ozemu

Okay FOG but I dont know anything about the incident that seems to have given rise to the question. The question remains (this was given as a hypothetical) what difference does it matter who or if he has parents? As an SM my actions would be the same. They are ALL in my care. I act in loco parentis and with a duty of care and that boy would not be alone under any circumstances - I dont care who the parents are...or arent. I have and will give rides to Scouts whos parents have forgotten to pick them up. Or otherwise get the Scout home...I pick up hitch hikers too - if they are walking or I think it safer that they dont hitch. Regardless of what rules say I see my moral duty as more important. Besides it is my duty to know each Scouts parents and to establish a relationship of trust and community such that they consider me to be a significant person in the Scouts life. I wont break that trust. My honour - duty to God and to country - help other people - keep Scout laws. Nothing there about (BSA) rules. I keep them but they are not my guiding light in extenuating circumstances.(This message has been edited by ozemu)

what is the relevance of his being in foster care?

I think that the heat and cold are part of the natural rythm. They tell you to go fast and slow, to go out and stay in. The A/C messes with that. Personally I hate the cold though because I have back injuries that tell me exactly what season it is. Still it is part of what really is normal. A bit of humility born from our helplessness in the face of nature is, in my mind, a good thing.

Sir Paul? Never realised that he was knighted. On the movies you guys refer to your sports coaches as coach .... Is that really the case? Over here they would be known by first name even to the smallest player. Also had some USA students on my post grad course and they were surprised that we called the lecturers by first name. The expected to call them by their full academic title. Basically Americans come across as being very formal and class conscious. Is it really like that? No attack on your country here - just curious.

Eammon you are describing a bull-roarer. It is a sacred instrument used in manhood ceremonies etc. Usually at a distance from and unseen by the people. The didge is not such a secret thing. Having said this the bullroarer is common knowledge. Its position and sacredness is not particularly secret but it was not a toy. I do not think anyone would feel offended by your boys making them. A heavier bit of wood would be better. Dont forget that aerofoil trimming of the edges to make it spin. Should really be oval shaped too. Just finished a camp with cardboard didgereedos. Most kids could get a drone and a squeel within ten minutes.

kwc they actually dont seem to mind. There is a certain attraction to making a raspberry noise into the thing. They play with it all the time. Thanks johnsned. Didnt realise that I was speaking double dutch. You should try it from this end. I had to get your handbooks just to get some small idea of what seemed to be very interesting conversations.

We finished the camp on Tue. Seemed to go well with the 11 skills. Two Venturers helped instruct. Basically followed what I found on the www sites. Some of the material was out of place here so we changed things but kept within the subject. Different cultural interpretations I put it down to. Mixed the cse with wilderness survival and campcraft stuff etc. Certainly challenging - we have been in drought and most of this bunch have done little cooking on fires. Lots of burnt things on days one and two! Thanks for the help everyone. Am leaving it a couple of weeks and will then poll the Scouts to see if they would recommend the course to others of their age. That will dictate whether we do it again. I should think we will.

Sorry OGE. I used ski poles for a couple of years but bent them both badly. Before that I used a Scout Staff made from gum tree. Now I use a bamboo didgereedo which doubles as a musical instrument when Im not walking. It is about 6 foot long and 1 1/2 inches in diameter. All of the segments have been bashed through with a peice of steel reo. Actually I need a new one as a PL dropped it on a rock and it split. Gaffer tape has not stopped the split going further. Only problem with the didge as a walking stick is that the end fills with mud sometimes.

A hitch in your gitalong! I have a crick in my gettyup. Cant stand taking pain killers though. Use a walking stick instead. Actually a walking didgereedo! Keeps me entertained during rest stops. Note - me entertained. I think everyone else cringes.

SharonNC your heart must be playing tricks given your current committments. My ASM has had angina and has a family history of dying at about his current age. He is on a go slow order from the Doc. The medication and stress of a terrible work environment has changed him a bit. Gets forgetsfull, cranky and even swore in front of the Scouts at a camp. Very unlike him. But the Scouts love him dearly and are very aware that he is unwell. I would think that you are doing okay.

Mini-vortex. Simple kineasthetic funn. Good on canoe trips as reason to practice turns. Attracts boys from other Troops like flys to honey pot and my Scouts have an easy way to meet new friends.

Everything is program. If A scout is thrifty includes learning about cheques and regular deposits then Eamonn is on the money (bad pun). The program objective outrides the pain in paperwork and monitoring scribes etc. On the other hand if you want Scouts to learn to handle cash without blowing it on day one then another method would be needed to suit the program. Administrative ease for adults or SPLs is not a program objective.

When fires are reluctant I have heard of metholated spirits being refered to as the scout spirit. Was a code word used by my SM - probably not a good idea but pretty funny.

Trouble with being in an organisation is that we treat people fairly which is interpreted (in organisations) to mean the same. I foster children and some of them are easily old enough to take care of their personal hygiene without direction. But they dont. Some are very intelligent without any physical or mental disability. But they dont all want to shower, brush teeth, change clothes etc. Whats more you dont have to be without parents for this behaviour. Most of the time it was parents who have casued it by various forms of abuse. And it is not as rare as you might think. These kids are great at appearing normal. In camp, as we all know, you get to know people in great detail. So.... I would not want to treat them all the same. But I may be considered quite intrusive in my questioning - after careful observation. I wouldnt record bowel movements outside first aid situations but I would expect that adult leaders would be fairly sure that their scouts were regular. It is just one sign of dehydration after all and new scouts (we all watch them like hawks) often have toilet phobia. Talking about it matter of factly helps a lot. Experienced Scouts (ex cubs etc) should be right and I would stand way, way back but not all Scouts have had the same background. Some are self reliant and others need lots of care and attention. Somehow though I suspect the written word isnt doing much for this discussion. Unless you do actually treat them all as being the same - but I doubt that any of you do in practice.

I dont do things the way Dancinfox does either but some of the schools I work with are very similar. No idea what BSA policy is. It seems to work for her though. I didnt get the impression that she is directing merit badge work. Now Laura if you tie two sticks together at one end and use your kneckerchief slide on the other you can hang trousers from the press youve made from the sticks and the shirt goes over the top. Hang from the tent with another bit of string. Now you can leave the plastic at home and get that backwoodsy feel happening. (Hope I got your terminology right. If not interpret the slide as a woggle).

Wondered the same thing when I read the Jean Auel series. Our Aboriginal people didnt wear much. They went in for body scarification in a big way. They did wear some impressive possum skin cloaks (up to 80 in one item). The ceremonial items were interesting. Lots of clay and ochre body painting.

KS I did just that. I dont need as many places for badges but it is a really useful tool. Inter patrol transfers are just a cut and paste. Colours are easy too. Trouble is - how many have an A3 printer? I think thats what you guys might need. Now Ive just bought a new PC that is Linux based (my protest against microsoft) and I have to do a new one in Open Office - Calc. Is this how Mac users feel? Welcome to the forum gbern(This message has been edited by ozemu)

Congratulations to your parents Bob.

Starting a new Troop without enough support can create a rod for your own backs for years. It takes that long for the Troop to get a reputation that attracts leaders and boys in my exprience. They should do the groundwork thoroughly. Others will dicsuss Lone Scouting Im sure. Good luck either way

Buffalo 2 - arrange the parents to be briefed in secret and then do an impossible day hike that culminates in a night location from which you can get cell phone reception. That way the Scouts will know that mum and dad will not panic and that the extra miles will get done the next day. Make sure that PLś are ready to be cheerful and positive aboutthe change in plans. Any parent who doesn like the plan wont send their boy along. Now can parents keep secrets?

With my adult cse I provide a hessian sack (Potatoe bag) for a backpack and mattress (with grass inserted). I also provide one peice of twine about 6 feet long. Backpacks and sleeping bags are not allowed. Nor is food. They can bring a blanket. Food I supply. 1 imitation army survival ration and 1 imitation natural forage, frozen whole fish, green prawns, celery, potatoe, sunflower seeds, a honey packet from a cafe, a pepper satchet, some nuts. This requires them to: improvise a pack and I demo a couple of methods. get hungry - often a first experience eat strange food because thats what they will get if any at all cook without utensils - aluminium foil I provide improvise a sleeping bag - I demo folding the blanket properly the string is used to build a shelter with a mate I give out very little info prior to simulate the uncertainty of survival situations. We do smoke beacons from natural materials and I demo commercial flares and smoke. Just let aviation and police know prior. They can make their own maps - provide grid paper and have them measure their paces over a 100 yard line through the bush. With compass bearings and pacing they can draw their own map. Explain reference points before they start. Get them to make a ground to air rescue signal. Just do circles or nike ticks no real ones obviously. Reward good efforts by dropping luxury items. builders plastic can help with time and impact on environment when building a shelter. making rope / string from grass is a good activity. Helps build the shelter. Giving them a bucket of tap water poluted with a spade full of dirt and having them clarify through an old shirt sleeve etc and then purifying is a good water resupply. Some concerns about iodine on immature kidnays but only with prolonged use. Puritabs are better than potassium permanganate but my Scouts have done both. Boiling is best if time allows for processing enough for all. I suggest revising leadership as group stresses are recognised as big problems in survival research.

Hi Silver shark, good links - thanks. Had already been to the first and was very impressed however that is what casues me confusion. I first found white stag. It concentrates on the 11 skills. The netwoods site lists different topics but provides a a daily program and specifies the objectives. For a non BSA trained Scouter I am wondering which one is closest to the official JLT. The Green Bar site is good reading. I gather he was fairly important in BSA history from my other readings. 4 of the 10 Scouts doing this camp have already done our Leadership cse which is a weekend thing. I have been involved some years ago in these weekends. They fall short of JLT and have little residual effect. I thought Ill try it at Troop level so that I can follow up as Green Bar Bill and Bob White recommend. However I want a different product to our cse as the other 6 have to do it anyway. Also I will be doing our program over four days rather than two. Your JLT seems to be a good guide. Our equivilant of council office is four hours drive away and staffed part time by a volunteer. I have never heard of it holding any resources and is for processing paper. Scouts Australia has far less available in publications than BSA. Hence my desire for your pubs (which are cheaper except for the postage fee). Also BSA pitches at an older Scout. Ours go to Venturers at age 15. I think that Scouts Aust pitch too low and do not challenge the Scouts minds - therefore having little effect. Which is sort of okay as I am allowed to do what ever I want in leadership training. It is good to have the freedom to do things my way but also a bit challenging inventing my own wheel. The BSA JLT wheek looks good but is a bit blurry without access to your books.

If you find that the issue is a bit blown out by your son maybe he could talk to his SPL or other older Scout (assuming that there are older Scouts). The SPL may be able to discuss the issue in kids terms. However ASMs shouldnt be yelling at Scouts. A stern talking too is okay but yelling is threatening in my book. On the other hand shouting to be heard is normally an essential SM skill.

Sounds great. I havent run survival training for more than my Troop but have run stands at regional camps. Also teach the subject to adults. Real survival work can be very hard on the environment and on people. So pls excuse a few questions. How many Scouts attending? What weather conditions are you expecting (season)? How many wilderness survival instructors do you have available?

The JLT book looks good. Thinking of a few purchases from the catalogue in fact. Now what is the Au dollar doing? Eamonns helping with those objectives - thanks for the reference Bob.(This message has been edited by ozemu)