ozemu

No problem Lynda J. I'll ask tonight. Be aware that our patches are smaller. Much smaller. We have a badge for our scarf that is round. It belongs only to Scouts from our town. We also wear a council patch on our pocket which means that it is about 11/2 x 2 inches. I'll try and get a Scout who is on the www so that they can chat about it.

OGE I found it back in 2002 in the program general section. Thanks

OGE the History section thread was not the one I remember from a couple of years back. Do you know the title or can you give me a pointer to it? You wrote in that discussion too.

It is international. In this council it is girls and boys begging on hands and knees out front of parade and at the feet of the middle aged, silly grinning, sarcastic male who perpetuates the 'tradition'. Does the picture make you cringe? And there is more than one fool around as well. To some extent Ed is correct. Some don't mind the exhibitionism and lose things deliberately. From my observations they are outnumbered by the Scouts who never ever claim their lost property, either on parade or after. I intend to beat this thing to death around here. Any suitable quotes will be used in an article I will be writing for use in Australia. Pls PM contributions remembering that both 'hazing' and OA are not words in use here.

Another Remembrance Day has almost passed here. Both of my grandfathers were in France that day. This country has never recovered from our Army's 63% casualties. In my mind that it was 150% casualties as PTSD worked on almost all veterens and many of their families. Kurt Hahn, called in the USA 'the father of outdoor education' (although I think BP was there earlier) wrote about the "moral equivilant of war" found in outdoor adventures. He was describing commitment to a cause greater than ourselves, selflessness, sacrifice, discipline and dedication, and bravery. We are a uniformed outdoor adventure movement. What should our Scouts consider on Remembrance Day? What good do we pull from the horror and how do we do that? Lest we forget(This message has been edited by ozemu)

Seeing what Scouting is doing for my children and that includes the young man we foster I think the important thing is that Scouting grows the individual and unites them in a deep and wholesome way. I knew that before but hearing and seeing it unsolicited from my children is the most satisfying thing. ... and double water proof your sleeping bag rates up there too.

Hey, stop, whoa there.. BW and SM Ron pls include me on this PM. What are the three levels of Patrols??? My Troop is now beyond the point where we can have four patrols. I am seeking another ASM to be their advisor before we do this and in the interim am wondering how to restructure. If there are options that you use the PLC and I would find the info very useful. We always go for mixed age Patrols. Two are coed and one male only. The fourth will be male also given numbers. That was as far as our thinking went.

I have been mistaken for a National Parks Ranger a few times this year. I wear my uniform at all Scout events except canoeing. This will not be a problem in the near future as our unifrom is changing to polo shirt style. I am likely to be mistaken for a McDonalds or Hunger Jacks supervisor instead. Maybe the new uniform WILL help with recruitment of more young people? Good idea Aust Nat HQ!(This message has been edited by ozemu)

Not being BSA nor having SPL over here maybe I can escape the wrath This post is concerning Australian use of the SPL and PLC. I will be asking for advice or thoughts and you may want to skip past. Our PLC is a stand up arrangement when ever needed but not more than once or twice a month. We also do a sit down agenda and minutes style meeting every six weeks to three months depending on various commitments. That's actually well within our training guidelines. And in practice we are way in front around here. (No SPL and max age under 15 means that SM's make the PLC's theme for meeting get implemented) Monthly was what I was considering. I had never in my wildest dreams considered weekly. But I will now. Not sold yet but thinking a lot. Thanks Barry. Travel is a problem. Some drive for 40 minutes each way so earlier meetings are not likely. Therefore a separate meeting date and time will be needed. Stand up's excluded. I shall consult my BSA PL Handbook and manual but what is the correct source for PLC arrangements pls? Maybe I need an SPL handbook. Anyone got a spare? We have room for an SPL in the program. It is sold as a six month end of tenure in Scouts appointment. Our appointments are permanent. They are not a normal part of our Troop establishment. Thinking on that too. Pardon my ignorance BW but am I correct infering from your first post that SPL does not chair the PLC? Or is it that he does not monitor performance of Patrols?

Scouting for Boys I have a few copies (various editions) and re-read sections every year or so. I also recommend a few non Scouting books that work for me. Silver Bullets, The Bottomless Bag, Cows Tails and Cobras (games books) Canoe Games Effective Leadership in Adventure Programming Bushwalking and Mountaincraft Leadership

Do you remember the old toothpaste tubes made of foil? I recall one that had been placed but end into a fire and aimed toward my Patrol at a large District camp. There it was trailing hot toothpaste, sailing a good 3-5 yards in the air and landing about a cricket pitches length (baseball pitcher to batter) from point of origin. Scared the heck out of me. Not really a pleasent memory but the pyro bit still amazes me.

Eamonn, I think that you are writing to the wrong people here. Maybe just print out your initial post and give it to OJ. I couldn't see anything in it that would hurt him. Even if he decides to go he would know your concerns, would be prepared and aware. And he would appreciate again that he has a great dad. My dad died when I was 19. I wish I could have had his advice and opinion on so many ocassions over the first decade of his death. Now I just wish I could chat and show him my wife and kids. OJ probably will value (if not agree with) your counsel for many years to come. Again - the warning should at least leave him with his eyes and ears open. That is how we can protect our loved ones when we are not with them.

Annual Pet night (not an outdoor activity obviously although one bloke has a cow up for the next one) A family camp annually with our cubs - maybe you could do this with your feeder pack(s). Lots of siblings observe older brother / sister doing Scout stuff and they always join the Troop in due course. To spice up the above we often run it as a MB earning camp too. (Got that idea from this forum). Some of the cubs do early Scout cross over badgework (I dont know if you have a similar award) Annual Troop overnight hike which is challenging and always somewhere that is an awesome environment. Every second year the Cancer Council does a 24 hour relay walk. We enter as a team and the Scouts run the roster. They feel very mature when they have finished. It is a proving time for them. Tired and sore at the finish but proud. We sleep in cardboard boxes in the middle of winter each year. The Scouts love it. Another test to be proud of. Patrol camps every three - six months. Usually hikes. Sometimes as a part of our annual week long camp. (Another idea from this forum) As described an annual week of camping. Exotic sites (overseas even). Just our Troop. Definately not a summer camp as you know it. Just a long Scout camp. We have a wisdom stick which is a Scout staff that is all twisted at the bottom. Awarded by the adult leaders to whoever we think displays the most wisdom (defined any way we want) on each camp. Our investitures are approaching some of those I have read about in this forum. A bit like an OA ceremony from what I can figure. The new Scouts and their parents (who watch) get a very memorable and enriching welcome. The best are outdoors. A ceremony for moving the Scouts who have reached max age that has had one young bloke teary eyed and has had parents come to thank us for the dignity with which the Scout is farewelled. And at every camp I run a SMs minute last thing at night most nights. In order to get around to everyones thoughts on the day the minute takes half an hour. Everyone gets a hearing although they can pass. The newest ones do but they soon loosen up. These things add up to a high attendance at meetings and not much of a drop at camps. Usually 90% or so. I think that one big thing each year is not such a great idea. The momentum must stay up all year. We start talking about the next activity before we have finished the current one. Sorry ScouterJoe. I got carried away.

Hops are you thinking that he wants to force the idea into happening with you as the prime worker? The SMs job is to grow the Troop and to keep the challanges and experience of Scouting alive and exciting for all the Scouts. A Venture Patrol may be a great idea. It might not be suitable right now. That is a decision that requires lots of thought and discussion. I see nothing wrong or strange in what you describe to that point. If you want to personally take the project on then great. If not then maybe it is still a good adea but needs someone else to head it up. We are only human and you can only do 17 things at one time. The Venture Patrol may not be a good idea at all and should be discarded. But only after earnest debate. The SM can and should suggest (sometimes forcefully) new and challenging ideas. He should not inflict them on the unwilling or unable. Regardless of the PLC decision you personally always have the right and responsibilty to say Great idea. I think the project is sure to be successful but I will not be taking part and wish you the best. If the issue that concerns you is the nuts and bolts of starting a Venture Patrol and you like the idea then I advise that you get a 100% commitment from the minimum number of Scouts required to make it work. Dont think that the others will come good when it gets going. That will give you all the work to do and the full responsibilty for any failure (or success but the odds are not good without a fired up Patrol). Also ensure that there is plenty of adult advice and expertise available to the Patrol. The physical resources (equipment and access to locations) are the third priority in my book. I started a Venturer Unit (pretty similar to a Vent Patrol) when I was 15. Had a blast. Best time of my Scouting career. We were short on adult advisors with the required skill (we had two excellant managers but not technical experts) and we had no equipment at all. Our activities were definately of a backwoods style and it worked okay. But there were lots of things we could not get done without the gear and the expertise. Even so I got my Queens Scout award so where there is passion and in at least a couple of you it can be made to happen and the rewards can be large. Without the prerequisites of people and gear then it will also be very very hard work.

SMT376 some advice given to me by this forum some time ago was that I am SM to the Troop and that the individuals get a second place. Now that is good advice but too general for me. How much time do you have and how big an impact is the behaviour having on the innocent Scouts? If your time (and patience) is short or the impact is unsustainable then I see no fault in what you seem to have done. It is the safe and surest option. If your time, energy and the impact of their behaviour allow you to work with these boys then you may turn around a misguided fool or two. The road is normally long and rocky. The reward can be enormous for you, the Troop and the boy(s) (for parents too). You know the approach; strict up front and then put on the counsellor hat and help them work through their options in achieving the goals. You want attention and to show that you are independant then what different things can you do to show this...? What about that canoe trip you mentioned? Can I help you get that up and running - that would be something to be proud of The default actions are what you have done already. If the time etc is available then maybe this can be win win all round - but the Troop is more important than one or two know it all young boof heads. Dont lose too much sleep over it. Without the three things I mentioned (time, energy, impact) you cannot do anything for these Scouts and they are best out of the picture. Good luck either way.

If your Troop is young (the oldest is young) then trying to have them plan for a calender year is a bit much. Three months is probably going to extend them. Our system takes the 15 year olds away from the Troop so we max out at three months detailed planing and some fairly vague discussions about six to 12 month plans. These seem to involve big activities and the adults are forced to get it working for the Scouts until it all gets back within their grasp again. Our PLC has Scoputs aged 12-14 and does an excellant job of day to day planning and can write a bold three month plan. They then need adult reminders to get going on things they have planned in bold terms. Realistically we write the camp dates without consulting the PLC much as that is dictated by adult availability (harvest, holidays etc) except for Patrol camps that dont nned adult. Even so an adult always (at the ages we work with) checks the solo Patrol at least once in an overnight camp. Just before dark as a rule.

We have a coed program from age 6. We have a few things happen but because they often have lots of Scouting experience by age 14 our Scouts handle things quite well. So my contribution is that the experience of each prospective staff member is probably the main issue.

PLB's are too much for us too. Instead I intend to hire a satelite phone for each group. That way we can get/give advice that might get the team to safety without putting up $1000's in search aircraft etc. Prevention is my aim.

Hi Peter, I am not the bloke that you recall however I am keen to help. I am SL of a Troop about 2 1/2 hours drive south of Brisbane (QLD capital). Although now in NSW I am ex-QLD and have a couple of contacts in QLD still. I am also an outdoor educator (rapelling, high/low ropes, bushwalking, canoeing etc) and have some Scouting contacts in NE NSW and SE QLD. So what can I do for you? Sorry I didn't see your post earlier. I stay in the Program forum normally.

Welcome Valeria, We have Rovers in Australia. Some excellant young men and women. Some Rover crews are not very active. Others are inspiring. I was a Venturer but after trying about four Rover crews I gave up and put all of my energy into being an ASM. Since then I have been privilaged to work with and for Rovers at our Jamboree's. Valerie, for Australian Rovers, visit: http://www.rovers.scouts.com.au/ http://www.scouts.asn.au/rovers.html http://sydneynorthscouts.com/rovers/about/ http://www.scoutsqld.com.au/branch/section/rovers/ http://rovers.scouts.com.au/vic/

Firstly welcome to the fire and I hope you gain as much as I have and that your Scouts (Cubs, Bears or whomever) (I get confused) benefit from your use of the forum. Please us more paragraphs with such complex questions as your first post. As for who you should contact I would think that you have a Scouting boss one up from the CM and I would tell that person. But I would also tell the CM, charter rep and anyone else I thought may not have the correct story. At least I would if I wanted to stay with that pack / den. Megalomania in someone else could be more difficult to address. If that continues I wopuld look elsewhere for my Scouting experience if that were possible. It is supposed to be fun for the Scouts and for the Scouters after all Good Luck.

and we are throwing our uniform out in favour of polo shirts! grumble, gnash, frown...

The original question. Not much. Our District is not very organised and the activities are a bit weak and even dangerous. They are going through a down time and have been for some time. We attend some but this depends on adults being available and whether the PLC wants to go. Given the present situation I will not allow the Patrols to go without one of our adult leaders. I have allowed this in the past but not now. Maybe when things tidy up at District. I am thinking that I might help at District level once I am through with the Troop. But that seems a long way off. We also have some trouble fitting the District activities in due to their events being untimely. Our program is pretty full. So in short for 2004 - twice (camps each time - District doesn't run day activities).

A few variables to consider: age of the PL's the amount of Scouting experience they have the number of PL's how they interact their level of expertise in running meetings any need to use parents for expertise / mentoring any need to use SM's for same how often you have PLC's any of these may suggest that parents be involved or not. It is not a common practice in this Troop but sometimes it is done.

Having looked at the sledge (sled?) plans from CubsRgr8's links I will enquire about such things that might be available down there. Building a sled here and driving it National Lampoon Grandmother style for a day and a night might be a drag. Or are these things constructable from a pre made kit when we arrive? (we prep kit here and take it with us for final assembly). I must come across as a real dunce at this point. It would be like me trying to explain the playing of a didgereedo I suspect.