ozemu

We hand the notes to the Scouts. The parents always get them - not one miss ever that I know of. Everybody knows the routine and parents are on the job asking for notes I guess. We also put out a quarterley program and that reminds parents to ask. If a Scout is missing they are supposed to contact their PL or myself for what they missed - or warning that they are not attending. I have a small enough Troop to know which ones to contact because it is unreasonable to expect those Scouts or parents to manage themselves. You know - marriage problems, exam stress etc. Recently some newer Scouts / parents are not contacting me if they miss a meeting - tough luck for them - they find out next time they show up. If it keeps happening I'll be worried though.

Hi Dan, I used a converter from some university site. Sounded a bit odd - thanks for the help. Ever heard of Deep Ecology? I guess that I follow a denomination of that. Sort of environmental confusionism.

I'm not christian but I hope you all have a good holiday and reconfirm your faith in your way. 24 Dec was dancing around 1280 deg F or 40 deg C. I think I got the conversion right. However our drought may be nearing an end as we have had rain every night since christmas eve. Someone roll a snow ball for me pls - never done that.

"Boy led isn't easy and it often isn't pretty". Great quote Jim6. Can I borrow it? Welcome to the forum.

I did the emergency matchbox with one of the Scout Laws inside. My daughter thought it was pretty cool but otherwise I'll know in Feb when we reconvene. At the same meeting twins now too old for Scouts were farewelled. Among other gifts I gave them each a written personal reference and that was the most appreciatted thing they got it seemed. Might help them get a job later. The simplest things!

Can you visit the Webelos training meetings (roundtable??) and present your problems and intentions in person? Then follow up with a letter that they won't consider a sly underhanded proposal because you have already stood in front of them and laid the cards on the table. Tell the other SM's at your meeting what you are going to do and why. They mightn't like it but at least you can't be accussed of being sneaky.

At a 30 year retirement I helped scan lots of old photo's, added captions (dates, names, silly captions) and someone else did a powerpoint presentation of it all that was played as a cycle all night as a backdrop. Have seen groups posing for photo's in the same positions as a photo from 20 years ago. Interesting to see the two side by side later.

No comments on what procedure to follow but given there is damage I think you need to deliberately target the areas damaged. Go and visit the feeder packs etc and then get some exchange involvement. See if your Scouts can run an activity with them and if this works invite the older boys over for a night with your Troop. I find my feeder pack preffers that I take only a few Scouts rather than the whole Troop and that they teach something. Also remember to pursue all of the PR principles. Get in local papers etc and be seen generally being a good Troop out and about. This way your actions can be seen for what they are which might go some way to mitigating the bad mouthing.(This message has been edited by ozemu)

So Ed, how did it go?

On the basis that BSA has not yet shown its method of operation here and that your country has no national system of screening people in place let me again offer our experience. It may help to allay some worries based on the unknown. This is our experience. Please forgive the long post. Only one personal opinion promise. 1. Screening checks. To follow johnmbowen's concerns for a bit our experience may help show the implementation of the screening checks. Only people 'in charge' of Scouts will need to be checked. This means the high adventure guide doing a one week tuition / guide with BSA Scouters (checked of course) would (technically speaking) not need to be screened - although for seven days it would still be a good idea. The key is that they are the guide and not the leader, or even a leader, in the party. Never without another adult in speaking distance. Hard to do over that period of time. And accidents sometimes need a reorganisation on the fly. So best get them screened (see point 4 for the administrative burden this causes). For a night of tuition - forget it. Keep the helper in the company of a BSA Scouter and you are ensuring that nothing untoward could happen. And the volunteer is protected from the occasional attention seeking and vindictive child (false accusations are rare but happen). I make it a point to NEVER be alone with a child - other than my own and I ensure that my volunteer helpers are never put in that position. 2. Declarations. The parent who car-pools and takes several Scouts to the campsite is 'in charge' during of the car load during the journey. However they are working under supervision from the SM in charge of the convoy and the task is one off and of limited duration less than one day. All of our parents sign a declaration that they are not a 'prohibited person' for this reason. The form is quite clear about what people cannot be employed (voluntary or paid) working with children. See the link for Scouts Australia's declaration - incidentally identical to the declaration of every other youth organisation/business in the country but with our logo. http://www.nsw.scouts.com.au/atd/forms/m5.dot This declaration is (in my opinion) a politically correct action that doesn't provide any protection. But when an offence is committed it allows the prosecution to hit the child abuser with another crime - false declaration. I think this part of our child protection has yet to be developed and is the best that can be done at the moment. 3. What constitutes a failure to pass the screening in our system? I'm no expert but the concerns are convictions or official action in someones past concerning any of the following: physical abuse, emotional abuse, neglect, sexual abuse, domestic violence. No age range is considered (ie victims may be of any age). The 'official action' idea is a bit odd. A teacher found to have acted inappropriately in a violent school incident (they deliberately caused pain (by squeezing the back of a childs neck) to stop that child who was hurting others may not have done anything wrong by law but may not have followed department guidelines and may be administratively disciplined. This would show up in a screening check - again no illegal act nor conviction. I know of such a case. The screening has passed this person as being allowed to work with children. No-one even knows of the incident at the local level. The screening can check the circumstances of a previous incident and dismiss the incident as not likely to occur again. As I stated before the screening is actioned by people (not computers) on the basis of being 'reasonable'. It is not always a mandatory fail - the facts of the case are considered. 4. What is the administrative burden? All applicants for Scouter positions sign the declaration. Any other person we want to work with the kids where they cannot be supervised directly (car pool etc) is also required to sign a declaration. These declarations are filed at regional headquarters. Leader application declarations are all sent to state HQ and screened. Anyone else we want to screen also goes to state HQ. If it all happens at the last minute they can sign the declaration as they enter the scout hall. In our case a clear history can result in a clearance within 24 hours (of its arrival at state HQ). The more murky the past the longer it will take. Those who take many weeks normally result in the person withdrawing their application for screening, the application is binned and they do not get to work with kids. The system has revealed child abuse perpetrators who have served their time and tried to enter Scouts and cadets as voluntary leaders. They never get a second chance. Prior to this system they would not be found out unless they re-offended, which was no protection at all as they move from state to state etc to escape their past.

Hi charmer, just member to membered some thoughts on your problem but also just realised that I have a toy koala mascot on her way to Michigan in Feb-Mar. It will be in Eastpointe. Anywhere near you?

Red Feather potassium permanganate should be recognised in your chemist / drug store(?). One of the attractive things about it is that with any moisture it will stain everything purple and you only need a small amount too. Scouts love the 'risk' of getting stained! Any of the iodine solutions often found in first aid kits will do the same job in purifying water. Not as good as boiling which is safer than any chemical treatment available. Just don't use so much of the iodine / p permanganate / purification tablets that the water becomes unpalatable. With the first two choices the water will always change colour and taste - all depends on how worried you are I guess. As for stating fire with PP you will find that lots of downwards pressure with your thumb in the dish of the spoon and then drag it quickly but only a short distance and the PP will ignite. The sugar will then burn and produce a big long lasting ember that you can pick up in the spoon and carry over to the prepared fire. It works best on an unsanded peice of flat board / lumber (?) Mix the sugar and PP together a bit before starting. As for fire by friction it comes easy to some and others must battle with it. Most scouts pick it up within 5 minutes and under 6 trys.

Fair enough. I can understand the lack of candidates. Who wants to be the runner up in a bad joke? I agree with OGE. They should fix it but may need a real - 'grow up you lot' talk before they get over the incident. Maybe a previous SPL who did a good job and was respected by the boys could get the right idea across. More of a peer than a grumpy SM.

You've got me thinking here. First tell the scouts that it didn't cost much money but is priceless. Give a matchbox or similar, gift wrapped and marked (once the gift wrapping is taken off) with the words 'OPEN ONLY IN EMERGENCY'written on it. Inside put one of the Scout Laws. A bit corny but then an SM is thrifty.

I got a woggle (neckerchief slide?) with the Scouts initials on it made of leather by a local leatherworker for $1 (US) when I left my last Troop. A quick, inexpensive, personalised and very scouty gift which they seemed to appreciatte. My wifes idea!

We often have a shortage of water on the track. (Currently in a 22 month drought). So to keep handwasshing hygenic and small in consumption I use a nylon dog bowl. One of the little ones that you water the dog with when on the daily walk. That and soap in a plastic mesh onion bag hanging next to it. In a standing camp I use dishwashing liquid bottles full of antiseptic solution. I carry potassium permanganate (condies crystals) for water purification (a grain in a litre x 30 minutes), first aid (stronger solution so that it's quite prurple) and fire lighting (condies + sugar both ground up and then friction using a spoon/knife and rock/board).

Looking at OGE's list made me think of two things that can have an enormous impact on the historical data's ability to indicate the future: are the adults who guided the previous success going to remain for the next year or three? same question for the boys who are leading the Troop. Two other elements to rate: Is the Troop financially intelligent? Can your son 'see' himself going outdoors with the Troop - which does he talk about the most after your visits? good luck

I know we are talking different countries but I should think the protocols would be similar. Here a check on a most people comes back within several hours clearing them for working with children. Some checks take a few days, some take weeks. It all depends on what the person has in their background. The interesting thing is that a computer does not make the decisions on clearing nor on giving advice on clearences. The computer records are just that and can have errors. People (not just police but other agencies ie Education, military etc) check on exactly what the records turn up. The person is sometimes phoned or interviewed to check until all reasonable doubt is extinguished. It is a very human process - hence a questionable past takes time to clear. So not just convictions are uncovered. Departmental dismissals etc seem to be accessed. And the subjective elements already mentioned (20 years age he had a joint etc) are dealt with on the basis of 'reasonable man or woman would...' Just did a workshop on this - hope it helps.

Scouts Australia has been doing these checks for many years. The rest of the community is now required to do this as well. There is a national database for child sex abuse convictions that is about to come into existance. Any person working in any capacity with young people must declare on paper that they are not prohibited from such employment. Prohibition means that they have been convicted of the sorts of crimes that were in eisely's post. No protection for the child but puts the criminal in jail for longer if found to be making false declerations. There is international precident for what BSA are doing and if the lawsuits mount up I wouldn't think they stand a chance. eisely's article also states your Little League precedent. BSA would claim costs back anyway. And how far back does it apply? Age 20? The article is not specific enough. It mentions a standard and that the Nat Exec would be informed. This seems to be a BSA standard so I'm sure the courts could advise the BSA on what is reasonable and BSA can make its own judgement in the childrens best interest.

mk 9750, fair enough. I was worst casing the problem. Rereading momandscouts original post there are two possibilities she was considering. 1 - starting a homeschool troop 2 - being a lone scout but attending one or more local Troop's No.2 has some advantages but most replies have concentrated on the social benefits of having peer interaction. In my experience this interaction really only shows results after several days (eg summer camp) or after many weeks (local Troop meetings). If the boy bounces around Troops too much this peer benefit may be missed. We seem to agree that lone scouting has drawbacks. So the following are suggestions for remaining in the local Troop. (Not being BSA I may be 'off' and ask that one of you comment on these suggestions) If attendance and progression is the crux can't these things be organised with the local SM? The Troop program could be followed (in terms of training) by the scout studying what was missed. A homeschooler should do this standing on his head. As he becomes more senior it could probably be arranged that he organises activities while absent and presents them at pre-arranged meetings. An issue was the more rapid advancement of the scout due to the homeschool use of scout program. She suggested a 'break' on his advancement by doing extra's. I would consider this to be her son's privilage to pursue with the oversight of the SM or delegated ASM. Is this correct? Also there is the possibility of OA activities if he is selected. This could slow things down by giving him more to do. I'm sure there are other 'out of Troop' experiences that can provide more activities to even out the advancement. All this would use the local Troop (with all the benefits) and provide the challenge and extension needed by the individual scout.

Momandscout, can you work on the extra's that you mentioned by collecting an 'ad hoc' patrol of scouts from other Troops in the district? A little like the Merit Badge Universities that some Districts seem to have. This way your son could progress in these areas without waiting for or dragging unwillingly the rest of the Webelos / Scouts in your local Pack/Troop. Would the extra's provide an acceptable break to your son's personal progress toward cross-over? (ie will this give him more to do so that he is not oustripping his mates in their progression through only the essentials?). I have some sympathy. My daughter crossed over to Scouts at the minimum age and has rocketed along getting to the first of our three levels in six months (normally a year or so). Consequently she is now a year ahead of her mates and I am wondering how to keep her interested. Also our highest level is pretty rigorous and she may not be mature enough when she gets there if I don't find a way of slowing her down. At the current rate she will need to lead a three day expedition without any adult involvement at the age of 12.

Here is an alternative view to that put up by mk9750 and eagle90. No malice intended and I respect their opinion. I think though that there are other elements to the "Lones or local' decision. Many of the situations in my mind require a decision: to change the local Troop - which is an enormous task with a high chance of not working out and would probably require both son and parent involvement, or to either follow scouting by single effort - likely to be a bigger effort than attending but not changing a local troop. Both options in the decision require more than the standard effort. Apart from the philosophical things there are simple problems of time, space and emotional investment which impact on all other aspects of the family. These practical things must be weighed before a move can be made either way. Does the family have the resources for both the above options or is only one reasonable for them? A bit like the government law analogy. I don't agree with some government decisions either but in trying to keep the wolf from the door and my family in one piece I choose to stay in the country and don't lobby, protest or write letters. I accept that the world is not perfect and that my sphere of influence is only so big. My effort will have a greater impact in other arena's. I have seen lots of kids leave scouting because they don't have the basic resources to effect change. The job was too big. If one wants to become a 'Lone' rather than leave all together then that is one more who gets some benefit from the program. Momandscout's situation will have lots of variables. She cannot become a leader but they may have the drive, creativity and fortitude to effect change in the Troop.

This topic came up before. The discussion was a little different but might be interesting nevertheless. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=6478

Properly trained leader trainers should be able to do proper training. Maybe GS trainers need training - maybe they are doing the best they can. Are there external to GS standards that can be implemented? We have national competency standards for outdoor recreation of all kinds. Surely you have something similar. The good thing about this is that we have to be very serious about our assessment (and therefore our training in the first place) because one day soon we will be audited by an independant regulator and our training license will hang on that. This has made us take the whole standards thing very seriously. Midnight, the answer may be in training (in part) but the training may be needed for leader trainers (given the content of your posts). Can you address this? The other aspect might be selection. I suggest that you talk to Annalisa about that.

I've been doing casual teaching at a secondary school in a roughish area. The kids were giving me a torrid time until the bells went for 11am. They asked what it was for, assembled in a group and were completely silent for the prescribed minute and more. They then went back to playing cricket and giving me a hard time! These kids don't respect much but are aware of and committed to our ANZAC past.