ozemu

Hi SM Mike and welcome. You have taken on a big thing and my congratulaions on doing something. Whether it works or not is not all up to you. My experience (different kids to a fair extent I suppose) was that I needed help from my old Troop. On our first camp I had three PLs come and help me. They sort of mentored my new Scouts. Can you get help from nearby even for a single activity? The other Scouts might help to set the standard a bit higher. I also worked really hard to have magical first events to again set a high standard. Simple but loads of fun and exciting. Not boy led at all but I was trying to set an example of what they be doing. Then I handed over to the new PLs as much as possible. Other ideas (sorry it is random but I have to go to work). Is there assistance from other non Scouting organisations who can help get magical first events or reliable progams? Emergency services, adult service clubs, outdoor businesses, outdoor clubs (canoe club, wlking club etc) Can you split the Scouts and Cubs? They have different abilities and ideas of what is cool. Try working on a Patrol at a time if adult help is inconsistant. Maybe allocate Patrols to ASMs and then have them set a day program just for that small group. This might get the adults to react rather than fobbing the event off. Good luck - Im off to work.

BP wasn't a Boy Scout. My SM was. Both were great men.

...and Barry you might fear for your boys' safety but in allowing him to put it at risk you can be sure of the health of his soul. The expression is not mine but I like it and I look forward to experiencing your worry.

wooden 'S'tool surely. Is there a need for wooden gardening implements in ensuring the safety of our daughters? Great list though. I just printed it several times and have an order for a painted sign that is as large as the side wall of the house bearing these rules for all to see.

I don't teach much about the environment as I do not have a head that retains such detail. I can tell them some of what to eat as that knowledge is derived from a different ability. Besides there are schools to teach about the environment. I do teach for the environment though. That is more in line with our spiritual aspect. Social, physical, intellectual and spiritual. Being a deep ecology type I teach FOR the environment and leave the minutae to science types. Basically I encourage the Scout to look, listen, feel, smell and wonder. Sometimes also to taste but lets be careful. I see outdoor skills as exercising a relationship with nature and I hope in a sustainable way. They are vital to our interaction with and honouring of nature. Identifying particular animals, plants, rocks etc is a skill also but unless we interact with the environment the Scouts are not so engaged or inspired I think.

I suspect that it is harder today to appeal to young people. Young people are taught by media and fashion that people our age (specially males) are idiots or peadophiles. The electronic age has reduced concentration spans and a young persons willingness to pursevere (spelling?) Being away from adults is a bit scary for young people and seen as unimportant by parents. (If it were important adults would run it) Our rules and standards are much more severe (through bitter lessons learned) Argueably also most adults do NOT have a military background (skills). But the program is good wehn all of these things are dealt with. Just takes a long time to educate parents and youths on what is possible, safe, exciting, best practice for life education. I thought that after four years our Troop was going well. But my recent inability to attend meetings casued us to go for Patrol Activities. PL's did a good planning job and most of the younger ones called in with family reasons for not coming. Seems the education of parents and youths needs constant attention. It's not program or kids - its understanding of the program by all involved.

Sadly reminded of a story from a Northern Territory policeman I knew. A father outback at a lonely fuel station gave his eight year old son a little motorbike. "Always ride on our side of the road. If your bike konks out head for the sun until you hit the road. We will find you there." The young bloke did as he was told one day. But was riding on the wrong side of the road. He headed directly away from the road straight toward the sun until he died. The lesson for me (my daughter will always do exactly as I say - when out of the house) is to explain the why. Why follow the sun? Why stay in one spot. Maybe things like a dam in a desert, a clearing in a jungle, a road 50 feet away might be discussed as well.

Scouting should be a rich and varied experience. The Patrol method is our mainstay. A Scout learns from peers, shares the work with them and eventually is responsible for running the Patrol and training its members. Looking after gear is one of the progressive tasks achieved in all aspects and to completion during those years. Rich and varied.

If you like medieval and detective stories they combine really well in the Cadfael series by Ellis Peters. 20 great historical novels spanning about ten years of welsh / british history. My wife liked "The day my bum went psycho".

Perhaps try to run a sequence of activities that start whole group, expell some energy and then divide down to interest areas with a mix of learn and play in small groups. Then return to large group but with less energy to end the evening. A bit like parade, Troop game, Patrol activities (skills development and games), Troop activity, SM minute, Troop parade. I think the rough sequence may help but only if the core mission etc is recognised down to the youngest person attending. Divide and conquer always works. If they will not do this then I suggest that you stop the show or get yourself out of there.

I too dislike sloppy dress in public. Our Troop wears a uniform of the right colours but they voted to not require official items. Green shots are green shorts they reckon. However what is more important at public events (I noticed one poster refer to this)? Correct uniform or Correct manner Yes I know both would be great but as a principle which is more offensive/commendable?

I just asked the two (boy) Scouts behind me what they think and they are more serious than my daughter was. "When you play games the boys are always trying too hard to win and the girls just play for fun which is better" "Its better to talk to boys and girls because most of the time at school boys don't talk to girls unless they are your friend" There you go. Not really sure what to make of those two responses. They have not known Scouts without girls except within the batchelor Patrol we had last year. They were both in that Patrol. (As explained in a previous post we concentrate girls into Patrols where they are about 50% of the Patrol membership. That leaves other Patrols boy only due to lower numbers of girls in the Troop).

Torveaux, I agree that boys and girls will probably study better when separated. Besides you can work on learning, themes and understandings that are gender oriented. My thinking though is that the purpose at hand involves the community building that very much involves both genders. Unless we are training our boys for service in single gender institutions like the military. And even there, depending on your job, women will be your boss, peers or subordinate. As they (girls) are different it is my view that we should get to know them under stressful situations early in life so that they are not so strange when we shoulder an adult load. For the most part I agree about academics but as a teacher I do not see school as being even remotely like adult life outside institutions. I am referring to mass education as I have no experience with very small non-govt/church schools. As I have seen it Scouting provides structure without walls, self discipline over overt discipline, boy led etc and that prepares young people for when they must work and live with the other gender.

We have had girls in Scouts Australia for 10-15 years or so. Longer in ages 15 and up. Apart from having a woman as part of two deep rules and a separate tent for girls to sleep in there are no problems. No extra toilets or anything. Sex!! When young people look at their hearts desire for 24/7 and see them first thing in the morning with no full blown bathroom and sweating from lugging a backpack around they at least have a realistic understanding of thier strengths and weaknesses. No problems amongst ages 6-15. In Venturers (you have those I hear) there are sometimes sex issues. Not often though and some on this forum have BSA experience to refer to. My daughter has been in Scouts for 7 years (Joeys, Cubs, Scouts) and is now a PL in the Troop. She is 13 and has a few words on the issue: "Why don't they (BSA) just ban boys". Thanks Ash - not. At least she doesn't see the issue as being very serious. Scouts have respect for each other. Peeking into girls tents would attract immediate disciplinary action from ... the PL's. A scout is clean apparently and that sort of behaviour is not tolerated by anyone involved. Every now and then I have had to pull up some girls who dribble on about who should be matched with who but the Troop is four and half years old and the talk has not been needed for two years. All change takes some geting used to but the step is not that big really. Now I cannot respond to any questions because I go to work in the morning. I am an outdoor education instructor. We have a coed school group of 10-12 year olds for three days. Teachers get fairly testy about separating the students at night. I have never known Scouts to be involved (either girls or boys). I suspect we teach them life skills and values that trickle on to other aspects of their life. Oh - one proviso. We congregate our girls into coed patrols and leave some of the Patrols boy only. Only because we don't have 50% splits and we have found that girls want at least another one or two girls around in their patrol.

BRAVO for the newbie moderators. (Thinks) Will Acco slam me for any inaccurate philosophical statements now? Oh the horror!

Kittle, bump and I always take the time (that is why I do the job). Even if the Scouts PL is available I will happily do the test assessing. The PL needs time off too and (in this Troop) they work very hard. Also it is a good random check on test standards. If the Scout is not yet ready I send them back to their PL for more instruction, refer them to the fieldbook (or similar text) or teach them on the spot. Retesting at least 24 hours later. Exception - if the Scout is avoiding the PL for some reason I might refer them back. Only happens occassionally but some do not recognise authority and competence amongst their slightly older peers. Some also think they will get away with more with me. They only make this assumption once. The only Scout who must wait on another Scout before being passed is the older Scout who waits while I test the younger whom they trained before I pass the older as having succeeded with teach another Scout the... etc.

Our Troop elects the PLś and APLś (with PLs having a say in the APL allocation). Then the Scouts also nominate three mates. We match Scouts up with a PL/APL combination that they chose and have at least one mate in the Patrol with them. A bit of a headache for a few minutes but seems to work. OA type election procedure is followed. Siblings separated normally (ask them) Invariably the oldest and most diligent Scouts become PL. PL and APL must be at least First Class (our equivilant is Pioneer level). Girls concentrated in just two of four Patrols so there are three or more in a Patrol. Patrol size is 6-10 (6-8 preferably) but as we expand we delay forming another Patrol until numbers are really strong when redivided amongst the Patrols. Ages always end up mixed fairly evenly. Good to watch PLś fighting over who gets the next Cub who has shown promise.(This message has been edited by ozemu)

There would have to be a funiest home videoś and Scouting Bloopers show.

Thanks mate, the PLC has already done the job. An ASM is keeping an eye on it for me in my absence. Quite correct a monthly theme would work. Our theme tends to be the next camp as we do those monthly too. Also advancement has directed a few activities as the older Scouts teach the younger ones as required by their badge choices. We have never tried the monythly themes as shown in your massive Troop Programs publication. Cant remember the name of it. Have a copy (Thanks KS) and have read it avidly but as the PLC designs the bold content for meetings I have used the document to pull individual activities. Certailnly never used a complete program that we havent written ourselves.

We repeat the Scout Law at each meeting. The PLC voted to do this. The Oath and Law are the source of all SM Minutes. Everything is done in Patrols. Even when we split into advancement groups we maintain a Patrol system. We Scouters award a Wisdom Stick (curly wooden staff) to the wisest Scout at each camp. We promote personal growth and responsibility this way. We also recognise improved performance, behaviour etc n site and publically. We camp or get outside on weekends every month minimum. We do something outdoors every meeting (mostly) We camp in Patrols always. Always. If a Patrol cannot muster four Scouts I enforce splitting them into other Patrols as they fit. My SM veto of little Patrols is partly safety and mostly that the job is too big and there is not much fun in working flat strap. We recognise advancement with suitably elegant celebration (A flash ceremony) and we invite (with the Scouts approval) certain family members and others to watch the advancement ceremony. We wear uniform everywhere. At camp many of the Scouts wear uniform throughout. I do not enforce or even encourage this but as I always wear uniform (I have two and wash one every afternoon) the Scouts do too. It is good to see them being proud (not just too lazy to change I hope). In town is different - but we rarely venture there. The PLC is the decision making body probably 75% or more. Otherwise we adults make decisions and enact them to help prop up where the PLC is in difficulty. Mid week phone calls, Association paperwork, detailed programming (they do the thematic work and most instruction. I do much of the middle bit) Adult Association. You've got me. What is that? Do we have that here? I'm searching Aust Nat HW www. No methods at all! Just principles which are long winded. Still searching at NSW HQ www. Nope. Can't find methods any more. So maybe I am not doing too well! On the wrong track entirely it would seem.

Thanks guys, nice calender Cliff. I appreciate the thought but Patrol activities are not a new notion for our Scouts. It is just the volume required to keep things rolling is more than their norm. Alos probably because our age group excludes any Scout over 14 (average age 12) from the Troop the initiative is a little weak. They do need suggestions. They need ideas to get their brains working and more importantly they need ideas that have been done by other Scouts. That way they get an idea of their capabilities. (They under shoot I reckon - except for one who is starting to plan at the standard of the next section up in age - which is appropriate for his age). They need brain food - and not just more bits of my brain hence my request for input from others. So the original plea was for suggestions. What good things have your Scouts done as Patrols of a week night or afternoon?

As I explained on another thread we are unable to meet as a Troop for most of this school term (10 weeks). In fact there will be only 2 Troop meetings. There will be three weekend camps as well. We need 8 weeks (approx) of Patrol activities for four Patrols. That is 32 separate activities in ten weeks. HELP!! I'am sure the PLs will come up with a few but equally sure that bowling, skating and movies will be resorted to without some really cool (and simple) activity suggestions. Thanks Wingnut for your contribution previously. This thread will be printed and given to the PLC for planning purposes in 4 days time Thanks in advance

I don't like the Australian Scout hat. We have several in the hall. To me it looks American. No offence. Australian drovers do not turn the brims up at the sides. Why did Scouts Austraia do that? I prefer the Aust Army slouch hat. Akubra - rabbit felt. Fits like a glove after a while. Parade standard looks a bit ordinary but a weathered old slouch is iconic. But for practical reasons I wear a Dizabone hat that is squashable. It is waterproof when bought. Lasts if treated properly but who has the time? It can be put under a pack flap or in a canoe barrel etc and doesn't get out of shape. I put some weed eater cord inside the brim hem to keep the brim from getting out of shape. Except I recommend that you don't put a washed hat in the dryer when cord is in the hem. My favourite beanie got hot washed (I did that - no blame to others) and is not in god shape. Acrylic. Wool itches. My old unit hat was a beret. Rifle green. That hat means a lot. I wish I had kept my Venturer beret. Maroon. But I gave it away. Wish I hadn't. My old Scout hat (like your campaign hat) was well worn but got passed down to a younger second cousin. That was a good thing. They are not out of date until holes appear. We used to attach various types of nuts and seeds to the head strap cords tied at the front. The bigger the nuts the better. Was that an insecurity? Heck I was barely pubescent when I gave up the Scout hat and took up the beret.

anarchist yes it is an Aussie thing. Patrol events without ANY adults are OK but not Troop events which require adult supervision. SPLś do not exist here either. In fact Scouts 15 years and over leave the Troop and progress onto Venturers and we never see them again. Maybe that is the reason. Great ideas wingnut and PNScouter. Other local Troops are in a woefull position. We are the biggest around and that is for good reason. Adult leadership in other Troops may not be helpful. The two closest Troops have joined for lack of kids reasons. But we will look into some joint things. Thanks for the prompt - I had failed to consider the other Troops at all. Really like the ideas in your post wingnut and Patrols can do this with some organisational assistance from ASMś.

My work has and will be keeping me from home on the regular meeting nights a lot over the next three months. I am the only Scouter in the Troop qualified to run meetings. Our system does not allow the other uniformed adults to do so without more training which they cannot attend due to their own (over)work. We are pursueing the long term solution of finding another adult to do the training but the problem is with the here and now. Weekend camps are still viable as planned. Patrol activities are possible in lieu of Troop meetings. I intend to throw the problem over to the PLC. Suggestions for how to deal with not having many Troop meetings would be gratefully recieved on their behalf.