Owl62

I have used the heavy duty Scotch guard spray with success and no problems. Mostly just on the rain fly and around the lower 1/4 of the tent walls. Seems to work well. You have to be careful spraying in - don't breath it and try to apply it evenly. And since it is flammable, it probably makes the tent more flammable. But I am a lot more concerned about staying dry in a tent than having a tent catch fire. (I have never personally heard of or seen a tent catch fire but I suppose it is a possibility). I once used "Camp Dry" but I found it did not really work very well.

The past year or so, I have been using the little LED lights that clip under a cap bill. Some have three LEDs on them, and I have one that has six. They seem to hold up well, if you wear a cap, you always have the light with you, and they seem to provide plenty of light for setting up camp, walking a trail, etc. And they only cost about $10.

It is strange that water was dripping through the entire rainfly. I don't believe I have ever seen a totally waterproof tent. Every tent I have ever seen has leaked somewhere, sometime - most often through the seams. Tents or parts of tents may be coated with "waterproof" material, but sooner or later almost all will leak. Rainflys deflect rain more than serve as a waterproof barrier. Rainflys should usually be pretty taut. It sounds like the rainfly in question may almost be mesh??? Some things to consider to reduce tents leaking: Buy a good quality tent, with tapes seams, gussetted zippers, and a fly that covers the tent well. Be wary of tents that the rainfly does not cover or extend over all doors, windows, zipper, screens, etc. Unless the manufacturer recommends otherwise, nearly all tents need to have all the seams sealed and resealled regularly. Erect the tent in an area where the ground kind of slops away from the tent on all sides if at all possible. Avoid erecting a tent where water will drip or run on it from other things like trees, rocks, etc. Erect tents with the widest surfaces parallel with the prevailing wind. Erect the tent according to the manufacturer's instructions. Tent surfaces should be taut but not drum tight. Especially the tent floor and rainfly. A taut tent surface will help deflect rain. Make sure the tent has plenty of ventilation - otherwise, condensation inside the tent could be a problem. Use a separate "waterproof" ground tarp under the tent and make sure that no part of it sticks out from under the tent. Consider using another waterproof tarp (I use clear plastic sheeting) cut to fit, INSIDE the tent. Reason is that most tent seams near the floor of the tent will leak and using an inside tarp will cause most of that water to go between the tent floor and the inside tarp helping keep the occupant and contents of the tent dry. Avoid having ANYTHING touch the inside walls of a tent - it can and usually does cause leaking where the wall was touched. Keep the tent in good repair. Stitching, patch holes, seal the seams, etc. Most tents leak through seams, open doors, holes, and where water is allowed to pool or stand on the surface of tents (especially near the bottom of the walls where the floor is attached). Consider taking an extra tarp to erect over a tent is really heavy rain. I have even used a poncho for the same purpose. Ive never tried the pulling a trash bag over the foot of a sleeping bag in wet weather inside a tent, but I will try it sometime. I have had the foot of my sleeping bag get wet. I usually use a cot so a wet sleeping bag is not usually a problem. If you camp in the rain, you are probably going to get wet. But there are thing you can do to keep it to a minimum.

Our unit does not ban electronics. We figure, what's the point?. As long as there is no disruption in the activities, nothing illegal or unsafe going on, we have more important things to worry about. As long as the Scouts are doing what they are supposed to be doing, we don't worry about these things. We do have some rules about electronics though. We asked them to refrain from using them during meetings, etc - and they do. The Scouts can use them during their free time, in or near their tents on campouts or during the trip to and from as long as they do not create distractions for the driver or bother others. And they know that if they are broken, damaged, lost or stolen - the unit, camp, etc are not responsible. For the most part, we see very few cell phones, cd players, radios, etc. It just is not an issue in our unit. We don't confiscate anything from Scouts except for safety hazards, illegal, etc. (Rarely occurs) Again, just not an issue in our unit. And besides, it's kind of hard to tell Scouts not to bring electronics to outings when the camps put on big audio/visual and music displays instead of campfires.....

Regarding summer camp showers, what showering facilities are available at your council camps for summer camp? Hot water available or only cold water? Centrally located showers? Campsite Showers? Most of our summer camps have cold water showers available in the campsites with a central shower facility with hot and cold water. All have showers with hot and cold water available at the pool - but these are normally locked when the pool is closed. One of the camps have showers with hot and cold water in each campsite. Thanks

We are still looking for more input and opinions about tents at summer camp: Does your troop use tents provided by the summer camp, or bring their own? If so, why and what kind of tents do you take to camp and use. Since mosquitos are bad in our part of the country, most of our troop started bringing their own tents about 4 years ago. The 9X7 tents provided by the camp are not screened and some of them are in poor condition. Summer camp tents are often erected incorrectly or in poor locations. We often have to take the summer camp tents down, and erect them correctly. I have seen then located on inclines so steep that you could not possibly uese them or directly under deadfalls. Some of us tried mosquito netting but it is a bit of a hassle. Most of our adults have personal walk-in screened tents that are about 10X8 and many of the Scouts bring their own screened tents too. For some the reason to use their own tents was due to the mosquitos, some for privacy, and some just like to use their own. I use my own for all of these reasons.

Anyone out there have any experience with sleeping bags with built in sleeping pads? I have see two different makes of this type of bag. One at Wal-Mart and another elewhere. Seems like a good idea, but they seem bulky, maybe heavy, and I am not sure about what kind of pads are in them - open or closed cell? We have a Scout's mom who discovered them and she thinks they are great.

Our troop has mostly 2 and a few 4 man Eureka Timberline tents. They are aging but in fair condition. We don't see many other troops with them, although Eureka still makes them. Seems like troops are using other tents. We see mostly Coleman dome tents, other dome tents of various manufacture. Most of our aduts have their own tents as do some of the Scouts. But some use the troop tents. We actually encourage Scouts to get their own tents and most eventually do. They are a major expense and the Scouts seem to take better care of their own. We were just wondering what other troops did for tents?

I am not sure that is it possible or even desirable to make a tent "waterproof" Condensation will probably form inside a totally waterproof tent. Water resistant is another issue. For sealing seams, many people use a comercial seal sealer product. Most come in a little bottle with a daubber on it for easy application. I re-apply seam seal at least once a year or when needed. For the rest of the tent fabric, I do use a heavy duty "camp dry" product that comes in a spray can - seems to work. I patch holes as needed also. Other things that can help make a tent water resistant are using a plastic ground tarp under the tent (don't let any of the ground tarp extend out from under the tent - it will catch water and cause it to run under the tent). Also, a tarp on the floor inside the tent (most water leaks occur at or near ground level - using a tarp inside the tent will result in most of that water staying between the tent floor and the tarp, helping keep you dry - it has worked for me)

Our unit really does not have a tent policy. The troop has tents and some of the Scouts use them. Some bring their own tents. Some Scouts have buddies they like to share a tent with, others prefer to tent alone. If we have a Scout that wants to tent with another Scout, that has always been arranged. The tents are usually all in a small area so we don't worry about anyone being in a tent alone. Personally, I take my own tent and sleep in it alone as do most of the other adults. I have shared a tent, but prefer to tent alone. We have adults that snore so they tent alone and we try to pitch our tents at a distance from them. We have heard of a troop that has all Timberline 2 man tents, and everyone in the troop has to use a troop tent and share it with another Scout unless there is an odd number of Scouts in which case they squeeze 3 Scouts into one tent. Even the Scouters have to share troop tents. Only explanation I got was that they wanted the same type of tent accommodations for everyone. It appears to work for them. My opinion is, whatever works as long as the G2SS and other policies and laws, and common sense are followed.

I would like to hear about what headgear your Scouting unit uses. We have not adopted any specific headgear yet. It is left to the option of the individual as long as the headgear is official Scouting headgear, Scouting related (Scout camp/activity hats, expedition hat, etc., or a plain with no logos. We are considering a troop hat but there is no consensous yet. We will probably end up with a custom baseball type troop cap. Thanks.

Our unit is looking at a new first aid kit for the unit. Currenly we have a "put together" kit in a tackle box. Serves well but we want something that is easier to carry, especially backbacking. We are considering rebuilding the tacklebox first aid kit and developing a first aid kit in a small pack that can be taken backpacking. We are intersted in hearing what others do for first aid kits, including contents. Thanks. Allen

Seems like we frequently arrive in camp after sundown and have to set up camp in the dark. Headlights make it an easier task. We recommend that our folks get and use headlights so that they can set up without having to hold a flashlight. Most of them have the little Eveready 3 LED headlights that can be bought in many stores for about $10. Uses 3 AAA alkaline batteries. Seems to serve well. Headlights can also be used for general lighting, tent lights, caving, trail trekking, etc. Others including myself have other headlights including combination LED and high-intensity headlights. We'd like to hear from others that use headlights including the type, etc. Thanks.

My opinion is, let them all stay registered as long as the pay the registration fee and complete any other requirements.

Except for backpacking, I normally use two sleeping pads. One closed cell foam on the bottom and the other a ThermaRest look-a-like self-inflating on top of the closed cell pad. I use this method in all kinds of temperatures. My old bones just need the extra cushioning. When backpacking, I just use a closed cell foam pad. Always full length on both pad types. Besides the extra cushioning for thermal insulation and comfort, the closed cell pad on the bottom helps keep the other pad and your sleeping bag dry. Tents almost always leak or have some condensation in them regardless of what you do to prevent it. These days though I almost always use a low cot - with the closed cell foam pad and the self-inflating pad on top of it, under my sleeping bag. I have never had a problem with being cold with this type of set up. In fact, it is warmer than just using the pads on the tent floor - at least to me. I chill easily and make sure I am always prepared to sleep warm. I don't like mummy sleeping bags and usually use a retangular bag. In the winter I wear a knit cap that has covers the face and neck with an opening for my eyes, nose, and mouth. A regular knit cap comes off during the night. For most Scouts, for most applications, I recommend a full length closed cell sleeping pad.

The current Insignia guide shows the District Award of Merit displayed two different ways. One is with the loop up, one is with the loop down. How is it supposed to be displayed on the uniform?

There is a new 100 Years of Scouting patch available. It is oval and says "100 YEARS OF SCOUTING 1910-2010 WHEN TRADITION MEETS TOMORROW" Anyone know how/where this patch can be worn or displayed. Being a horizontal oval patch, it really doesn't appear to be designed for the right uniform shirt pocket. Thanks.

I like the design of them but I don't really care for them. The don't fit well, the material is not the best as it is too thin and flimsy and melts if you get too close to a heat source, the leg bottoms need velcro cinch straps, and the sizes appear to be off. To me, they are very hot in warm weather (unless of course you remove the legs). I like the pockets, and the zip-off legs feature though. I would prefer another belt, I don't like the belt or buckle that comes with them. I think a ripstop cotton nylon material similar to military lightweight BDU pants would be a better material option. They are a great idea, but in my opinion they need improvement.

I have never been anywhere that we were given a specific contribution amount, at least not that I have heard, but the past several years, they have been pushing automatic monthly contributions by pressuring people to sign pledge forms or through our wills to give all or parts of our estates to them. Due to what I consider to the be the inconsiderate, aggressive and rude manner (my opinion - I think I am entitled to my opinion) of some FOS presentations, I no longer give ANY money to FOS. Period. No means no. (They have even tried having a nicer, kinder person with a more warm approach, usually someone who personally knows me, to try to get money out of me, that I should not let a perceived bad experience keep me from giving - the answer is still no). To some FOS presenters, "no" is simply and invitation to keep asking. "Maybe" is an invitation to keep asking, no means no. It has been suggested that becuase of this, I am selfish and that I am not a good and true Scouter. If that makes me a bad Scouter, then we are surely in a sad situation. It appears that little or no consderation is given to timing, manner, venue, or the socioeconomic status of the target group of FOS presentations. The attitude appears to be, tough, give something else up and give. My opinion is, a Court of Honor is not an appropriate place to give an FOS presentation unless the members of the unit decide that it is appropriate. I am considered a bad Scouter because of this opinion. I believe that we should all be given the opportuntiy to give to FOS, with NO pressure or rude or belittling guilt trip tactics. But I also believe that the amount or form or our giving should be what we determine it to be, not what the BSA, local council, or FOS presenter determines it to be. Now they are even trying to get us to sign over all or parts of our estates to them in our wills. No means no. When are they going to learn that people give because they want to, if they can, not because of pressure. It has been suggested to me that there is no pressure, they are trying to inform and educate us. I voluntarily give large amounts of resources to Scouting every year in the form of money, time, supplies, equipment, transportation - mostly to my unit or to other Scouting activies in which I participate in support of delivering the program to the youth. I have, on more than one ocassion helped pay for a Scout's summer camp, and for others' uniforms, etc. I want no badges or awards or other recognition for my volunteer service - I simply want to serve. I try to arrive early at events and help set-up, stay late and clean-up, do little (and sometimes no so little things to make activity site improvements, etc.) Again, to try to help deilver the program to the youth. Maybe since I am considered to be a bad Scouter, I should no longer do any of these other things and leave the program?

My opinion: Pros of Powder Horn instead of Wood Badge: 1. Powder Horn is a "resource" course that introduces attendees to subjects and activities that are of value to Scouters and their units especially Venturing Crews. 2. Powder Horn usually provides for hands-on experience in the resources presented. 3. Combined with your Wood Badge training, going to Powder Horn would provide your with information from both for the benefit of your unit. 4. Usually Powder Horn courses are less available than Wood Badge Courses. 5. I found Powder Horn to be well run, interesting, very informative, hands on, relaxed, and fun. 6. Generally Powder Horn is a bit less expensive. Cons: 1. Since Wood Badge Staff is invited, you may not be invited again (but if you explain to the Wood Badge folks that you want to attend Powder Horn for the benefit of your unit - they might - should understand) 2. Your Wood Badge knowledge and experience would be a bit dated if you go to Powder Horn and staff Wood Badge later (but the staff development session should bring you current) Since Scouters basically exist for the benefit of the Scouts (Every Scout deserves a trained leader), my opinion is that you should take Powder Horn so that you can bring the knowledge of both Wood Badge and Powder Horn to your unit. You can probably staff Wood Badge and maybe even Powder Horn later. Personally, I attend far more training as a student that I staff. I like to staff, but I figure my primary responsibilty to to provide skills and knoweldge to the unit and Scouts. Staffing courses to me is not really a big deal - I do it sometimes, but I don't live for it. Course the flip side of that is if you staff, you are helping supply knowledge to lots of other Scouters who should take that back to their units. I had a similar dilemma. I had already attended Wood Badge - but I opted to attend Powder Horn rather than staff Wood Badge or other courses at the time. I have not yet been invited to staff Wood Badge since, but I have been asked to staff Powder Horn (If we can get a course going). Again, just my opinion.

I am inquiring about any special unit based (den, pack, troop, team, crew) awards for Scouters (registered adults) in the unit. (Not awards from outside the actual unit). I would like to know the name of the award, purpose/requirements of the award, and what it is comprised of (patch, bead, medal, etc) Our troop only has one, a special patch that recognizes a Scouter in the unit the first time he/she attends summer camp with the troop. It is only awarded once to each Scouter who has attended summercamp. It is worn as a temporary patch on the right shirt pocket. It is just called the Scouter's Summer Camp Patch. I know of one unit that awards a carved wooden "acorn" to each Scoutmaster upon completion of their tenure as a Scoutmaster in the unit. It is a small (about 3/4" in diameter) carved wooden acorn that has a leather thong about an inch long. It is worn as a dangle from the shirt pocket flap button. The Scoutmaster Acorns are highly prized by former Scoutmasters of the unit. Any others out there? Thanks.

Never heard of it. But as a shot in the dark guess I would say that one of the requirements is 25 nights of camping.

When it comes to camping gear, in our unit, we advise the Scouts and their families to take their time, and get only the essentials, at least at first. Since our unit does little camping/hiking that actually requires hiking boots, we suggest they get the other essentials first. But some discount stores have hiking boots for a reasonable price - they can be had for under $50. Watch for sales - buy large if you have to at the sales. We recommend waterproof hiking boots. For the other stuff, after the uniform and handbook, health form, etc, we recommend the following: Sleeping bag rated to at least 40F in a waterproof bag Sleeping pad - closed cell foam (Make sure to explain what it is and how to use it - we found one Scout had just left his rolled up in the corner of his tent because he did not know how to use it) Mess kit (or equivalent components)in a carrying bag Flashlight (small) with extra batteries preferably in a belt pouch First Aid Kit (we teach them how to make their own) Rain Gear (we recommend a poncho at first) Compass Matches in a waterproof container Jacket Sweat shirt Jackt/cap Sleeping clothes (shorts or sweatpants & t-shirt or sweatshirt)(We find that if we don't have them bring clothes to sleet in, they will sleep in the clothes they wore all day which is not a good thing) Hygiene items (soap, toothbrush & paste, towel) Change of clothes as needed Small duffle bag to carry it all in. Small backpack (to carry items in around camp to activities) Hot/Cold weather clothing and items when needed) And in today's Scouting we recommend a camp chair or stool. After that, they can start getting all the other stuff, once they gain more experience and commitment to Scouting. Boots would be on that list. Our unit has tents so most of our Scouts don't get their own unless they already have one, just want one, or as they get older most want one. As they gain experience and commitment, the rest of the equipment will follow kind of naturally. Some of them go the whole gear load right off, but we don't recommend that. We have a clothing and gear list that is designed to indicate clothing and gear needed for specific activities (meetings, general activities not involving camping or hiking, camping, hiking, backpacking, summer camp, winter camp (it's all on one page too). And then we have a general clothing and gear list that is on the back of our activity permmission form that covers most activities. Hope this helps.

We are interested in Scout summer camps in Texas and would appreciate any input you all have about Texas Scout camps. Especially the name, location, and quality of the program, and quality of the service provided by the staff - and oh yeah, the food.

I would like to see some input from you all about sleeping bags. What you have, have used, recommendations, etc. From my experience, most Scouts tend to get inexpensive bags rated down to maybe 40F. Generally from discount stores that generally don't sell very high quality bags. That doesn't mean that some of those bags will serve reasonably well under many conditions. In our area, for about 9 months of the year, a 40F bag will work fine. In fact, in the summer, many of us just sleep in shorts and t-shirts on top of our sleeping bags. But, for a few months, the temperatures can change frequently and at times drastically, sometimes in a very short time. I have seen it go from 70F at dusk to the lower 40s by late evening. I have gone to sleep on top of my bag in shorts, to wake up at 0200 to a freezing rain. I own several sleeping bags. One is rated to 0F, a couple to 20F, and then some others. What we recommend to our Scouts, if money is an issue, it to get a bag rated to 40F, AND an inexpensive fleece sleeping bag, that when inserted into a regular sleeping bag, can give you another 10 to 20 degrees. Works for me anyway. And the fleece is comfortable, soft and warm, and most of those bags can be unzipped and double as a camp blanket. We also advise them to stay away from bags with the insulation baffles that are sewn clear through - makes for cold spots. Personally, I don't like mummy bags. They are too restricting, and it seems that I get cold in them - especially my feet, and the hood is just uncomfortable, and I always seem to wake up with it twisted side-ways covering my face. My 0F bag is a mummy and I really don't use it much - It is a Camp 7. One of my bags is a modified mummy. Rated to 35F - not too bad. But I prefer retangular bags. My favorite is rated to 40F and is very comfortable. A friend of mine, recently tried a very lightweight down bag, I think it was like 1 1/2 lb, and when the temperature dropped to near freezing, out came the retangular bag. From my expience, those extreme, high-end lightweight bags will not keep you warm. I have one Coleman bag rated to 20F, but it is so bulky, that I only use it in cold weather, when we can drive to our campsite. But it is very warm (flannel lined) and comfortable. For sleeping pads, I normally use a low cot - if I can, with a closed cell foam pad on the bottom and an self-inflating foam pad on top of that, then the sleeping bag. - If I can't use a cot, I just place to the two pads on the tent floor. BTW - adding a lightweight tarp, INSIDE, the tent, on top of a sewn in tent floor, can provide a bit more insulation from the ground, and when the tent leaks - never seen one that hasn't, most of the moisture goes between the addiional tarp and the tent floor. For backpacking, you can use a lightweight piece of plastic sheeting instead of a tarp inside the tent. I hate getting out of a sleeping bag when it is cold. One thing I find has helped is to select clothes I am going to wear the next morning, roll them up and put them in the foot of the sleeping bag (usually pants, socks, and a clean t-shirt, and longsleeved shirt). That way they are not freezing cold and it is much easier to put them on. I usualy wear sweat shirt and sweat pants, clean dry socks, and a knit cap in my sleeping bag when it is cold out. Works for me. Some say to wear as little as possible in a sleeping bag, but I get cold doing that. I say whatever works for you, works for you. Don't you just love it when someone tells you "Aw it ain't cold." If I am cold, I am cold and no one is going to convince me that I am not. Everyone has different temperature tolerances. The foot gear you worn during the day will be wet from perspiration. I recommend, taking them off, and wearing moccasins or sneakers before bed - giving the boots a chance to dry a bit. Wipe them out with a small towel and get them as dry as you can. Then, either stuff socks or towels in them when you go to bed or at least cover them. It helps. What do you all do for sleeping bags and such?