a team thing so they have to learn to sacrifice for the team.

I understand that beginning to implement Uniform Inspections during Webelos is a good idea to get them ready for Boy Scouts. We have never had a Uniform Inspection before, nor have any of the other dens to my knowledge. I am just now taking over our den, in the past they where just the shirt, sometimes a pack t-shirt, sometimes street clothes, some kids where the whole uniform but not many. How do I go about implementing this? Should I be easy at first, then get harder or stick to the guidelines all the way through? I was thinking of implementing a calendar with an A, B, C uniform code, A being pack t-shirt, B being uniform shirt tucked into blue jeans, and C being full uniform. Also once we become a patrol I would like to use this decide who is the patrol leader for the month (without repeating the same child). Has anyone tried anything like this?