ozemu

Sorry BW. Wasn't trying to link It's Me with BSA arrangements. I was trying (probably hamfistedly) to help with applying the Patrol method.

From my side of the fence you're on the right track Its Me. The calender. Fix it so that weekends are put in there for Patrol activities. If they are new at it the activity is a day thing. If they have experience it's a camp. All Patrols out on the same weekend or over a couple and at different venues is the Patrol Method bubbling along nicely. Over here if the Parol Activity is more than 10 hours long it counts toward advancement. They need one per level. That helps too. We aimed for one every quarter. Didn't always get that but mostly did. Can you change the calender to read 'Patrol' rather than 'Troop' camp? That may be changing the way things are done. It will involve lots of coaching and practice for the Patrols. These things may be culture shock and meet with resistance. I know it is not as simple as replacing one word with another. 300 foot rule. It works I think. If the Patrols are to learn within a comfort zone the parents, PL's and Scouts will need the adults along to teach sometimes and to govern at others. So on Troop camps I would get the PL's together. We would walk over the available ground and decide where we would all put our Patrols. The adults were central'ish' and teh most capable Patrols were furthest away. Sometimes one would be out of sight and another would be a basketball length away from me. All depends on the abilities. Troop parades etc. Essential if there are events run as a Troop or in a bull ring for Patrols to learn, practice, compete or be tested. Often a resouce (eg resus dummy) may only be available for a day. The Patrols need to get through this and when more than one Patrol is on deck we have a Troop and thereofre we have adults along too. 20-25 minutes for a PL to get some stuff done is enough. Most can barely handle that with all of the distractions that are around on a Troop night. This is not to say the Patrol meetings don't work. The PL just needs to have more control over the wider environment for Patrols to focus and get into things. So if I had a Patrol that wanted to meet elsewhere on a Troop night or instead of a Troop night then that was great. Didn't happen much so it defaulted back to Patrol camps and activity dates from the calender. For most PL's more than 15-25 minutes is a bit daunting - it takes planning and preparation (more then one hour!) and they have school work, non-Scout activities, family etc. In the end we work with the resources and knowledge that we have and it turns out differently everywhere we go. It's supposed too. Hope that helped - It's Me. If it works then make small tweeks and keep the baby.

I haven't been a Patrol Leader for a very long time but I use the leadership skills that I learned and used every day. Not that the Patrol Method is the only way to learn this but by heck it works well and is pretty simple. Is there some confusion in BSA about the Patrol Method (PL, APL and a few Scouts) and the Troop Method (SPL, ASPL, Scribe, CoH, Troop Council etc)? Certainly is over here.

We have a lot of experience with small Troops. You did the right thing dropping to two Patrols. I suggest that you resist the temptation to create another Patrol until the existingones are absolutely full strength. I'd even recommend going for up to 10 per Patrol. Why? Because you have an unique opportunity to train your junior leaders for the next few years as a small and manageable group. You can give this training period all of your attention. And you want it to be successful. Imagine arranging a camp to find that a key member of one Patrol can't make it and that makes another anxious about coming. That takes a Patrol of six to four in one go. In a Patrol of 10 it makes no difference. Large Patrols can always camp alright. The jobs are distributed thinner and young Scouts aren't overburdened by preparing for and cleaning after a meal. There are other arguements about Patrol camping sizes. Take a look thorugh the archives here but that's my offering. Use this opportunity to train your leaders for the future. Leave the Troop positions vacant as Beavah suggested. Unless you have Scouts aged over 14 who are pretty together maturity wise. We don't have Troop leadership positions in Australia. Because our Scouts age out at 15. Below that age it is hard for a young fella to manage other leaders. PL is a good position but SPL etc is expecting them to be a CEO when they have yet to get their MBA. Some exceptional types do it - the rest cannot. Brain formation, personal expereience and even the hormonal drive toward other interests I suspect are involved in making this style of leadership hard for under 15 year olds. You don't mention Scouts older than that. Disregard this if you have older Scouts. You will have Patrols that work really well. What happens inside a Patrol is the core of the Patrol system. Troop leaders will become of age in another year if I read your post right.

Imagine his pleased surpirse if he said his words and then on her turn she opens with 'On my honour....'

Eamonn really! We Scouters should be great gardeners. You just have to follow the same processes that we do with Scouts. Listen to the vocabulary. Chop off the tall poppies. Pull out the weeds. Nip them in the bud. Cut out the dead wood. Let fallow ground lie. Not too much sun. Reap what you sow. Plant (your tent) for the morning sun. Companion plant. Prune viciously. Be careful about fungus. Put down some roots. hmmm Green thumbs? Needs antibiotics. Maybe that one doesn't work very well. Oh come on - you're not trying! You're being melancholy. Maybe it's the rain making you mouldy. Now if you came down here to visit you could enjoy the driest May in 100 years.

Paracetemol asprin antihistamine ventalin inhaler and spacer ibuprofen (more for me - never administered any, have yet to have a need that my training indicated it should be used) codeine (for me in case back stops working - script is for me alone) brand - travel calm, over the counter med, kit isn't at home so can't quote the drug in a separate box with specific protocol laminated and folded inside; antihistamine, cortizone, adrenalin, sharps for same Now Beavah this is my personal kit. I do not allow others to use it - not access drugs anyway. The Scout kit is in woeful state and I have never seen one I would trust. Ever. 15+ yrs in Scouting as an adult. Never used a unit kit even when they existed.

One of our tests for a required badge for advancement is to make a personal first aid kit. I require that it contains one dose of an over the counter pain relief used at home. It comes from home. They buy and provide it. I advise them when to take it and watch it happening. I do not force the issue. Would that work with you guys?

Needing to assist someone with adrenaline we also thought to be unlikely. Yes I have had kids turn up who I found out were anaphylactic after we had left base for a few days. But it generally takes some time to come on. People who have never had a reaction generally build up the condition over several exposures to the sing etc. The instant reaction types are not common. BW's % goes way down. Miniscule. Having to use adrenalin unexpectadly is quite remote. So are we. What is the worst case I could think of? Watching someone die and trying to ease that passing with 17 of their peers nearby and just one totally untrained teacher to help. That's pretty much the worst. Are we prepared for that? If we never use it was the training and prep useful in other scenario's? Does it make us better first aiders if we don't use it? My team certainly feels better. Lots of myth's were dispelled. Our customers are releaved. Some parents allow their children to participate. Advice is that the coroner will take our prep into consideration. My staff member might not curse themselves, me, the workload, etc for the rest of their lives after having had the extraordinarily remote possibility land on them. Be prepared. Train, equip, hypothise, manage risks. Then do it again. And again.

WildernesStudent, Laws may be different down under but here is what we do. All of our staff are seven day FA trained. That includes epipen. But -we operate in places that definitive med care may be some hours from. Not far - just a thick canopy so no helo assistance gauranteed. An epipen may only last 5-15 minutes. Then you need a second. + 20 minutes and a third etc etc. How many to carry? We carry syringes and 3 vial(2 shots per vial = 6 shots) of adrenalin, Also cortizone and antihistamine. While adrenalin is working get the others in. They build up slowly but by the time we have used all six shots they should be working and anaphalaxis is beaten for long enough to evac. How? We got protocol from leading wilderness expedition company's and handed them to an outdoor type Dr. Scouter by the way. He wrote a protocol based on paramed protocols. We 7 day trained couldn't understand it and it also didn't meet the 2am in rain rule for simplicity. I re-wrote it. He re-wrote it tc. He comes out to train our staff annually. We all jab each other and run through teh procedure that tells us when to prepare, when to inject and when to simply give the other drugs. If someone is dying and cannot get drugs down throat - inject. It will not hurt them if you are wrong but blue is a leading colour. So is the noise they make when not breathing more than keeps a fly alive. Not much room for doubt apparently. If we inject and give all the drugs at once their heart will race and they will be looking arounhd for wild elephants but no harm will have been done. Drawing up a needle is not hard and the Dr teaches and tests us. Signed doc etc. We all get and train on teh protocol. We get a cheat sheet laminated in a shaprs container with two needles and three vials along with drugs as described. All separaately wrapped and labelled. All in sharps container. Costs about $20 to kit someone out and shelf life is up to 18 months. Needs prep work but is cost effective. Our med forms have a waiver that allows our staff to administer one dose of over the counter meds; also to operate to extent of training. It was not that big a deal getting it all done. Haven't used it but I would explain what I can do and get their bulging eyed panic permission before things get unconscioius.

Has anyone read the Seven Habits of Highly Effective Teens? Would seem to have some application here. Habits 4-6. Particularly the Win-Win bit. I agree that competition is good - its being determined to win that is the problem. What is the PL team like? Are they a team? If they are a team how can the Patrols compete to the point of being obnoxious? So maybe start working on developing the PLC into a PL's Patrol with the SM as PL. I have at times held PL camps with me as PL. No big agenda - just developing the team and some specific skills for them.

I think that Kudu's weblink explains the difficulty of citing to an individual. Seems the phrase was first used as a caption. Who edited? Probably that person should be credited in joining two phrases by someone else in the preceeding page when they were explaining the theory originated by others. Kudo cites the text. The rest might be impossible. However I care enough to suggest credit (using Kudu's www) to Harcourt et al, fourth and fifth editions of the Boy Scouts of America's Handbook for Scoutmasters, "Scouting is a Game" on page 12 , referring to Harcourt et al, "Chat 2," "The Game of Scouting," on page 24 of the Boy Scouts of America's third edition of Handbook for Scoutmasters in 1936, written by William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt and "Ten Essentials of Scoutmastership" on page 125 of the same text, previously suggested by Baden-Powell (and his editor - just in case)in Aids to Scoutmastership. Then again Olive may have used it off-hand in the presence of Bill over tea and scones in the absence of BP entirely as he was fond of walks and taken to being outside when others were inside. That's a bit cheeky I know - it's a long weekend and I am making the most of the first night before studying and doing chores for the remainer. Dreary, dreary. Thanks for lightening my night.

WildernesStudent I manage an Outdoor Ed Centre near Byron Bay in Australia. Let me know if you venture down under for work or play. May be able to get you some bush experience. Welcome to the inductry - it's great fun but the pay is rotten!

allangr1024 may I suggest you get that brochure stapled to school newsletters if possible. Parents read those - in fact look for them and ask for them. Way more effective than a letter box drop, more widespread than handing them to the converted at a display and cheaper than newspaper ads - more effective too. In my experience they recruit Cubs but not Scouts. In my system that eventually pays dividends anyway - you've just got to wait a few years. Kudu, I care. And again thanks for your work.

I just got a phone call from an ex Scout of mine. He wanted to know what time to be at the memorial tomorrow for the dawn service. 25 April is our national version of remembrance day (which we also observe - WW1 was pretty big for this country so we do it twice - 63% casualty rate does that I suppose). Why bother you with this trivia? I am proud of him and of the spirit that grew amongst the members of our Troop. This young man was a discipline problem, a low achiever and irregular attender. He has some psych/medical-behavioural issues and is generally cheerful despite his rowdy nature. He became a regular attender when he was elected as APL. In his final year he naturally became a leading member of the Troop. He took over as SPL without a vote or badges of rank. He just did it in the absence of his elders. It was his time and he felt a responsibility. Now he continues to be involved with the Troop over six months after leaving. No longer a Scout in uniform he has turned out to be a Scout for real. So tomorrow at 5am I'll be standing in the dark paying my respects to our war dead with him. Makes the SM years worth while to see young trouble-makers find their feet. It's what BP started it all for. Maybe this was something my Grandfathers went to France to protect. Apr 25 is ANZAC Day. We remember the dead and maimed of WWI particularly, as it was a war which caused other nations to notice our county's presence - through the extraordinary feats of the Australian Imperial Force (AIF). Our divisions spear headed every British offensive in 1917 and 1918. Our soldiers were instrumental in stopping the German breakthrough in 1918. Our forces conducted the first all arms battle at Hamel where my Grandad won his first Military Medal. (Still used that battle to teach all arms cooperation when I was doing officer training in '91). We introduced US companies to battle on that same day helping your divisions prepare for what was to come. Our soldiers captured more ground by agressive patrolling than entire campaigns planned by British generals in those years. They broke through the Hindenburgh Line, captured Mont St Quinten, shot down the Red Baron (Lewis gunner - Canadians reckon their pilot did it), were victorious at Messines, Polygon Wood, Broodseinde, Villers-Bretonneux, Amiens, and finally they mutinied. The casualties were so high that Battalions were being disbanded and men transferred to other units. They refused to disband and without officers requested to lead the next attack. They agreed to obey orders again only when allowed to continue wearing their old Battalion colour patches. Proud? Heck yes...of soldiers and of Scouts who show the same spirit. Sorry for the rant. Lest we forget.

Maybe not but it would be pretty cool if they did.

As I recall Scout uniform in 1908 was basically a copy of a military field uniform that was invented in the field and adapted by BP complete with his own badges etc. A few years later there were heaps of surplus mil uniforms and they were encouraged as Scout uniform - cut down to fit for youth members. Heck I've seen photo's of Scouters wearing Sam Brown belts (which were designed for one armed swordsmen). Does BSA encourage the wearing of military medal ribbons with Scout uniform? We do. By the way - over here they have changed the Scout uniform. There are no required trousers. I don't think we can go naked from the waist down but otherwise anything goes. The shirt is navy blue. When I wear Scout uniform the only thing from official scout catalogues are the badges. The Scouts themselves seem to enjoy wearing military camo trousers and surf shorts with their Scout shirts.

I was in a tearing hurry once getting to the weekly meeting. Was already late and they were expecting me to do something so I attended in military uniform. Oddly there was a Scout who had lots of issues with conformity and just plain getting along with others. He was on the verge of being asked to stop coming to give us a chance of progressing along a little. He responded to me being in a military uniform. Asked a few questions etc. A few weeks later we realised that he had turned the corner on his disruptive behaviour. Looking back it seemed to coincide with my wearing of Army gear rather than Scout uniform. I am not advocating that mil uniform is worn to achieve this result. Just that something may have worked out well from me being something other than a Scout - and specifically in this case, me being a soldier. I don't think it hurts to turn up straight from work and show a different side to ourselves if that is the way it happens. We are who we are and I don't put myself nor expect others to pigeon hole themselves too much. Me in Scout uniform is the same as me at home mowing the lawn or at work or in the shower for that matter.

Laws are good too. I remember a few laws by Murphy. It's a preventative thing. By catering for the Murphy law that applies we rarely find it occurs but that one time we do not plan with the Murphy law in mind reinforces their importance. Every time.

I feel humbled RememberShiff. What a response. Big thumbs up from here. That is the opposite to what we do at work. I work at a school camp site. We have many schools use us and we do expeditions up to 12 days long. Lots of on base stuff too. But out in teh National Park the helicopter is alomost gaunteed NOT to come. Rainforest, wind etc. So one epipen will not do. The benefit may only last 15-30 minutes. Two epipens will not do. Definitive medical help may need to walk in some distance and they have been known to get lost too! It might take some hours for the antihistamines and cordizone to kick in - add up the 15 minute epipens! So we have done training for using needles and we carry six shots of adrenalin. A Dr has written the protocol and trained us. We have all got 5-7 day wilderness/remote area first aid under our belts too. Parents sign our med form which authorises us to op within the bounds of our training and we are trained to administer adrenalin to anyone showing the symptoms of severe reaction. The good thing is that even if we get all mixed up and give all three drugs at once we will not kill anyone - they may not be happy if we misdiagnose - but they will be alive regardless. Incidentally a shot of adrenalin costs about $2-50 while an epipen costs upwards of $60. Thats in Australia. And we are considering becoming nut free entirely - which will break my PB heart. But it seems that most school have the anaphalactic aboard. And they are not Scouts RememberShiff, so they don't have the self managament or self governance skills to be responsible. What should you do? Risk assess the Scouts condition, your ability to control, your accesss to med help and add a pinch of salt. Even if the Scouts parents will take a risk 'so he can live a real life' I would take the time to imagine what sort of death it would be if all goes wrong and how a Patrol in a remote area may feel watching and listening to him die. That's our worst case. But if you operate near med help and have epipens then the risk is pretty minor. If he wants a high adventure - get some people trained. It doesn't cost much - a local GP can do it for you. I'll even send our protocol for them to use as a model.

or Pack378, were you refering to the camo pattern rather than the neckerchief/scarf?

Fair enough. I don't know about the specific requirments for Eagle but he is right about Scouting lining up with other distractions (is my bias evident?). Good on him for not doing the '7 miles in the snow to Scouts and 8 miles back' type of yarn too. Keep trotting out snippets like these dan. Keeps it real in here.

Fun can also be in retrospect. How many have laughed many times over and retold the tale about how they forgot something and improvised, got lost or even had an accident? At the time it may not have been fun at all. It's all in the rememberies. So I prefer to think about successful programming in terms of memorable moments. Every meeting must have something that is memorable - something that will (might) be remembered in a years time. At the end of every year we sit eating pizza etc and every Scout tells what they are proudest of and what they will remember the most from the things that happened that year. Some have refered to the night they were invested. We try to make the ceremony significant but it is hardly structured to be fun. But it is remembered fondly. In all other aspects I agree with (as usual) Eamonn et al.

I'm in

Thanks CalicoPenn I love history but to my last days I will mourn the fact that my teacher over four years knew a lot about ancient China and all I ever wanted to study was Rome and the middle ages. I now read historical fiction constantly but I have not read much about the Vikings since I was a boy. Time to go there. You've sparked a flame - thanks for the Christmas present. And Merry Yule Tide.