ozemu

mmm fair enough Those concerns will not be the case though. If someone wants to sign up for consectutive terms that is ideal. The point is the parents promise to find a replacement for when the leader wants to retire - that way a leader can pass the baton rather than feel guilty or hang around until they are exhausted and fed up. As long as the leader makes the program available to a minimum standard it doesn''t matter if the Scouts do not / can not attend. The contract is an agreement. The one being reviewed here currently was written as a template, read and ammendments requested by the leader and approved by the committee. He is reading it again now. It a consultative process whereby both parties know the deal. This particular leader expects that he will progress from the Pack to the Troop at the end of his contract. Here that is the same parent comittee. The contract helps the parents budget and plan for a sustainable leader team. My peers tell me that the hardest thing to do is to remove a leader who is under performing. So the contract should show that clearly when it is reviewed. Probably the review will happen when something falls short. If you were offered the chance to have the parents promise to give you specific support what would you like to see in there?

I have been designing a contract between the parent body and the individual leader. It contains some promises such as: to run a certain minimum number of camps etc to be replaced by another adult by a set date to be reimbursed for various expenses including a token allowance for updating camping or uniform gear annually to achieve fully trained standard by half way through the term of ''''employment'''' (looks to be 2-3 years) and other stuff My aim is that both parents and leaders will know what they are getting involved with. Too many of us here are employed until death or burn out with little to no help. And there have been stories from my peers about difficulties in getting rid of people who were never or have become the wrong people for the job. We don''''t have chartered organisations here. No such thing. Managing adult leaders is a purely a parent body issue. Has anyone got experience with such an agreement and any suggestions for me pls?

Sorry - Opera did something weird with the wand and I have deleted this post.(This message has been edited by ozemu)

Infoscouter that is gooood. Might have something there. Lisabob I''m afraid I don''t have a Communications MB handbook. There isn''t an elec copy of around? Maybe I''ll Amazon one - price starts at $10 though. If I was to get a copy does the handbook contain insructions and advice that would be understood by a 12 year old? pargolf44067 having the program at the top is probably the catch point for most parents. Good advice. I wasted a bit of time on an Outlook email newsletter last night. Too complicated for most of our parents to steer. I think a basic word doc will be better. Internet is slower here. I hoped the email designed newsletters might download quicker but you can''t have everything. And basic seems best.

eagle90 your email is simple and useful. Not pretty but workmanlike. I would be happy to recieve such a newsletter because I can simply scan it and get information. Which is kind of the opposite to the way I was heading. You know looks good, photo''s laid out to be attractive. Got me thinking there. Thanks

Eisely there is only one standard mail charge here. Everything else is express. We are looking at a paper copy as many of the parents don''t have email or even a computer. I was astounded when I found out. The pdf writer is a good suggestion, thanks CNY Scouter. Thanks also for the website links. That was my number one priority for communications but given what I just wrote that has slipped down a tad now. And youth content is a must - only realised that when having a shower this morning. Why do the best ideas happen in the shower?

In my new (Scouting) job I see a need for a newsletter. A search of the last 12 months doesn''t show the topic as much discussed. I wish to have a cost effective single A4 page mailed to each Scouts home. We intend to do this monthly excluding the holiday period (Dec-Jan down here). What works for you? double column, tri fold with address on one side, news and programs, camp paperwork, photo''s???????? Anything about newsletters goes here people. Websites etc are another issue and worthy of another thread if you want to examine those topics. This one is about paper mailed to a Scouts home.

Red Feather I reckon that sounds good - doing a re-run. But to be truthful I am waist deep in recruitment of leader issues and an upcoming trip to Vanuatu in May 08. But if I can get a new SL then I'll put it to them. Doing an MB exchange won't be hard - just haven't got motivated leaders about the place at present. We'll hook up after Christmas eh? Not interested in meeting up with us in the Pacific in May are you?

Red Feather I reckon that sounds good - doing a re-run. But to be truthful I am waist deep in recruitment of leader issues and an upcoming trip to Vanuatu in May 08. But if I can get a new SL then I'll put it to them. Doing an MB exchange won't be hard - just haven't got motivated leaders about the place at present. We'll hook up after Christmas eh? Not interested in meeting up with us in the Pacific in May are you?

Yes - I remember. We had some of those blue cards turn up here when we did an exchange (well it was pretty one way really) with Red Feather of this forum. Our Scouts did the fishing and Indian lore MB and eventually got both badge and cards sent over. The last wearer of said badges aged out only two months ago. I think he said some heads got scratched when he wore uniform at the Jamboree in Jan this year. It was great for our Scouts. They got really keen. Big thanks to Red Feather and the crew in BSA who helped out. Only wish we could have helped in the other direction.

Fair enough too. Here every Scout (Cub, Scout, Venturer,Rover) has a passbook with all of the possible badges listed and each test is signed off individually. A complete record in one place. Just the thing for washing machine tragedy. Our state HQ would have no idea who has earned what - everything relies on one book in the less than reliable hands of exuberant youths. It is different in other states. Up north you had to put in a form to get badges for each Scout by their registered number. That was a few years ago.

Oh John - that was good!

Thanks for the addition Moxieman. I've been reading posts here for years and still don't know what we are all talking about. Story of my life really. You only give out badges 3-4 times per year! Mean bludgers. I pin them on their shirts the day they earn them. We keep a stock of all available badges (multiples of the popular ones) and I keep safety pins in the box with them. For kids from dysfunctional families I use three or four safety pins per badge because it might take weeks for me to teach them to sew or for someone at home to take notice. But making them wait three months - shame on you guys

Try the word 'thongs' then HiLo. Seriously there are some things that I am still a bit shaky on: Court of Honour - seems to be where Scouts are interviewed and recommended for 'advancement' to the next award level. I don't think the Scouts are involved. It is an adult check that everything has been completed and involves some questiuons that seem to trip the adults up. Some see themselves as the approving authority and the questions are vital - others see it differently Patrol Leaders Council (PLC) - Troop Council Council - Region COR - For the few sponsored Groups here that means the rep from the sponsoring agency. But the COR is way more involved than I think our version is - this is all supposition as I have never met anyone involved with a sponsored group. Fast Start - a 3 hr video that is what all Group Comitteee members and Leaders do. After that the leaders can progress onto further training, but they don't need to apparently Leaders - in BSA there seem to be lots. Where we have an SL and maybe two ASL if lucky the BSA Troop may well have as many leaders as Scouts. Not always but seems to be reasonably common. Group committee executive are considered leaders. They can wear uniform. Troop leadership - In BSA there are about a thousand positions a Scout can have that is a leadership position without be APL, PL or Troop Leader. Transition - Going up. In BSA kids are often in age patrols (all same age) and they transition up as a team into the Troop. They then stay in that patrol (name changes happen) for years. They swap PL position every six months or so. Being USA they vote these changes through. First Year Patrol - they often stick all of their new Scouts in a single patrol to get them through to level 2 of their award scheme. Eagle - Queens Scout Venture Scouts - Venturer; but this is a separate part of BSA. It has girls and the age range is the same as ours. But a Venture Crew (not unit I think) is not linked to a Scout Troop. Venture Scouts do adventurous activities. So do ordinary Troops but - no girls. Scouts can be aged 11-18. Venture Scouts 14-18. So when aged 14-18 they have to choose between the two. DE -District Executive - no equivilant. They have an employed manager(probably other staff) at District level. The DE is not uniformed. They seem to be focussed on sponsorship and lots of rules and forms. They don't have Groups and don't know what a GL is. Hope that helps you HiLo and pls Americans if I was wrong above pls correct me.

There - that worked alright.

Oh that auto detection thing is irritating. they censored the bere label. I'll space it out to trick the computer... X X X X

mmmmm I grew up 30 minutes drive from Steve Irwin and my cousins live there just up the road from Australia Zoo. I wear khaki shorts like Steve and a big hat like Paul, I drive a 4WD (SUV), I've killed and eaten things with my knife (US K bar), my wife is at least as beautiful as Linda Koslowski, I had a pet roo (called Digger) when I was a teenager, I use vegimite on toast and as axle grease...well that last bit is stretching the truth a tad. We're more like the Crocodile Hunter and Mick Dundee than we might at first think. Actually I get mistaken for Russell Quoit quite a lot (he's probably a mystery in the land of the free but HiLo should get a laugh). I don't drink beer. Rummmmm. But the funniest thing about beer where I grew up was that was called ####. That's it ####. That's the brand - not censoring. They reckon Queenslanders can't spell bere so it was labelled ####. What drivel. And have you seen how much padding our footballers wear.... maybe we are a bit dull.

Several of my Scout Leaders and all of the ones I was with for years were my fathers - figuratively speaking.

G'day cobber!! at last someone else here who I might be able to understand without scratching my head. No - seriously the terminology in BSA is a bit different. Not to worry the people here are pretty helpful and understanding when I post way off the mark. I'm a GL in NE NSW. Was SL here for 6 yrs prior and ASL at various places for another 10 yrs before that. Good to meet you. I'm not around this site much at present. Work, family, study - you know how it goes. If you want me probably best to personal message me see ya

I did the carbon casserole once as a Scout. Yes - carbon through and through. But it made excellent fire lighting material. We kept that carbon casserole for billy (pot) boiling races.

A few years ago the Troop was absolutely singing. A very full and active program with very committed Scouts who gave anything a go. I got busier. The Scouts were less adventurous. Now I am about to retire as SM, the Troop is smaller than it ever has been and the Scouts are not motivated. My own kids have been in there as the decline has arrived. Not what I planned. And although there may be some truth to the correlation of my busy family and work life and the decline of enthusiasm I don't buy the line. It happens to be that there is an ebb and flow. We've all seen it in Scout units. We just happened to get one with a bunch of 'can someone else organise it all' Scouts running the show and me unable to contribute the time to work the Troop through the tough time. I'm not beating myself up. But 15 plus years and six with this Troop has ended very unsatisfactorily. I'm more sad that others could not do for me and mine what I did time and again during the last couple of decades. My efforts have certainly not been wasted - but I do feel a little cheated. Time for a cuppa (tea) I think...

People swear for different reasons. it's 'cool' it' socially unacceptable (in many places) and therefore really attractive to rebellious teens - you know, the ones who gainsay pretty much everything and have nothing positive to say they have hit their thumb with a hammer - maybe their home life is full of swearing. There is not much we can do there except show and enforce that we behave to suit the environment. ie Pls don't swear at Scout events. to add emphasis (not the best way but vocabulary is limited for many teens - evidence my son 'ug, ummph and nuarghh') to be upsetting why are the Scouts in your sons Troop swearing? Regardless I ask people 'to swear more quietly'. Not being a prohibition it normally lets the offender know that it is not admired, is unwarranted, and that I want to hear them saying other things. Mind you I have heard some extraordinary things from all sorts of mouths when people jump off high rope elements (Pamper Pole for instance). I ignore that. People are under a lot of pressure up there. When I was an Army officer I swore. But only at work. My soldiers couldn't relax in my company until I started swearing. They thought I was an odd ball and didn't trust my motivation (thought I was going to preach to them). So I started swearing and they were alright. They came from a different social background I suppose. My parents were very poor farmers. They were mostly city people from poor areas. You see, in that environment most of the swearing replaces words like 'very, really, horribly, hugely, extraordinarily, oddly, queerly, bafflingly, questionably, superbly, amazingly etc. Instead they had just four words - three of which had four letters. When I left the army I asked the kids I worked with to pull me up if I slipped into army language. Never happened. Different environment. So I try to teach how to adapt to environments and to be flexible.

sex and 14 year olds. This topic comes up regularly here. Pardon if my response is a tad blunt. We have been coed for years. I believe some kids might jump in each others tents and what follows is natural. But I have over 15 years as an ASM or SM. Never seen it. Not in my Troop or ANY other. Not even at Jamboree's (Four so far). NEVER. Why? - Scouts are generally sensible. It takes two to tango and so two need to be dills. Tent walls are thin. Adults have eyes and ears. The other Scouts are not all dills. They can pursue sex elsewhere more easily. It is more the thought than the reality for them (and some US Scouters). The average age of first intercourse (according to one study) is 16 in Australia and Scouts max out in age at 15 here. Coed Venturers is more problematic but they seem to manage it. Now is the max age at 15 a good thing? I certainly hate watching my 15 year olds leaving Scouting. Transition to another Group (Groups work well-definately) is difficult and we are not big enough to support a Venturer Unit. So they leave Scouting. If they had a choice I would set them to work as junior ASM's and they would be happy as Larry for at least a further 12 months or more. But I don't have a choice in this.

Our street image

Hi Eamonn, it's been a while - how are you? I have 84 girls on expedition tonight. Two leaders are having trouble with their students. The kids are being rude and oppositional. One of the groups got into camp way after dark and over a mile short of where they should be. I had suggested that the leader doesn't take the girls rudeness to heart. And that if they persisted in disrupting her various briefings that she lets them take over. And refuse to help until they have well and truly stuffed things up. Maybe that's what she did this afternoon? Whether she handed over the reins or not the late arrival etc will provide lots of depth to earnest discussions about responsibility, respect etc. Scouting does that too. Natural consequences are better parents than I could ever hope to be. So I let lots of natural consequences happen. And in a cruel and purely selfish fashion it would have been fun watching them tear themselves apart! In the morning they might listen make keenly! Most parents would not allow that to happen but most Scouters do this (to some extent). Not being their parent might allow them to desist with tooth brushing but can also mean that the Scouts sleep on the side of a rocky hill rather than in a pleasant grassy spot. We are not being soft. But detachment and objectivity are more easily ours than for parents.