ozemu

Thanks Eamonn. I have read most of the two white stag books and some other white stag stuff too. A great site. I also visited other jlt programs run by Troop and districts. They are all similar but different and I am wanting the base requirement from BSA. This will allow me to discriminate in my reading. Is it as simple as the 11 skills? Or do the 11 skills have specific objectives? Im a trainer by profession and the white stag material doesnt look much like a set of objectives or competencies. Course managers usually have a succinct set of dot point objectives. Is white stag the accepted standard? I understand that jlt may have started there. Im happy if that is as good as it gets - it just isnt what I am expecting

Am conducting a leadership training camp of 4 days duration for my Troop in two weeks. Web search has shown your JLT to revolve around 11 skills. I have found some syllabi showing me how different Troops achieve the training for these skills. Is there a set of objectives for JLT that I can view? I understand that copyright requires me to get the book but just curious if someone can can abreviate your course for me as a preview. links are good - have exhausted the search engine.

alanis morriset, midnight oil, yothu yindi, bread, enya... even starting to develop an ear for eminem! (thanks to most recent family addition) Stuff rubs off but I still cant stand slim dusty! sorry - this post may not make complete sense to a USA audience.(This message has been edited by ozemu)

bottom up leadership. maximum responsibility at the minimum age trusting young people to get it right based on their training adult supervision from a distance mistakes are okay (desirable even) a brilliant award scheme that challenges at all ages and levels of competency recognition and a version of rites of passage

I'm doing a leadership course for state wards. Not a Scout thing but I found one of their slogans is 'celebrate your mistakes'. Because the mistake has shown you one more way NOT to do something. They really get into the celebration to show the kids that it's okay; they over-do it, jumping round and cheering. It takes the whole impending doom feeling out of making a mistake. In outdoor education we talk about 'immediate and unambigous feedback' when we fall off a cliff, capsize a boat, get lost etc. These mistakes can leave some big bruises. If we use the 'celebrate your mistakes' idea the bruises on self esteem will be smaller or absent. Getting too serious about the missing foil is not the way to go. It is and should be treated as mildly funny. 'Now you can learn to cook in the ashes/mud/leaves/on a stick etc'. The learning is there but it doesn't hurt too much.

Stir fry. Currently the Troop's favourite. Maybe get the PL's to make a three month rule of: nothing out of a can, all vegetables to be natural when they arrive at camp, no meal that we have cooked before (ie all new meals).

Zahnada I take it that you suggested that the roster is a good idea and why. That being so and they still chose to go ad hoc then you probably have a learning experience. Manufacturing or ignoring mistakes is being harsh. In this case you have brought it to there attentiona nd it doesn't sound like anyone will get hurt - more that the leader will do a lot of work. Depending on the age and experience of the Scouts (specially the PL) I will deliberately have little or no input on planning. If I get involved then they do not truly own the experience. I think that the line between a learning experience and a 'set up' is dependant on the Scouts abilities and the consequences of not getting it right. Given KS's 12 yo without foil; not a useful experience because they are still learning the basics of leadership and have little experience to go on. The consequence is in leadership and cooking solutions (which may be difficult if the foil was to be a challenge in the first place). However a 14 yo may find the experience to be interesting as they should have the leadership thing reasonably in hand especially if they have cooked with foil before. The consequences are different in each case. As with Risk Management - does the learning gained require the experience or is there another way that gets the learning done safer? It's not so much as "are we following the policy?" but more - "how important is the lesson that they will get from this? Does it justify the potential negatives of the experince?"

Looks like son is image of ASM dad. My advice - find a way to ditch the silly twit. He's dangerous physically and emotionally to your scouts. I suspect the others who crossed over with him would be relieved. Sorry for being blunt.

Get an outstanding program happening now. right now. Then get a sound recruiting base going with some cub packs. Then be patient. Don't stop the PR from hitting the papers and radio but be patient - the rise may take a few years to reach the desired goal. Then again you might explode. Depends on a lot of local factors - don't tear yourself to peices either way. I've found that rapid rises in numbers result in a lot of disharmony in the troop. I suppose the Scouts with the right spirit get outnumbered by new ones who haven't yet got the Scout pox. Go for the long view and don't let small numers stop you from having a great time. Some things are easier in small numbers. Oh! and I've learned that you must get your parent committee and adult leadership going early on. Otherwise you will pay a price when your numbers get going. It's all about groundwork. Let us know how it goes. Good luck.(This message has been edited by ozemu)

eisely, I have four long fat canoes that fit three people and gear quite comfortably with space for all to paddle. Do you not have similar around the place? Do you really require 8 inches of freeboard? I would have that - and will take my ruler next time we load up. But I see competitive C1's that have virtually no freeboard. Is the rule blanket or specifically for flat water touring? Not questioning your judgement or BSA policy - genuine lack of knowledge of your requirements and personal interest in the subject.

terribly sad news Ed. hope your work with family and Troop has positive results. Too many copy or are otherwise deeply harmed by suicide. leaves us all feeling empty

By joining Scouts they enter the school of hard knocks and learn those lessons of life that no-one can teach them. At Scouts though the hard knocks will not send them bankrupt, married to the wrong person or dead in a fast car - in fact after Scouts these things will probably be unlikely when they are adult. Reminds me of Paul Pedzolt's letter to a mother. Something like: "you can refuse to send your child into the outdoors where they will be uncomfortable and their lives may be in danger. It is your right and duty to protect them from harm. But by doing so you gaurantee the death of their soul." That's from memory - not an exact quote.

In Vanuatu last year my Troop wore full uniform whenever around town. A couple protested loudly but stopped after day one. They were respected, given preference, actively sought after for a conversation by the locals, and we later found that the Vanuatu Scout Assoc got several enquiries from indigenous and asian people. Up to then they had never managed to get cross-cultural. If the response is a good one the Scouts begin to like their uniform in terms of pride. Some engineering of this can help set a pattern I would guess. But I don't demand that they wear uniform to public events - they are just told not to turn up if it's not on. Some then see us anyway while out with family or friends. Self imposed exclusion causes an odd look on their face. If the uniform is uncomfortable or not practical for activities then it needs to change.

Update! Just bought $5 1/2 K of insurance and now am self employed outdoor instructor. May even become a boss in the long run. Pretty scary really.

Goanna's taste like chicken too. My son just sold his pigs. Wait til I tell him that one.

yeast extract, salt, mineral salt, malt extract, NATURAL colour, vegetable extract, niacin, thiamine, riboflavin, folate and some preservative. Apparently one of the world's richest known sources of vitamin B. Maybe that accounts for the taste. I disagree on the motor oil analogy - more like old wheel bearing grease.

What a Troop Eamon was in. Vegemite...you have to be raised on it. We inflict it on babies basically. Actually is now owned by Kraft which is US owned.

Good. That's brightened the day.

Mike's back!

My own son thought Scouts would be like Cubs too! And he has been on the fringe of the Scout Troop all his life. It clicked at his first official attendance last weekend. The Hook? He passed his Scoutcraft (entry knowledge) and recieved his pocket knife. Can your Webelos get the Totin Chip (I think that's it) as part of their linking to the Troop of choice? Same hook might work for you.

I find at work that 'cool' varies from place to place. It strikes earlier in surf beach communities and later in rural areas for example. That may effect which school age group is negative in your locality. The safe position for a kid trying to be cool is a negative stance to alternatives. These kids seem to be extreme conservatives - within 'cool' norms. ie only the one style of shirt, music etc is acceptable. They are aggressively defensive of their conformaty. Alternatives are attacked ruthlessly. I don't know how we can reverse the public image. Within my circle of influence I try.

I do. My uniform is not official pattern but a very close style in 100% cotton and same colour. It is strong and I wear it whenever I am Scouting except for canoeing and swimming. My effort at advertising Scouting and showing the Scouts that I am proud of the uniform. May not be appropriate in your system but thought the alternative view may interest.

I know thiese ideas are for the exiting the Scout Troop but the ideas may be helpful. I write a reference for my exiting Scouts which I hand to them as I shake their hand for the last time. Good for that age re:work but everyone likes to be able to read positive things written about them. Might help when life gets confusing in teenagerhood. All of the Scouts file past and shake the exiting Scouts hand. I encourage the younger ones to thank the exiting Scout for any help they have recieved from them. More positive reinforcement. I intend to colour copy pages from our Troop journal that feature photo's of the exiting Scout. Another keepsake. Will help them remember thier old mates and the good times. Any ceremony done with flaming torches is better than one done with the lights on.(This message has been edited by ozemu)

Most of our camps are weekend affairs as our weather is such that we camp all year round. On Jamboree and one week long o/s trip I wash my uniform daily; I only wear uniform except when swimming / canoeing. Therefore I have two and wear a freshly laundered one each day. My attempt at setting an example in cleanliness I teach my Scouts to wash in a basin by hand when on these longer camps. I tell them to wear uniform to camp and have just two sets of clothes in thier pack. So when out more then two days they must learn to wash on day one. Not always a spotless result but definately not sweaty.

...or on any other day. Great advice jbroganjr.