OwntheNight

Howdy from North Texas.

Thank you for giving back to Scouting and for your service to our country.

Got a lot of friends from the Falls, man that place is HOT!!!

Welcome to the forums

When I was a Boy Scout, I was in the Cobra patrol.

Ours was " Cobras dont cheer, they SSSSSTRIKE"

Yea, we kind of took that as a rally cry, more than a cheer!

During WB, we changed it every day. Our main one was

"BEAVERS, We do give a DAM"

We also did other ones like

"WARD?"

" Hello , Mrs. Cleaver"

The everpopular one from Naked Gun, half the guys would do the first part, the other half the return line

"NICE BEAVER"

"Thanks, I just had it stuffed"

And then after the GOL, it was

" BEAVERS, We're not really PIRATES!" for obvious reasons

What kind of activities are you thinking about?

I think if you schedule to many activities, then you kind of brand yourself as the one who plans everything, and then den leaders don't take the initiative on their own to plan activities because they know you'll take care of it.

As CM, I plan pack meetings, create the themes for campouts and encourage the dens to make their own plans. I can give them ideas for things to do, and point them in the direction of resources.

Our district usually has lots of events available. I will send information out about the event to the pack. If the members want to take advantage of the opportunity, that's their choice. I will encourage participation at some of the events, Cuboree, and special ones.

Way to Go. Incorporate those new boys into the pack, so they , and their parents, feel welcome!

At our Pack Picnic next week, we will be bridging the boys over to their next rank. We will also be letting the new Tigers bridge and receive their neckers and Pack t's at the same time.

I'm also trying to encourage our experienced parents to step up and get to know these new parents, make them feel welcome with our family!

It's really what is going to be best for you. I think your going to get multiple opinions here, which can just add to the confusion. The everlasting debate internal vs external frames.

I spent 3 years reading reviews here and different sites, and talking to people in the troop about the best back pack type. I finally just "manned" up and went to REI and tried on a bunch of different packs with weight combinations, both external and internal.

Obviously walking around the store for 30 minutes wasn't going to represent a day on the trail, but it gave me an idea of what I liked and didn't, and what to look for in form and function.

Me personally, I'm tall in my chest area, so I needed something a little longer for that. I finally got it down to the Osprey Aether or a Deuter, I saw that the Scout store had the Osprey for about the same price as REI, so I bought it there. The Deuter was just a little out of my price range, but I did like some of the features better than the Osprey. I also liked how the Osprey supported my lower back, it just felt more comfortable for me.

So man up, and just go in and spend an afternoon trying them on and walking around the store, the right one will find you.

First off, welcome, and Howdy from North Texas as well.

Belt Loops are only true advancement for some Webelos activity pins.

For the most part, they are just an extra thing to work on to draw interest, not really advancement stuff. Good Luck with the new venture.

June-

Day Camp

Webelos Resident Camp

One of the troops in the area is having a mobile rock climbing wall come in and has invited packs in the area to come and "Hang Out"

Minor League baseball game- Fireworks, Pack recognition on the big screen, AYCE hot dogs, hamburgers, and drinks

July-

Participating in the 4th of July parade

Going to rent out one of the ice skating rinks in the area and have the boys and families play "broomball" on the ice.

August-

Debating between bowling or driving an hour south of us and going to an actual drive in theater, with double feature and a mini golf course on the property.

Bike rodeo right before school starts. This will be one of our big recruiting efforts. One of the bike shops is going to come in and do safety inspections, adjustments, and might bring one of their show teams in for a demo.

What do you mean, Santa Claus and Snipe hunting AREN'T real ?!?!?!

SP,

School starts for us the week before Labor day. Our pack meetings are the last Monday of the month, unless it's a holiday. The school district gives us 1 night in the school, usually a week after school starts. This is for all packs in all schools. I have boys from at least 4 or 5 different schools. Needless to say, I can't be at every school that night. I will start den meetings in August to get existing den's back in "den meeting" mode, and to get the den's that were created from our May open house together. I'm taking your cue of getting the new dens up to speed during the summer as much as possible.This also gives me an opportunity to talk to our existing parents about the expectations for JSN.

We will use a 3 tiered approach for the Sept meetings.

Tier 1- We will host a bike rodeo for the neighborhood probably the Saturday before school starts. Try to get our name out there for kids, and it shows where our CO is so they know where to go.

Tier 2- Use the designated JSN for handing out fliers, and putting up signs for our actual JSN probably 4 or 5 days later. The principal's have been receptive to me putting up signs for longer than the 1 day allowed, by the school district. Boys will also have those extra days to hand out recruitment material. I can also have them wear their uniform, we stand out in front of the carpool lane promoting our JSN night, that entire week.

Tier 3- Our actual JSN night at the CO. We can use the gym of the church. More room to spread things out. I absolutely love your idea for either building rockets or the egg drop. (BORROWING!)

The following week, Den meetings get started for all dens. I should have established leaders or close to it for the new boys just joining. Last year, I spent that entire week calling parents and making a list of those who might make good DL candidates, and then offering positions. Need to figure a better way on that.

I spent last year's JSN trying to convince everybody to join Cub Scouts. This year I will probably spend more time on the nuts and bolts of the pack, and try to get parents committed to helping out. After that, it's off to the races for another year. Popcorn will probably be addressed at the den meetings, with a handout.

We are contemplating doing just show and sell this year, and having a big fundraiser event next summer.

"I am also a bit confused over how a den leader gets in the middle of a Pack leadership dispute."

'Nut

Look no further. I was a DL when our CC and one of our Tiger DL's got into a major power play in the pack. Tiger DL was an experienced Scouter and began to question everything the CC did in a very public manner. Anything from how to fill out paperwork to awards. Everything was a battle between these two. CC and CM were good friends, so the CM was naturally drawn into this. As the DL with the most "seniority", behind the CM. I was asked to add my opinion about having the DL removed from her position. I researched the how to's, even going so far as pulling threads from here to validate removing a DL.

After going through the procedure of removing the DL, there was a lot of phone calls to the COR, who was a very absent COR at the time. Once all the dust settled, at recharter the Tiger den transferred en mass to another pack. Our Bear Den also transferred at the same time, due to Bear DL had a sons in Bear Den and Tiger Den.

In December, CM called me and said she was stepping down and wanted me to be next CM. Shortly after that, COR called me and said that CC had resigned. I became Capt.Smith of the Titanic at that point. 2 active dens, No CC, Families divided within the pack. We did authorize payment to the other pack for popcorn sales that year from the Tiger Den.

Now, 1.5 yrs later, our pack is starting to grow on our own merits.We added a healthy Tiger den at the beginning of the year. We just added 9 boys at our May open house this week, and hope to add quite a few more in August. I still hear snippets from people outside of the pack asking why don't we just fold up shop and move on. My focus through the entire process was the boys. Failure was not an option for us.

Snappy,

Keep your focus on the boys, they are what matter the most. Leave the adult stuff outside the door. Remember, that 1 hr is theirs and theirs alone. No matter how painful and daunting this seems, you will get through this with perspective and wisdom. Keep taking the high road, the other stuff will come out in the wash.

Good Luck

We do the formal crossing at Blue/Gold. However, most of the boys are typically attending Troop meetings in November or December (provided they've already earned AoL). Others of course have pushed right up until B/G to crossover. It really depends on the boy and what he wants to do. My oldest crossed over in November, because he wanted to start camping with the troop and didn't want to wait 4 months to be a part of troop activities.

Alot can depend on the Troop itself. My son had actually chosen one troop to join, but they wouldn't let the Webelos crossover until March. We instead went with the troop that opened their doors and welcomed them when they had their AoL completed.

TWOMORROWS,

Are you being serious or being sarcastic? I just couldn't tell by your tone and intonation since I'm looking at a computer screen

Well there goes my Idea for the next Pack meeting.....

I can't wear a cheerleader outfit or Ballerina costume (ALA Scoutfish), the boys can't hit me with a whipped cream pie for bringing somebody to the meeting. We can't do "Nuts the elephant" skit, and I certainly can't sing because I left something at home that I should have brought. Certainly wouldn't want a 9 yr old to come up with a funny song, since we all know what is funny in the mind of a boy. I guess we shouldn't have sang Happy Birthday to our CC last week, because it would have publicly humiliated or degraded her self esteem. Well at least we didn't mention her age. Imagine the backlash I would have gotten for that. (Backhand across my head at the least). Oh wait, that would have condoned physical violence. Shouldn't have done the "Miss America" skit with my DL's at our campout. Going to have to apologize to the boys for making them laugh at the expense of their DL's.

If you can't laugh at yourself, in this situation. You're in the wrong gig. Every thing I do is FOR THE BOYS. That's why I was asked to be the CM. The committee and the COR thought I could be the right person to represent our unit, and that the boys might actually enjoy the program I gave them. Even if it means getting a pie or cake in the face, or a water baloon soaking. My boys understand when I'm having fun, and when I'm serious with them. If they trust that they can have fun with me without fear of repercussion, Imagine what they would trust me with if they actually had a problem they didn't want to or were afraid to talk to their parents about. Trust and respect go both ways.

As far as the OP goes, if the DL in question doesn't want a cake on their head, Fine...They don't have to have it done. Would I offer the boys an alternative to destroying an entire cake? Absolutely. But If that's what they chose, I'm OK with that as well.

THIS POST HAS BEEN CLEARLY EDITED WITH TONGUE FIRMLY PLANTED IN CHEEK.

Hey, I'm not getting fat...My clothes are magically shrinking, must be something in the washing machine!

I know I could stand to lose about 30 lbs myself, especially if I want to be a crew advisor for our next trek to Philmont in two years. Our Troop is blessed to have a SM and ASM's who are physically fit and try to set the example for the boys. It shows as well. We do do more backpacking trips, more HA trips, and yes, maybe taking more physically challenging trips than some others do. I've seen those same troops that aren't very active that do the plop camping, and that's the extent of their physical activity. (WHEW, We made it 100 yds from the trailer...All right boys, let's set up here!)

It does make a difference as well. We have a number of boys starting on their varsity teams for their schools. And the non athletic ones that chose band, are in just as good of shape as the football players. (You try wearing a band uniform, and playing an instrument on a Friday Night game in September, here in Texas. Not pretty, and those uniforms don't breathe AT ALL!!)

We do owe the boys the ability to take them places they haven't been, and see things they haven't seen. Our troop has learned from it's share of mistakes as well. Myself and another ASM had set up a trip for just the new patrols. This was their final campout as the new boy patrols, before the next group of boys that were joining. For the most part, the boys did great on the hike that we took. Some were not so prepared, with not bringing proper water bottles and such. Our mistake, was letting some of the Dad's go with us. It was over 100 degrees out, and we were hiking through some ugly terrain, lot of rocks and dry river bed stuff. Dad's weren't prepared for that kind of work, and we spent more time trying to keep the Dad's from suffering heat exhaustion than anything. After that, we learned not to schedule those types of hikes in August, and for the visiting Dad's, they sit in camp and watch from a chair. If they want to participate, they better have some physical activity plan going on before they come. I will say this, at least 1 dad took that trip to heart and has worked his tail off to drop about 65 lbs. It certainly opened my eyes to being better physically prepared for trips, or choosing to not go on certain trips because I knew I would be the burden to the troop if I went.

Tiger Cub DL- 2x

Wolf Bear DL- 2x

Asst. Web DL

Cubmaster- Starting Yr. 2

Day Camp Walking Den Leader- 4x

Day Camp Cubmaster- Starting Year 3

Webelos Resident Camp Den Leader

Those are my official titles, Of Course I've worn every hat in Cubs and then some!

Stosh,

Very well said. Thank You. I might have to print that out and either tell my soon to be webelos parents this or print it out for them.

As far as gear goes:

Yes, start creating a list of basic gear to transition them to the troop. The spongebob sleeping bag just ain't gonna cut it any more!

Maybe an inexpensive day pack to carry their gear in and start getting used to carrying a pack, instead of throwing everything in a duffle bag, or in YOUR pack

Include Scoutdirect.com, Campmor.com, and TheClymb.com for good deals and emphasize this is 18-24 mos before they cross over, they don't have to have everything immediately, build up slowly. Use your knowledge of how "Thrifty" really works, you certainly have the experience of that.

As far as program goes:

This is not a sprint anymore. The Tiger, Wolf, and Bear years were about creating the tenets of Scouting, but it was also a race to get achievements completed and to get their rank badges completed. This is a marathon, we are now preparing them for Boy Scouts, that is our purpose.

Set the standard now, only the DL or the Den Chief (if you give him the authority) can sign off requirements. Make them accountable for their actions. If Parent Akela wants to sign off requirements(with the exception of Family Member), then they fill out a form and put the uniform on.

The best info I was given came from our Troop website:

"A key difference between Boy Scouting and Cub Scouting/Webelos is leadership. Look for the word leader in a job title, and you will begin to appreciate the difference. The responsible person for a Cub/Webelos den is the Den Leaderan adult. The responsible person for a Boy Scout patrol is the Patrol Leadera boy."

Have the boys start taking ownership of what they want to learn, ask them what activity pins they want to work on? (Think of them as a PLC , and your the Committee- How do we make this happen for them?)

Energize their spirit and exercise their mind, give them that something that will make them want to join a troop in a couple of years. Use your love of Scouting to that advantage. The rest of the time we're just like Ducks. Calm on the outside, but a frenzy underneath.

I just picked up the microfiber tan for my soon to be Webelos partly because of Base's advice and my son liked how it felt, it is very soft and comfy. I do like the vented back on it after looking at it, Might have to pick one up for myself!

I have 2 of the original Centennial uni's the 67/33 blend. Those are nice for formal stuff, since they don't look so wrinkled and keep their characteristics, but man those things get warm during spring and summer!

Some of the new boys in the troop are starting to get either the nylon or the microfiber shirts as well. The older boys have the cotton shirts, and of course once we hit the campsite, those are off and the boys are in their troop activity shirts. We do go with a supplex activity shirt. Those are my personal t-shirt of choice, for everyday use now.

Same thing with convertible canvas pants, I have a pair of those and they look great for formal occasions, but they get warm as well. Get them wet and they just feel heavy and don't completely dry out, especially during a rainy weekend. I've found myself going to the switchbacks for my daily activity pants.They take any abuse I give them. I just wish they would put the boot zippers back on them like the old switchbacks. SIGH! I haven't tried the microfiber pants yet, but haven't seen too many reviews yet for their durability, they just look like a real light version of the switchbacks.

Now if they could get all the coloring the same for all the uniforms, so we could actually look uniform wearing the different combinations, then supply would be onto something.

We have done Camp Cards for the last 2 years, and we wish we could do them in the fall as well. Last year, I believe we had 3 printings of cards due to the high demand from units.

Don't know how the rest of the Council's are doing it, but we have tied in with the Kroger grocery store chain, and the card had an instant coupon for 5.00 off the customer's purchase w purchase of at least 50.00. The card just paid for itself. This year we even had an online sign up system to log in and you could pick the stores and times you wanted to sell at. Last year was way to chaotic trying to contact the local store manager to set up times, and some units just taking every slot available.

One of our ASM's was the District Chair for camp cards and told me of a unit that sold $30,000 worth of cards. That's 15k back in the unit. I think our troop sold around $17,000 worth of cards.

We have one more sale date tomorrow at Kroger, for the pack. I got an email yesterday afternoon, that said we could get an additional 100 cards if needed. I snatched those up as fast at as possible, since I think we're down to 40 something cards total. I think we ordered 1000 cards during the first run, and every time we stand in front of Kroger, we usually sell out the allotment we brought. Each boy usually averages 25 cards sold for a 2 or 3 hr shift.

I've got boys who have paid for day camp and resident camp with these. We don't keep the money in the unit as a general fundraiser. We use it like it's promoted, to help the boys pay their way to camp.

I know the literature does give the asterisk of "at the discretion of the unit", but I personally think it should be used for what the boys are selling it as.

Our Pack has actually began discussions about just doing Show and Sell for Popcorn next year. We were able to sell our entire allotment of S&S popcorn with just 2 weekends in front of Lowe's. But we are now looking at alternate methods to bring in money. Everybody in the Pack is trying to get me to set up something like Scoutfish's chicken dinner fundraiser, except with my Smoked Brisket. Apparently it was a big hit, when I smoked a full brisket for our pack campout last weekend. Don't know if I want to start a bunch of smokers at 4 in the morning in the CO parking lot

So, with all the talk on the forums about what's wrong with Scouting now, What we can't do, etc. I wanted to share this letter we received from the parent of a young man in our Troop and Crew. He was the first primary registered Crew member to earn his Eagle.

I've had the pleasure of watching this young man grow for the last couple of years into the person he has become today. It has been a very entertaining process, to say the least.

Thank you all for having had a significant hand in developing T into a young man capable of earning The Eagle Scout Rank!!!

I am very often awed by the selfless investment and effort put forth by so many very gifted and talented people. My son Achieving Eagle is a true testament to the high caliber of individuals serving Troop xxxx, and the thoughtful and effective program you have created. T has achieved this benchmark almost by accident, he did not achieve it with laser like focus and intent. T is today an Eagle Scout because each of you have contributed to a program that he loves. He loves the adventure the challenge and being in the presence of you all. His love for the program you have created has kept him interested and busy at something he enjoys. It is no small task to create something to hold a young mans attention long enough for him to accomplish much of anything much less the high honor of the Eagle Rank.

I have high hopes for my son, he has spent several years in the presence of admirable people, and will spend a couple more in close contact. As valuable as the rank is, the exposure and interaction with such selfless, and remarkable adults, has been and continues to be of value beyond measure.

Thank you all, everyone.

First off, welcome to the forums. It's a lively bunch! Second, there are lots of great opinions and ideas here, We're talking years of service around here. I wish I had known about this site when I first started as a Den Leader with the pack, It would have made the maze of Scouting a lot less stressful.

Moose hits it right on the head. If you do become the DL, remember to talk to other parents about becoming an Asst DL to help you out. In Tigers (1st Grade) every Cub has to have an Adult partner there with the boy. Just ask somebody that's going to be there anyway and make it official and wear the uniform together. Besides, when you do go to the Face to Face training for DL, you'll have a buddy there who is in the same boat as you!

Remember these words "Shared responsibility" All the parents want the same things for their son as you do for yours. You just have the advantage of understanding that Boy Scout bug that lives in you. Channel those good times to the den. If you make it fun for them, it won't seem so much like work. Assign small tasks for your parents to either bring something or share something , whatever, keep them involved. If the boy is doing something, their adult partner better be right there doing it with them, NOT being wallflowers in the back of the room talking about the game that was on TV last night. If you don't get them involved early, you'll end up doing all the work yourself. Trust me, it's no fun. I was that Den Leader when I started, and by the end of the school year I was burnt out.

Lean on your Cubmaster, and ask questions, or ask questions here. There's not a stupid question out there, except for the ones not asked.

With the preplanned meetings, it is easier to have a successful year. But get the Tiger Cub handbook and start looking at it to find out what is required, and you can plan the year around it. Sign up for community news groups, so you can start seeing activities that are available for you to do. Here is an example:

October is Fire Prevention month, our Fire Department does an open house at certain fire stations around the city on one night. I always tell my Tiger DL about that and the whole den goes that night. One of the " Go See It" requirements is checked off, kids have a blast, the police department also has a Cub Scout Saturday, where they let the kids get in police cars, do fingerprinting, visit the training facility. Use the resources around you, remember, you're not reinventing the wheel.

I will also say, GOOGLE is your friend! There are a bunch of ideas out there to get. People put ideas out there to use, especially for other Scouters to use.

As far as working at night being a concern, Don't let it. I've been a Den Leader for both of my son's. I've spent 7 years in Cub Scouts, The last 6 of those years I've worked on 3rd shift. There are many times I got up in the afternoon and planned my den meetings a couple of hours before the Den meeting took place. Do let your families know what your schedule is. As a Cubmaster now, I tell everybody my schedule. They know if they email me in the morning, I won't see it until late afternoon, but they also know to expect emails from me at 3 am as well. They will adapt to you.

Good Luck and Congratulations. It is a very rewarding experience.

Good Stuff SP!

For your viewing pleasure Zip-75074 Pack 280 Should be #3 on the list

Only issue I have is the Parents Of pack that meets at our church, has top billing on the map. When you click on the CS logo, it shows their pack, not ours.

I actually kept some leads in there from earlier in the year, since the boys were kindergartners. I'm about to send emails out to them inviting them to our Spring open house and try and get them signed up for Day Camp as well. Going to use some of your tips for a new Tiger/Bobcat den over the Summer to prevent the Deer in the headlight look come Fall recruitement.

I always giggle inside when the families bring their 3 bedroom condo's camping. And, yes even my CC gets some razzing from me when she brings the McMansion, and she's a veteran camper she should know better.

Even if my families buy a cheap tent, we can make it work with a good tight fly.

I always recommend bringing warm layers for colder camping and at least a hat. I also tell them to bring blankets from the house instead of going out and investing in all the gear. I do like to remind them it's taken me 7 years to get to the point I'm at with my gear and I'm still changing and improving it. Of course,I can't convince them that a smaller tent is actually a warmer tent. They'll figure it out soon enough!

"those who focus on the needs of the mission, and those who focus on the needs of the organization. Initially the mission folks run the show, but over time, the organization folks take over, and the mission suffers."

WOW, what a great statement. I had never thought about the impact that could have, but it makes sense.

So what about bringing in somebody who understands the Scouting mission but also understands the needs of the organization. Somebody who has been successful in business and understands the value of Scouting. I do understand the hierarchy of BSA professionals, that it's always about getting your numbers up and moving to the next level, rinse and repeat.

Me personally, If I could nominate somebody, I'd nominate Jack Furst.

http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2010/may/27/argyle-philanthropist-boy-scouts/?refscroll=576

I think Jack is a great guy who understands how important Scouting is for the boys,but is also an established businessman who understands how to deal with corporate schmoozing. He's also young enough and fit enough to portray the image we want to see for Scouting, instead of the old, has been, corporate, vanilla type, we've come to expect from HQ.

But hey, what do I know. I'm just a guy in the field trying to put on the best program for my boys that I can.

We use Scouttrack as well. It's not bad, for what it does. It does have all the advancements for the dens right there. Here are my gripes about it:

- Can't add Den Chief's to Den rosters for email traffic

- Email is OK for messages, but if I want to reply to a sent message, it only replies to the person who sent it. Not like google groups, where I can reply to the whole group or 1 person if I need to.

- Noticed a glitch in advancement. My son earned his religious award as a Tiger. His Badges Earned report shows that in there. This year as a Bear, one of the requirements is to earn the religious award. Scouttrack does not auto-populate that award in current year, when you go to enter it, it only gives you last year and this year to add dates. Adding the RA this year, caused it to show up on Advancement reports, which means we bought an extra one.

- No archive system available. If I need reports from 2 or 3 yrs ago, I'd better have a printout of it. Or it's gone for good.

Pro's of it

- It is online based, so you don't have to deal with software on 1 computer and having one person take care of all the data entering.

- Some good options for printing reports

- Can limit parents to a view only mode to prevent advancements entered falsely or incorrectly

We're contemplating moving to packmaster, but the add on features for what we do start getting pricey. It would be easier to transfer Scout data to a troop that uses troopmaster, though.