bbng

http://www.scouting.org/identity/contents/12.html TRADEMARK AND SIGNATURE ARTWORK For your convenience, the following trademarks and signatures files are Macintosh- and PC-compatible. Each file is provided in black-and-white and color versions in both Macintosh and PC formats. This variety of versions and formats will enable you to import the graphics into electronic documents or provide them to vendors producing your support materials. = = = = = The above seems to give permission with the stipulations that the logos etc be used in accordance with the policies that EagleinKY posted. On the link I just added, there are Venturing logos.

What a tragic loss. The only thing that can possibly make it more tragic is this disgraceful protest. Oak Tree said it well: "wildly insensitive and inappropriate".

On BSA's site www.scouting.org there is a box to the right with "other BSA sites"; among them is the Scout Zone site by BSA at http://www.thescoutzone.org/ . We (at the troop level and throughout the district) have been promoting the Scout Zone for about a year now, and I think I saw it in Scouting as well as on BSA's site. The nice thing about Scout Zone is that it has games, info on finding a troop, and a bit more. The Nascar theme, by the way, was not for Boy Scouts but rather for Cub Scouts--the Race to Cub Scouting theme was kicked off last year with Nascar being a big part of it. Added: I wanted to be certain of the sources I sited, so I checked Scouter Magazine, and in the October 2004 edition, the new CD and site Scout Zone were released: "A new CD and a Web site added to Boy Scout membership tools. The BSA's Boy Scout Division has released a new CD and developed a companion Web site, www.thescoutzone.org, to help volunteers and youth members share Scouting's message with interested boys and their parents. The CD includes video testimonials from parents, activity information for youth, and links to national BSA Web sites. CDs have been shipped to councils in sufficient quantities for delivery to all troops. Troop leaders are encouraged to make copies of the CD for their Scouts and troop parents to use in contacting people about joining Scouting. Included in the CD package are promotional cards people can distribute to encourage others to visit the new Web site. The site includes the material on the CD plus a troop locator that allows visitors the opportunity to locate the Boy Scout troops that exist in their vicinity. In addition to these new tools, the specially designed Scout recruiter patch incentive will again be awarded to all Boy Scouts who recruit a new Boy Scout this fall. The patches are supplied at no charge to Boy Scout leaders by the national office through council service centers." The patches are a nice incentive, something available prior to the above date, but this was a new design.(This message has been edited by bbng)

The picture changes periodically.

Our sons enjoy Scouts, and they stay on, though each for very different reasons. One has a goal of Eagle because he respects those Scouts he knows who've made Eagle, and he is very interested in taking on leadership and has had and continues to have opportunities in this. Merit badges are something that he views as work, so he doesn't have many completed. However, he is growing in confidence, has fun with his fellow Scouts, is learning new skills and teaching skills to younger Scouts, and is all in all having a blast along the way. Pushing him would make him quit, for this is the one thing he can do because he chooses to do it (unlike school), that truly allows him to grow at his own pace, and that provides him with the very types of activities that he enjoys best and wouldn't have elsewhere. He'll get to Eagle, but he'll do it as his pace, and he has time, and he goes along, he's beginning to learn the value of planning in order to meet goals. Now the other one, I think he could take or leave Scouts, though he enjoys the troop and most activities. He will skip some when they don't interest him. His goals are not clear; they may not exist. An uncle told him he'd give him a large sum of cash if he made Eagle; that made him consider it. However, he hasn't really wanted it for himself. I'm not sure if he'll stay in Scouts, and he knows (they both know) that he may quit, though he must take responsibility for that (communicate it, see through on his commitments if any, that sort of thing). I found it interesting that when he was told he could chose not to continue that he decided to stay in the troop. He does advance, but that's because the troop is active and has a good program--it's pretty hard to be active in the troop and *not* advance. So, all that to say: one is challenged and growing and learning to plan and set goals and therefore is benefitting in many ways, and the other is just plain having fun though he's learning things and doesn't realize it School and sports and music are part of their lives too, but unlike them, Scouting allows the pace to be set by the Scout. For us, that's how we view it, and that takes away the pressure that we might otherwise put on the boys to quit or become more active. In a nutshell, I guess whether a parent wants to use cattle prods (and it can be so tempting!) depends upon what the parents' expectations are.

All positions are for one year at a time and are renewed through the rechartering process. Some people agree to commit for a specific time frame, but they too are renewed in their positions only if the chartering organization approves that renewal. The BSA does not put a limit on the time served in a particular position.

"Also, the acting SPL and ASPL constantly complained about his yelling and demanding way. In a way, I was proud of these two boys because they were looking out for their scouts (a characteristic of a leader). I'm planning to take it up with our SM and our CC." First, yes, I think you do have reason for concern. He had no right to yank any Scout's sleeping bag off him...regardless of what he was wearing. The yelling is flat out wrong. And best of all, the bit I quote above seems to be the key to fixing this: the youth leaders do have a problem with him, and they have expressed the problem with him, and now they need support. I'd give it to them completely, and it seems you are. As for the fellow who wanted to call the SE, let him--he doesn't have to tell anyone he made the call. In fact, he shouldn't tell anyone. If his concerns were great enough that he felt a call to the SE was in order, he should be encouraged to follow his instincts on it. It would be idea if it could be handled within the unit, and it may be, but I'm well aware of a situation where a leader wanted to call the SE, did not, and was sorry about it later when nothing could be done. Two issues here: how do the adults support the youth who have complaints (valid complaints) about this adult leader, and how does one decide when to call the SE (and should he simply do so or talk about it first). As for what Semper and Ed said, I'd be inclined to leave this fellow at home from now on, but that decision can't be made long distance.

http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-503.html If you click on the "view source" for this page, it shows that it was modified June 16, 2006, so this should be the most recent. I arrived at this page by going to the Boy Scout page, then choosing clicking on the words "Boy Scouting" on the first page that came up (both Adult Leader & Boy Scout sections were the same). I've noticed that National has been redoing some of the site (Cub Scouting was completely restructured). I tried going to Scouting Information Center, then Fact Sheets, then "What is Boy Scouting" and got the same page. The Media Center page, found at http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/index.html is not dated but mentions December 2001 statistics thought the other gives December 2005 statistics. The media pages seem to more of a an archive of events that have taken place rather than the most current info, and my guess is that in 2001 the BSA either had 7 goals or had a typo in the fact sheet.

This thread ended badly, yet it seemed throughout that all but one person agreed on what BSA gives as direction as well as the interpretation of the BSA literature. Thinking that maybe I was misreading something, I hit ignore user for the one person who was not agreeing, and sure enough, there is a lot of good advice that is consistently stated throughout this tread. It's too bad there isn't a way to pull all the advice / how-tos and simply put them into one easily accessible post or form on this site (or is there a way to do that?). I have found this thread to be very thought-provoking, and as it was hashed out, I as a troop committee member did get a better perspective on my role as committee member. Thanks folks for helping me out, even though I didn't post the original questions or those posed throughout!(This message has been edited by bbng)

A call to your council registrar and to your district advancment chairman would provide you with the timing your Scouts can expect.

This is a handy resource in the G2SS, the age-appropriate guidelines: http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/ageguides.pdf It might be that certain units and/or councils add to the safety guidelines, but the information you've been given doesn't match what I've seen in any BSA publications.

Lightning victim's kin accuse Scout leaders of negligence Friday, June 09, 2006 BY WAYNE PARRY Associated Press >shortened to delete content OGE already posted< "... Korn said the Trescas did not learn what happened before their son's death until a Scout employee contacted them two years later, claiming he had a portable weather radio, warned camp officials in the dining hall that a storm was coming and recommended keeping the children indoors longer. That employee, Marc Spera, had returned to the campsite and tended to Tresca after he was injured by the lightning bolt that knocked him backward off the picnic table. "He got down over him to try to see if he was OK," Korn said. "Matthew grabbed his arms and said, 'My legs! My legs!' He (Spera) could see tears in his eyes. His heart had been thrown into a rhythmic disturbance, which is what happens with lightning strikes. It was a massive shock." James Donohue, the lawyer for the Cradle of Liberty Council and three individual Scout employees being sued, asked why Spera returned to the campsite if he felt so threatened by the lightning. "This was a lightning strike after the storm had passed that no one expected," Donohue said. ..." Source: http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-7/1149833713170600.xml&coll=1&thispage=2 No matter how this is reported, it is a tragedy and a sad story indeed. Most likely we won't know all the details, and as a rule, I don't simply trust what is reported in the news.(This message has been edited by bbng)

I echo Eamonn, for I got the same impression. Sadly, this sounds an awful lot like a situation our son was in at one time. He is no longer involved in that troop, and the new troop is not in our town. In fact, it's not even all that close to home, but it's been a good move. If it's at all possible, it seems a good idea to look into other options. Welcome to the forums, and I hope Scouting begins to look up for your son and for you.

In the troop my sons are in, it is suggested to Star Scouts to try their hand at leading a simple service project. However, that is not the first time it's suggested, nor is it a requirement in order to advance. It has come from frequent communications between the SM and Green Bar. One way that the troop has set up a way to implement leadership, beginning from as soon as a boy feels ready, is to have the Scouts plan all trips with the help of an adult. The adult role is to handle paperwork and financing for the most part; the Scouts plan out all other elements. Does it always work? No, sometimes get terribly confused, but interestingly enough, those trips/outings are those that seem to be enjoyed and remembered the most. An item on the calendar will not be removed if a Scout doesn't set up that event either. The way it's looked at is: the Scouts want the opportunity to truly run the troop, and the adults want to support them in that, so they work together with the understanding that the Scouts always have "first shot" at setting up anything. This may sound muddled, and I hope it doesn't, but I wondered at even the suggestion of taking on leadership as one advanced to Life. Then I learned that this began far before Life. The reason? The Scouts have identified a weakness in the troop, and it is that the Scouts aren't always confident in planning and need practice.

http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-972.html I've been reading about this for awhile, though I have no first-hand knowledge of the program. The above link may be helpful.

Hey, Dave, you left too soon! Come on back. Please

When someone calls our home, I simply ask who is calling please, and if I'm not familiar with this person, I ask pleasantly what it's in reference to. I will do that for any call to anyone but my spouse unless asked to get info first. Our troop usually doesn't have adults calling youth. I can't recall a time that's happened, though it may happen with the SPL. Usually, the SPL calls the PLs, and they PLs and/or their assistants make phone calls to others. Whenever an adult has called here, it has been to talk to one of the adults. That said, if an adult were to call our son, I'd simply ask who they were and what in it's reference too--don't need the details, but an idea is helpful. Our son can tell us the rest if he feels it's necessary. As for "who is this" when I answer the phone, I respond with, "you called, so who are you please". That got one guy really hot (not a Scout or Scouter), and I told him if he called this number and seriously expected to simply gather info, I was hanging up as he wasn't paying the courtesy of telling me who he was or what he wanted. I ended up hanging up. It's a private unlisted number, so this technique is often used to learn info for solicitations. It's private for a reason--we don't *want* to hear from those we don't know. Teens call here plenty, and they usually say, "hey, is XXXX home" or "um, it's XXX". To the first request, even if I recognize the voice, I ask who is calling please. To the second one, I say "Hi xxxx, who would you like to talk to" even if I know. The frequent callers now call and ask "is xxxx home; this is xxxx", or "this is, can I talk to xxxx". It's simply manners, but when it comes to the phone, so many adults don't use manners that it's not surprising the youth don't either.

Good Turn For America -- see http://www.goodturnforamerica.org/ . When I was with a pack, we gave the GTFA patches or pins to those groups we teamed up with as a thank you. The Wolf Rank Requirements can be found online at http://www.geocities.com/~pack215/wolf.html#HOME and the Bear Rank Requirements at http://www.geocities.com/~pack215/bear.html .(This message has been edited by bbng)

The snake doesn't appear to be a rattler in spite of making the rattling sound. Both my son and I are stumped, but we ruled out Copperhead because this snake was long (about 3') but rather slim compared to the descriptions and photos we've seen, and also because the head had colorings compared to the Copperhead which is solid in color. As for the rattlers, they are simply too vivid in color and have a very pronounced head and eye shape compared to this one. The ranger got back to me but wasn't much help, saying it was most likely simply a black snake that rattled. I don't have a field guide for just snakes, so it may time to have and carry one (our backpacks are loaded already with wildflower, animal tracks, mammals, butterfly, and bird field guides--what's one more ) Even if this was completely harmless, I still think it best that we stayed back and waited on it to move. The problem on the trail was that if we went right, we'd be in the pond; if we went left, it was a incline and full of poison ivy; going back was an option but it would mean over 7 miles of backtracking OR taking a chance of finding a new route that wasn't on the map; so we waited it out hanging back. My son tried to push past me when I froze when I spotted the snake several feet ahead; I put my arm out and he looked annoyed then spotted it. We'd like to go back there, but the next time, we'll review the trail map with the ranger to find out how we can step off it if we need to (there's really no place to go according to the map). We also know there is a section of trail that had 3 snakes; in 7.5 miles, 3 of 4 were seen in one small stretch of that trail. In checking the area out before going camping, I looked for snake and bear and other animal info; there wasn't any that made me think we needed to look out for anything venemous in the way of snakes. According to the ranger: it could be an old snake and therefore faded; it could be just prior to molting when colors are less distinct; it could have been transplanted in some way; regardless, it's best to leave it be.

Can anyone help me and my son identify this snake? I have a photo (used a zoom lens so it's not as clear as if I actually approached the thing to shoot it) and can send it to you if that would help. I'm sending it to the park ranger, as he was unfamiliar with it and even with a field guide we all could not locate it. Found in state of DE, on trail at side of pond, not sunning itself--it looked ready to move when we reached it. Dark color, perhaps a dark gray or light black, looked silvery with sun shining on it, bronze/copper colored triangle on head, same color repeated along body in faint diamonds along sides. What got our attention and made us freeze for a bit was the rattle sound. The snake was on the trail. We stopped, not sure if we should double back or wait, waited still and quiet, and the snake slipped into the woods. We kept an eye on it, and when it was off the trail and heading away, we quietly walked past. And as we did, it turned towards us (in a coil of sorts, only 1 turn, we didn't wait to see more) and we heard a rattle as it lifted it head and looked at us. I was sure I heard wrong, but my son whispered "it rattled", and as we were just past it we now kept going and didn't breathe a sigh of relief until we hit camp again. We saw quite a few snakes--4 in 7.5 miles--but this one was at the end of the hike and kept us moving. We'd like to know what this is, but a park ranger and two field guides and an internet search later, we still don't have a clue. Any ideas or references? TIA!

Ditto to what Kahuna said. Congratulations to your family, Eamonn! You must be bursting with pride, and though it's OJ's goal and accomplishment, I firmly believe that families are part of the process and deserve some credit for the support they give.

Normal? It can be; it all depends on the troop. Is the way the patrol is supposed to work? No. "The members of each patrol elect one of their own to serve as patrol leader. The troop determines the requirements for patrol leaders, such as rank and age. To give more youths the opportunity to lead, most troops elect patrol leaders twice a year. Some may have elections more often." What seems to be missing in your description is the election process. It is my experience that the troops that do not use the patrol method, allowing Scouts to elect their PLs (within the troop guidlines in respect to rank and age), tend to be those that are not boy-led. Here is a link that can give you a better understanding of the patrol method: http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-800/index.html

"Do BSA Councils have the leeway to create "official" awards that can be worn on the uniform as insignia (temporary or otherwise)?" Excellent question, and I'd love to hear an answer to this one. May our commissioner staff create an award such as the one mentioned, and so long as it meets the patch criteria (I know our day camp and camporee patches have to have certain elements included in them), go ahead with it without going against a uniforming/recognition policy? Our commissioner staff is trying to find ways to build up leadership in general, and this seems to be a way to do that.

I've read through this thread a few times, and first, welcome. My single biggest concern here is you and your son. It seems that this pack and a few others don't measure up to what you'd want or expect, and I'd caution you to realize that it's quite possible none will. Even Pack B might encounter tough times; that's normal. Cub Scouting is fun, and sadly, you don't seem to be having fun. Most likely, that means your son may not be either. Please don't worry so much about the others. Yes, share where you go and what you like about, do what you can to help others find a pack and maybe go with you, but I can tell you that when our son made a choice of troop, it was the best thing he could have done. The rewards keep on coming, and it's all because he visited, he met the Scouts, he decided what he liked and didn't like, and then asked if we'd sign him up. We registered where he registered. This is doable with Cubs too, and I hope your son has a chance to have all the Cub Scouting fun that it's possible to have (and that's a LOT of fun!) Good luck, and I'll echo what others have said: you don't need and most likely will not be given permission from anyone else to go to a different pack or troop.

I find taking children outdoors onto trails and into camping settings to be fun, and part of heading out just naturally leads to talk here and there of safetly along the way. Recently, I took my daughter out for her Daisy nature hike. This troop has close to 15 girls in it now, and it's not unusual to have all or all but one show up at any meeting or event--a very active group--so it was surprising that only about 6 came to the hike. My daughter is still wondering why they never really hiked (grin), but we did learn why others didn't come: they were afraid of the bears! There are NO bear in this area at all, and the hike was a walk on a paved surface around a playground--with the road visible half the way and backyards visible the other and always the playground in the center. So, though they are young and might become frightened easily, I have to wonder who in the heck told these girls there were bear around. As for those on the hike, 2 had fun--the others were looking rather spooked until they learned they could look under rocks for bugs. Go figure--girls like bugs All that to say, the approach matters. Approach it as "let's see what we can discover today, and as we head out on the trail, let's make it the most fun by sticking to the trail because that's an easy way to avoid things like poison ivy or bugs that might want to hitch a ride." Head coverings could be done in a fun way, and if light clothing is to be encouraged, that could be too. Since the leaders aren't out-doorsy, maybe their crafty? The girls could make bandanas and decorate polo shirts with collars to turn up; this could be part of the gear and it would be a fun (without even telling them yet why it's important) to introduce some safety items. Have fun!