ozemu

quite right KS. Some of the theory suggests that teenagers go through an 'anti' stage (existential dread someone called it!) and destroying a peice of wood satisfies the drive for rebellious destruction. However in this regard the axe work is seen as positive and a bit tough so it is a safe destructive activity (safe emotionally and socially I mean. At our jamboree they bought some old car bodies and the Scouts belted them with sledge hammers all day. Not sure that I liked that idea but it satisfies the same destructive urge. Why can't they destroy the stains on their shirts or sludge in the bottom of the pot? Whoops way off track. SOrry,

Flyingember that is a good list and seems to have been a great effort in 2003. 1. Dont know about BSA exactly (bow to BW) but a mix is good. There are pros and cons. I settle this by focussing on excitement, progress, fun, leadership. No two situations are trhe same. Unless your Troop is enormous because you lose the luxory of tailoring things to individuals a bit I suspect. 2. Do nothing more than you are doing. If they want to progress they will turn up. Thier choice. 3. Every Scout will earn at a differnet rate. Do not try and regiment this. 4. Eat well, take care of personal rest and hygiene, and have fun. Learn how to handle the stress of group living. Other than that I leave it up to trhe individual and to a large extent their PL. (some will motivate the patrol in certain directions, one of which may be MBs) So in a nut shell; if you have the luxury lean back and let the Scouts all move in their own ways. Provide the best you can and see who buys in. Thier progress is not your responsibility which is kind of inferred in your post. Keep going the way you are but dont rate yourself on their achievements. Are you having fun and feeling good about it all? Keep at it Flyingember - I will try to keep up.

Laurie your program looks brilliant. My prejudice against Cubs is based on my fear of them only. I might add to your set only one thing and that may not be useful as you do things differently to us. Add one activity with Boy Scouts every quarter and another with the Section down. (Bears or something I think). This shows the Cub what is in stall and whetts their apetite. In the US you should probably change the Troop that you coopt into linking with so the Cubs get to see the options post pack. Linking with those younger advertises your pack and gives your boys a leadership opportunity. Your boys could lead/teach something. These ideas are not always an entire pack thing. Maybe just your cubs in leadership positions or selected Cubs who can be trusted/tested with responsibility. We do this and it keeps the progression through Scouting happening. Becomeing a Scout is not scary around here. Hope that helps

Yes - they are safe. In true BW style though I must say that training is key. That has been pointed out. Also as EagleinKY wrote the axe (correct spelling) must fit the user. For this reason I carry several sized axes and am working on an oversized hatchet with an axe handle as a training implement - not for real cutting use. Also the worst camp cut Ive seen was caused by a saw left leaning against a guy rope that a Scout tripped on. Over 70 stitches in his fore-arm. Three full length cuts. Ugly. Happened in another Troop when I was a boy. Having said this the first implement we teach is the saw. That can be done of a meeting night. The axe needs an unspecified time in camp. The learner may need to rest between sessions too.

Our parent committee has gone from basically non-functionaing over the last three years to a full committee and four extra leaders to boot. The extras joined the Troop with at least one more due soon. We had to have the parent crisis meeting for this to happen. You know -turn up or we close. Tried to give it a good spin; money is okay - no debts and plenty in bank, leaders are okay but could use a few extra..and it worked.

Maybe I am being a bit niave but I feel fairly secure in who I am and what I am doing in Scouting and with young people generally; even with girls in Scouting etc etc. And it is outrageously hot in my office so I think Ill use my time more profitably. (did I spell that right? red hat spellchecker doesnt work real well for me so apologies all round) Oh hang on - something interesting. Were US forces helping the white russians in 1919? I didnt know. I Have learned something after all. Not very useful but at least it is something.

adrianvs, okay - thanks

None of the safety equipment that you carry will be needed. So carry lots ...and try to remember what you didn't pack - because you will need shortly.

men and women are equal not the same; but equal being not the same we have different paths to adulthood. I prefer the terms manhood and womanhood as it recognises the differences. (certainly I value the differences). But to me there is no ranking infered. Equal; but not the same. WHEELER uses a very christian standpoint to interpret the laws and Scoutings aims. Not being cristian nor interested in the texts quoted enough to read them then I will not argue. I suggest though that as Scouting is worldwide and open to young people of all cread,class, religion etc that any discussion about its aims should be either independant of religion or should tap into more than one view of spirituality. Your personal interpretation of the aims as they apply to you should definately involve your spirituality. But a christian arguement on the universality of our aims is less than useful to the movement. Historical revisionism is not particularly useful either. A knowledge of the history of things is useful but trying to interpret history to determine our current path is maybe pointless. Whether BP was a pennyless middle class kid who got himself knighted or not is irrelevent to our current aims. There are also arguements about his sexuality etc but I don't care. He started a great movement (yes I know about the US founders however their role is still unclear to me. again not important to what I am doing in 2004 so...). I mildly disagree with Eammon. We do train boys to be men and girls to be women. Good women and men are good citizens - good adults. My opinion and I cannot fault his view except that our policy and rules used to include social development with religion, physical and mental development that Eammon mentioned. I hope he does not feel it a liberty on my part if I suggest that we are on the same path.

thanks eisely. it is easy to say 'doom in our time' and to concentrate on whimps and barbarians. Samaritans don't get reported too often. not sensational enough I suppose. anyone know of the site that emails or displays a current heroic story every day or week or something? Had an SM featured once at least. Saw it a few computers ago and have lost it.

25 miles about half way there are 2 other Troops. Our Troop is growing; the other two reducing and now barely viable. No surprises as to why. Youth led, very active PLC, exciting program, fun, high level of practical skills, challenging (even arduous) activities and I like to think because I concentrate on law, promise and the development of good young men and women. Actually I am a bit concerned that we adults will not have the time and energy to keep up with PLC plans this year...but then again another dad volunteered for training last night.

sorry all - was inexact and this discussion is set at a level where precission is needed. I meant the method of achieving virtues rather than saying that the virtues are different. Rather they are manifested differently. (Wonders if that statement helps?) More important to me is the methods used to develop virtues in boys as opposed to girls. Boys being generally less skilled in communication need doing methods of learning. The school of 'hard knocks', experiential learning and adventure education are examples of appropriate delivery methods for boys particularly providing the facilitation (interpretation, debriefing etc) is not solely verbal. Girls like the discussions about behaviour, right, wrong and compassion etc. Boys prefer the living example, role model, clarity of general rules/truthes etc. It can be much more painful for both student and mentor than the abstract discussion that girls are okay with. Does BSA and your Troop take this path or do you just talk about the virtues? Are they practiced, tested and experienced? Do you talk about the wrongs they have done or do you have them fix those wrongs, apoligise, explain their reasons, teach others the errors they have done, practice better ways of dealing with things etc?

still haven't read it all. busy. makes me recal a quote that goes something like; "we are a generation of men raised by women". Not to say that dads are non-existant - just busy or not expected to take an active and primary role in raising boys to become men. Young men have always needed raising. Is BSA doing this? Is Scouting where it is coed doing this? Speaking for my Troop - yes that is the aim and we direct efforts there specifically. Similarly raising young women. Different needs and requires men to do arrange both. Needs women too I might add but to me (male that I am) the rearing role from about Scout age up is primarily mens. Women are undoubtedly the primary raisers prior to that age. Not sole raisers but primary. My opinion here but I think that is what we are discussing. In the rest of Scouts Australia I think that the deliberate inculcation of manly virtues (womanly too - but the topic here is manhood) is fairly hit and miss. There are no specific program initiatives at either gender. We treat the two as being the same except in the fine print. That works to a point. So I think that we are not focussing on this issue. We are raising good citizens and good people but to me that is a bit bland. So - is BSA raising men, barbarians or whimps? How do you know? Or is it just your earnest hope that you are?

I'm printing this out for my Cub Leader. Thanks Eammon.

Oh this is good... but I'm still reading it. At least I know why I don't like baseball caps. More later.

Here's a twist. We solve the problem as (I understand) BP intended. Every Scouting adult has a Scout name. Usually a native animal that has some significance to that person. I am Emu. (Silly looking bird with long legs). I know it is a lame reason however that is what I am known as everywhere. It is not formal nor is it too informal. It is a Scouting specific name that says I am trained and entrusted with a uniformed leadership role. The Scouts use the name/title so unconsciously that they call me Emu in the street etc. Other kids often look confused. They are not members of this great organisation and so do not have the right to use the name. Other names used refer to Aboriginal culture or hobbies. My dad was "chip" (a carpentar). Some are "skip" (skipper) but that is a bit old now. I knew one "Lego" - that is what he collected. Under his house was a very cool place for young boys to play. Others have used knicknames from school or worksite but they do not ring as true to me. Further the tradition is that the Scouts chose the name for you. After they have fun with the look on your face following suggestions like pig, bat, cow they can come up with some good suggestions. The ultimate choice is yours. That is how I got mine.

My deepest sympathy for all. I hope that Alex's death is the only one that occurs out of this.

http://www.scoutingmilestones.freeserve.co.uk/

all of my hobbies have turned into jobs!

A digital camera....weatherproof - for shooting Scouts A long shot I know and given that I am claiming it on tax for work and I got it weeks ago maybe it shouldnt be here. BUT my dear lovely wife said Thatś for Christmas and birthday so hence my tenuous claim. We dont have REI here but I wish we did. Hope it was a good day everyone. (the outlaws drove me mad!)

After the program is in order our pack has had success with: bring a friend meetings flyer through school newsletters

Thorns - No1 ASL very ill and now left the state No2 ASL not yet finished training No3 ASL very busy and cannot attend much self tired and floundering lost our travelling mascot (and all its gear - 18 months worth) Parent committee floundering Roses - Great four day camp / JLT style mid year camped every month except Christmass period Troop doubled in numbers started another patrol Troop Council PLC is going well Scouts enjoying a MB exchange with Red Feather fund raising is going well Personal - business increasing, family well and happy, health dropping slowly (age?), good mates growing in number

Still looking for suggestions / US experience in raising such combined Troop organisations. Have you had a dedicated adult leader who has the organisation as their main Scouting job? Do you have adult mentors for the office holders? How often was practical to meet for maintaining momentum without impacting unduly on home Troops? (remember our travel time ranges up to 1 1/2 hors within my District) What return should there be for Troops to encourage their older Scouts to participate? What major goals do you have? ie annual, three yearly etc? Advancement or recognition within this organisation - what do your Scout like the most?

Eammon valid questions. I have researched the need and potential from this end twice over 15 tyears running an organisation for specfic lengths of time based on an OA handbook someone had. Now I think it is time to get more permanent about it. I have found that the drop out age is about 13, (basic training is complete and they want some activities without the younger ones - raising the bar I suppose). Troops here do not have enough 13 and up to do anything very adventurous. Combining our 12 and up for several Troops and the Venturer Units would give them peers (our patrols are not age based) and enough people to tailor some adventures for a sub groups interests. ie one lot goes canoeing and another goes bushwalking or climbing etc. It is also recognition of the standards attained by older Scouts and a social opportunity. FOG - possibly. Historical basis has a Troop known as the Scouts Own Troop. Catchy but has conotation of an overly spiritual focus. (In Autsralia Scouts spiritual services are called Scouts Owns). Local Goori tribe is the Bundjalung nation and my home horde group is the Wiyabul. I am leaning that way but we will see. RF - thanks - your brothers are MoS?

Obviously this will not be a BSA organisation nor will it be OA or MoS. I imagine a hybrid for our conditions. So anything is possible.