ozemu

absolutely true Bob. Again maybe there are regional differences. I have never seen another Scout of same or lesser age chosen as the victim. Except maybe if the victim actually came out the winner (deliberately arranged). Adults with the appropriate sense of humour are the standard victim; and older Scouts / Venturers who are seen as adults by the other Scouts/Cubs maybe. It could happen just never experienced what you describe as a certainty. Actually once saw a leader force himself on the skit as the victim. He then deliberately overturned the skit to turn the 'animal' into the victim. Not from my Troop but I suspect now that he knew his Scouts and was ensuring that something inappropiate didn't occur. That's our role so it's a safe assumption. Making no point for or against this thread - just an observation born from Bob's post.

True Bob, call it a typo.

Yep, 'boring' is the in thing. Boring turns to 'wet' when the tent is slow to go up becasue practice beforehand was 'boring'. Looking forward to the big decision.

Your quote descibes a belief in god. Don't you mean in a god? If we cannot tell another that their faith is wrong then there are in fact quite an array of gods. Not sure what the Islamic people say but generally a belief in god (in western countries ie USA, Oz, UK etc) that means a christian god. So as long as a Scout has spiritual beliefs they are quite welcome.

Thanks everyone Scouting in Australia is known as Scouts Australia and answers to WOSM just as BSA does. I have just under 50% girls. Trying to get more to keep things even. The mascot idea was from Girl Scouts / Girl Guides. They are big into it. It's normally an exchange. We sent ours on a tour. See our site: http://www.lis.net.au/~emu/ and a web search will be profitable. Like most of you I suppose our prayers each meeting normally include reference to the international situation. Interestingly the Scouts normally ask that war be averted as it is a bad thing generally but they are not vehement anti-Iraq war statements. I might ask them what they think is happening and why. The messages from the media aren't helping them much.

We don't have 'a scout is clean'. We do have 'a scout if respectful' and if this sckit is done in the right fashion it should comply with the law.

I've been using ideas from this forum in my Troop. Things I can attribute to these discussions include: I now have three other leaders. Almost unheard of here. And Scouting is fun again for me. We have a camp plan that goes out 12 months. Dates, places and coordinating leaders all charted out in Jan. We have had a stuffed toy mascot touring the USA since Feb last year. We have a web site. I have a QM who is 14. I created the position to fit the boy who was a PL refugee from another Troop. Again not a norm in Aus. Even had to make a special badge for him. The other leaders have clear jobs with sunset clauses. The group parent committee has been chosen. They just don't know it yet. My Troop is a safe haven. Another recent post describes this. I have several BSA manuals and the collection is growing. The information will be used when my camp library gets going. I ran an info session for parents in Feb to explain the ideals and methods of Scouting. The CM was so impressed he then ran a similar night for the Pack. My advancement, investiture and promotion ceremonies are fairly elaborate and include Aboriginal culture and icons (with their permission). On promotion each PL gets a hand made pennant from me which they keep. We are planning a formal dinner for the end of year. There is more variety in our program than ever before. All these things and more I owe to this forum. Thanks again.

nldscout has an excellant point. In winter that water bites. I would expect that the 'victim' has been around a bit and knows what is likely to happen. Poor choice otherwise and since the 'victim' is so targeted there should be a spare shirt provided by the 'animal'. These things are mostly done at camps here so there is a change of clothing back in the tent. But all the same the training benefit is in the 'animal' thinking the prank through to an accepatble end point. A joke is only good if the 'victim' laughs (genuinely).

I have a suzuki 4WD but it has only two doors and if I don't rearrange regularly I cannot get in to drive. For three days now I've been driving around with a canoe strapped to the roof on an old foam mattress - no roof racks. The straps go through the doors and in the back side windows. If any passengers can fit in they have to watch out for the ratchet which I position over the passenger seat. Sometimes I have a full sized dummy in a black zip up bag for EAR/CPR training. "Alfie" sits in the passenger seat with seat belt on. It feels a bit like I'm on the way to Wally World with grandma. Went on holidays in the two door with a 3 foot square box trailer, three bikes in a rack and a canoe on top. Why did kids stare?

Eamonn didn't you guys do this in the not so distant past? Really? Lots of Aus isn't green enough for dairying. Beef people seem to associate differently with their cattle. They don't handle them twice a day. Sheep dung just isn't comparable also so maybe your previous Australians were raised elsewhere. Anyway was just trying to point out that manure etc is less offensive to some than others. In my day job I mix with lots of city kids and they think a cow pat should go into a porcelan bowl. They just cannot see the difference from omnivors to herbivores.(This message has been edited by ozemu)

Just pulling your legs! Honestly I'm not serious. That conversation has been had unto death. Just my viscious sense of humour. I'm not even entitled to vote in this poll so I thought I'd stick in my oar for the hell of it.

Let girls in.

Your nuts. Cubs are scary. Good on you.

Personally I think it's great. We're not too politically correct around here. It is also a farming area and cow pats are often used as frisbee's, mosquito coils and for playing cricket etc. Animal waste is not worth a comment. Most of the Scouts fathers, when boys, used to stand bare footed in steaming cow pats to keep their toes warm in winter. Given this I think the audience would be fine with it here. I've also been a leader in our nations capital and wouldn't try it there as the audience would look for offense. Too politically correct.(This message has been edited by ozemu)

Bear bag? I take it that you hoist the thing full of food up a tree to escape the animals. We do the same for goannas, possums and rats etc which are known to eat through tents and backpacks. I'm told that dosing up on Vitamin B before going out bush helps make you offensive to mossies etc. Haven't tried that yet. Vit B tastes awful. In Vanuatu I watched Scouts make a cooking fire on top of the ground because it is often wet. They used green logs on the bottom and laid the drier bits of wood at right angles until they had a reasonable pile. The fire was hot (lots of air in at the bottom) and off the wet ground. They cooked on a wire mesh square above the coals. We normally dig down a fire pit faced into the wind. But I've seen a few fill with water. It doesn't rain all the time but when it does... When using grass rope or vines etc to hold your tent up (becasue you forgot the rope) use only clove hitches as any knot that turns back on itself will tear the natural material (in dry areas at least). The round turn and two half hitches doesn't work as the two half hitches are around the rope which is too tight a turn for the fibre. When I forget my pegs I tie onto grass tufts with a sheet bend which works for overnight. My tent fly has corner loops. By twisting a stick into the loop I can get it to hold and sometimes you can get the fork of the stick to hook onto a sapling/shrub etc. Or you can peg the fork/hook to the ground...if you've remembered your pegs. Deliberately leaving an essential peice of kit at home lets me relax knowing exactly what is missing out of my pack. Otherwise I worry about what I've forgotten. Deliberately forgot my sleeping bag in winter last year. Was running a survival course. Used a nylon groundsheet that was actually a tube and when inside it I stuffed as much gry grass between body and tube as possible. Created a sleeping bag basically. Used more grass as a mat. A hessian sack over my boots was the pillow and the top of the bag flapped over my head to keep the wind getting in. Was very windy so set this up in a dry ditch to escape the worst of the wind. Was reasonably warm. Got a few ticks though. Fondue can be made by putting cheese into a tin with a little water added. Cheese melts and dry biscuit (crackers??) is dipped into the fondue. You will need to stir the cheese a little. Anyone else dig a hole for their bum and upper legs to go into? I have a back problem and this gets me through. When making fibre rope or string don't mix your materials as they have different properties and will not bind very well. Consequently part of the string/rope will bear a greater weight/tension (Newton?) and will break. Okay Red Feather I'm done.

There may be an official answer but I suspect that change will be painful and may not happen as you hope. Starting another Troop/pack will give options to more than your co-workers family. It may not be real easy but may serve a greater good. My geuss is that the existing Troop / Pack will suffer the death of a thousand resignations and will change also but that may take a while. Good luck

Two nights ago at a leaders meeting the cub scout leader told the others how I had said to him at the last camp that "It's time to go dad". He was trying not to help his son erect a big tent on his first night in camp as a PL. The son was standing back and not at all animated or leading. After dad left he returned to what we see as normal for him at Scouts. The boy is confidant, has leadership presence, great humour, forthought etc. He is becoming a good leader. But dad has never seen that. Family dynamics keep the PL feeling like a fool - big brother stand over habits and an overly indulgent mother is my geuss. I have told the other leaders that he is not to be treated as a bit dull. It is the habit of the community to treat him as such but not at Scouts. It seems to be working - the other leaders agree. To be able to see a Scout getting out of the rut into which he has been pushed and kept is wonderful. To see the look on dad's face at the meeting when I told him what we see - and the other leaders backed me up - was sad. To see good things in a Scout which the family may never see is a gift.

Well written Scoutmom; the anxiety is pretty common and more a sign of the intensity of the feeling rather than being negative or positive. I'm sure that he will love Boy Scouts. Sometimes the high expectations get a bit dented in the first year and he may feel a bit down in a few months. That is also fairly common but is a phase of adjustment. (ie He may now be dreaming of cooking over an open fire and may not have realised that the washing up can be difficult when he burns the mince etc). Reminds me of my daughters joining the Troop. Not sure if my son'll make it - he's going through a real 'everythings boring' phase - pls let it pass soon! Hope he gets your son's enthusiasm.

Good to see you getting advice - and getting some. I want to consider my response and I'm only home for a few hours tonight between 7 days away and another 5 from tomorrow morning. Just for now - I've worked really hard for 2 years after starting a new Troop and now it is coming together. Mostly because I have a great leadership team as of two months ago. And the Scouts are good friends. The Scouts who were hard wrok have gone and left us in peace.

Go sctmom!

Try a hike camp. To get out early he will have to walk...with his gear...packed.... and washed up....and dad has to come and walk into the site to get him.

Not sure if this sizzles enough OGE but I've seen Scouts and SM's on this and we could only get them away by closing shop and leaving. A waterslide. We live in a hilly area. A few bails of hay spread to create a rockless drain and a length of builders plastic (50 yards), add a little biodegradable detergent and a garden hose. Now watch your elevation - too steep and some injuries will happen from overshooting at the end. We also allow only one at a time so that no bones are broken. Bruises and grass cuts are to be expected. The hay may cost a few dollars but then again can be picked up and used later (for mulch) and the builders plastic etc can be purchased (or donated) cheaply. Check out the range of plastics available. Thin stuff will tear and last one day only - a woven plastic weed mat is best for durability. Try putting tennis balls in plastic buckets on either side on the way down for added challenge or just go for distance (if the landing ground is safe)(This message has been edited by ozemu)

Mike you have our hope, thoughts and encouragement from Dunoon, New South Wales. (This message has been edited by ozemu)

Heck even I have one. Don't have a handbook though. Anyone for a swap?

We have had the same problem. My older Scouts were sub par as KS puts it. I have done a few things to fix it. I ran some good camps to show them what is possible. And I have trained the leaders better. I talked on the same theme night after night - set goals, challenge yourselves, divide the challenge into do-able bits and take it one step at a time. Some are starting to get enthusiastic and determined. The Troop opted for a 24 walk round and round an oval as a fundraiser for the Cancer Council. The local football team was going for a world record number of laps. They were very professional and I asked the coach via a team member who I knew slightly to speak to the troop about leadership and motivation. Same night I pointed out to the four oldest how they were letting themselves down and how they were percieved by others (parents and younger Scouts). That was the last night I saw one of the four. The two oldest have left the Troop being too old. Leaves me with one of 2002's leadership team - and he is getting some drive about himself. I have praised the core group and have left the fringe behind if they didn't show up. Now the fringe are starting to get envious. When some are being priased for being tough, committed and earning adult (self and parents) respect the others don't like being left out. However the ages are fairly close. Wouldn't work otherwise to priase the youngest as I think the oldest would take it as a implied "you lot are sub par". Then again if the shoe fits... Natural cycles have probably had as a big an impact as my efforts. There are great leadership teams and not so great. I can see a great team coming on now that the not so great are gone. And yes I have driven one boy out of the Troop. He left - couldn't stand the criticism anymore. I did this after advice from this forum that he was effecting my service to the Troop and dragging the others down. Our system is different to yours. Our Troops have 11-14 year olds only. Youth-led is there but the framework is normally adult driven. If your Troop is young maybe that could help. Our Venturers 15-18 are totally youth led.