Pack 116 Scouter

Thanks...we are proud of what the boys achieved...facing their fears and jumping into what they new was going to be dark, cold, murky waters...but they did it because of their Assistant Cub Master. The boys still talk about the event...and are still pretty pumped about it all! Lawrence J. Swanz

Steve, I felt compelled, as a lot of the arguing that was taking place on the thread was due to "assumptions", and I figured I could answer a lot of those "assumptions" and set the record straight. Anyway, it was a great time, one we hope to repeat in future years. With that being said, we are in hopes that we will be celebrating his remission... Lawrence J. Swanz

Good day all, I'd like to take this opportunity to respond to some of the questions/accusations made in this thread. First and for most I'd like to thank those that have shown support what our boys did and why. Also, I'd like to thank those that have asked the "hard" question, and to this I wish to reply. Also, a quick note, I was made privy of this forum by a parent from my den who stumbled across this conversation. She was so taken back by some of the comments that she contacted me right away and sent me the link. I only just joined minutes ago so that I may respond to some of the questions/accusations and possibly shed light on what and how the event came about. First off, I'm the fella who organized the event. It simply started off as a den activity which I thought my recently awarded Bears would enjoy. What a great way to make the transition from a Wolf to a Bear than to do it by participating in a "Polar Bear Plunge"! When I first suggested it to my den/parents, the boys were all for it, the parents, not so much. Shortly into the planning stage though it was suggested that if we indeed were going to do the plunge, why not have the boys jump for a cause. What better cause then to jump in behalf of our Assistant Cub Master who had recently been diagnosed with stage four lung cancer. So, since I'm somewhat new to scouting myself and not familiar with all of the policies and regulations, I involved our Pack #116, Gateway District and Central Minnesota Council by presenting the idea to them and obtaining their blessing. The Pack left the decision to the District/Council, as this was their first...come to find out it was the same for the District/Council. Actually, their first response to my idea was, Why?????. Upon explaining the chain of events that brought it about, the research I had done with the event organization, ALARC. One quick interjection here, the Star Tribune took my comments out of context. Yes, it is true, when I first spoke to ALARC about our boys making the plunge I did ask if we could wear our uniform. They said it would be best if they didnt, as yes, when the shirts become wet they would stick to their bodies. I then explained to them the significance of wearing the shirt, that it would identify the boys for whom they are and why they were doing the plunge. The saw no real hazard and simply suggested that we have folks set up at the end to get those shirts off quickly. So, as you can read, we didnt go against them, they saw the reason for our request and approved it. Also, if some of you watched the many videos of that mornings event, there were many who wore some sort of extra clothing or costume to make themselves stick out of the crowd. So it isnt a rule, but a suggestion on whether one can or should wear additional clothing in addition to their two requirements, that being a swimsuit and ten-a-shoes. Also, it was because of our story of why the boys wanted to wear their uniform shirts that ALARC took it upon themselves to involve their resources and bring in the many news media that covered our story. By the way, that led our den activity to be boosted up to a Pack level event, however, we didnt have much time to make it a pack level event, as we were only notified a couple days prior to the event of ALARCs doings. As I said, I had originally set it up as a den activity a month prior to the event, so we had time to properly plan, get training, and approval for the event. In case someone started reading that this was a fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants operationit wasnt. But alas, Im getting ahead of myself. As I said, I researched the event. I spoke with organizers, which have been hosting this event for nineteen consecutive yearswith no accidents. To ensure that this is a safe swim event, as stated by Bob, the area was set up with safety in mind. The water started out at roughly 4-1/2 feet to five feet of water, where the rope draped across. Once beyond the rope the water level quickly jumped to 3-1/2 feet and tapered upwards to 3 feet of water where the ladders were in place. They had rescuers in proper attire should the need arise. They also had two EMT vehicles on site along with a dozen qualified divers/cold weather rescuers. Two of them you could see walking along side with drag poles assisting those that chose to be towed through the event. Also, prior to the event commencing, when they first cut the hole in the ice the day before, they had a diver check the bottom of the dive site to ensure that there were no obstacles lurking in the murky path. To ensure that the icy hole didnt freeze over and leave jagged icy edges, a boat motor was set in place to keep the watering churning to keep it from re-freezing. Also I took the safe swim defense course online, which was a provision I needed to meet to properly fill out a tour permit, which I did do and was approved. Yes, this event isnt for everyone, but as discussed by others, here in Minnesota we are a little more hearty for the colder temperatures. It is not uncommon on days following a long cold snap of sub zero temperatures that you will see us standing outside in our T-shirts or skiing down slopes with nothing more on then pants, shirt, scarf and cap. I know it is hard to phantom. But to put this in a little more perspective, in the early to late fall when the temperatures dip into the mid fifties, youll see everyone running around in heavy jackets hunkered down trying to keep warm. But by mid winters end, a fifty degree day and youll see sun bathers out! Once again, Im not saying this event is for everyone, but a lot of thought, preparation, and safety was considered before we took the actual plunge. Personally, and I was the fella who jumped in with the two scouters, one my son, and the other one of the boys is from my den; but I really never got cold. It could have been that I was on a natural high that day. But I really never got cold. My assistant den leader, who cant even take a luke warm shower, said the same. Now not everyone reacted the same, but no one really had a chance to get that cold. Yes, one of the boys, actually it was Dar Durants son, Jesse, who made the comment, I knew it was going to be cold, but I didnt think it would hurt! He himself said hed do it again. Anyway, we had them out of their shirts and inside a warming hut within minutes of the event. Actually, the boys all have said they do it again next year. At this point and time, about half the pack has said the same. Well have to see. To follow upthe two boys that started the jump are WEBLOS IIs and as previously mentioned, one of those boys is the son of the fella we jumped for. The fella that jumped after me is my assistant den leader, and he jumped with his son. The next up was one of my den parents and his scouter. He was followed up by our Cub Master and his son and the Committee Chair and her daughter. All and all we had seven scouts jump and four leaders with one additional parent and sibling. Yes, the buddy system was used throughout the event. Yes, we got permission to only wear the shirts. They were in full uniform for the early morning interviews. But minutes prior to the event commencing, we switched into our swimsuits and approved shirt only. We also had every other button un-buttoned so that we could quickly get them out of their shirts upon rising from the icy waters at the end. Yes, we had council approval for obtaining pledges. The Durants had a cancer fund that was created for their benefit, that was what the news media ran. That cancer fund is outside of the pledges the boys obtained from friends and family. We did not go door to door and solicit money, so we are not in violation of the fundraising BSA rulesat least the way I interpret them and the way the Council approved the fundraising. So once again, we were not in violation of that either. So, as Bob has pointed outwhat BSA rules have we violated? One person referenced seven possible violations, but chose not to state what they were. Not sure how I can respond to that. I need to know what those alleged violations are to see if whether or not we were in violation or not. As to the comment about the young lady who passed out from the shock of the water. Sadly, one can pass out from many different things. The boys were waiting in eighteen degree air temperature minutes to the plunge, waiting for our turn. The water is at 32 degreesplus or minus. It has to be at least 32 degrees or it will be ice. And actually, it is slightly warmer than 32 degrees, as it is the lower air temperature that causes the ice to form. Anyway, in all actuality, the water was warmer then the air temperature. So it wasnt as big of a shock to the system as would have been if you are standing in seventy or eighty degree air temperature and jumping into 32 degree temperature water. Once again, I appreciate all of the comments, both good and bad. I hope my comments will shed some light on how the event came about, the preparation that was involved, and the safety swim measures put in place to ensure it was a fun and pleasant activity for those boys that participated. And yes, at this time, it is an event that is being planned as a repeat. Some of you, by the comments youve made, wont like to hear that. But, well, sorry, I cant make everyone happy. Im only trying my best to do what is in the best interest of our scouts and to ensure we live by the mottos from the scouting program and those Ive learned from my military back ground. Sincerely, Lawrence J. Swanz