OneTime Runner

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""They don't seem to think we are capable of planning anything, or executing said plan." "Did it ever occur to you that the Adult Leaders may be correct? That you really are not capable?" All the more reason for the adults to step back. If they fail, the will learn more from the failure than what the adults can teach them. Let the boys plan the cruise. If they don't bother to check the boat schedule, then they can spend the day sitting on the dock waiting for it to return. If they forget to plan the menu and buy the food, they can go hungry for a couple of days. As long as their plans and actions stay inside the safety guidelines established by the BSA and their ship, let them make the mistakes. It will keep them from making mistakes when they're outside the safety net of scouting. As the saying goes: Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. -Dan Stanford

Eagledad:I wanted my guys to screw up. Telling the parents that won't win me any converts. Everyone else: Let's see if you agree or disagree with these statements: When the patrol method is working well, the only skill that the adult leaders should be teaching on a regular basis is leadership. or: In order to implement the Patrol Method, leadership is the ONLY skill we need to be teaching.

Summarizing post so far: 1) Provides Hands on Experience. 2) Gives the scouts real responsibilities. 3) Gives the scouts a safe environment to experience failure, and learn from those failures. 4) Gives the scouts the opportunity to succeed on their own. 5) Creates an environment where the scouts can have, and be, positive peer role models. And I'll add my two cents in now: The Patrol method works because it uses peer pressure to reinforce positive behavior, discourage negative behavior, and motivate advancement.

It's easy to tell parents that the patrol method works. It's easy to tell parents what the patrol method is. It's easy to tell parents how the patrol method work. It's not so easy to convince them that it WILL work. Regardless of the fact that it's been working for 100+ years now, I'm still getting resistance from some of the parents on our council. What I'm finding is that the resistant parents, even though they know what the patrol method is, don't believe it will work. I think they're refusing to believe it for two reasons: 1) They want to stick with what they're comfortable with: being a parent. 2) They're afraid of the patrol method because they don't understand WHY it works. They don't believe that advancement, skill, and character can develop when adults aren't teaching it. To them it sounds like I'm saying, "step back and watch an eagle scout magically appear!" So my question to the forum is this: "Why does the Patrol Method work?" I already have my own thoughts on the subject, but I'd like to see what other people think first. So tell me, what's under the hood? Why does the patrol method work?

Thanks, Eagle92 I would not tell him it's a bad idea, In some situations, I can agree with you. But my read on the situation, and I could be wrong, is that the young PL lacks confidence. In that case, letting him come to a wrong conclusion and failing is worse than forcing him to come to the right one. In other situations, your right. Sometimes kids will give you a wrong answer just to get you to give them the right one. If you think they're doing that, you method is effective in nipping that behavior in the bud. A word of warning though, make sure you word your response in a way that it doesn't come back to you as "He told me to do it this way!" Let's try somesample scripts: (PL lacks confidence.) PL:Whereshould wepitchour tents? SPL: Where do you thinkyou should pitchyou tents? PL: I don't know. SPL: Then takea walkaround the campsite andpick a spot. Iknow you'll finda good one. (PL either doesn't want the responsibility, or wants the SPL to do the thinking or work for them) PL:Whereshould wepitchour tents? SPL: Where do you thinkyou should pitchyou tents? PL: I don't know. SPL: Then takea walkaround the campsite andpick a spot. Iknow you'll finda good one. PL: How about over there on those sharp rocks? SPL: If you think that'sgood spot, you shouldpitchyour tent there. I'm sure the partol trust you enough to rely on your judgment.

Dan K. Agreed. The orginial post was about situations where SPL knew the PL could handle them on his own, but wasn't trying. I was adressing that type of situation in my post, sorry if I wasn't clear.

SPL1Warwick, Sounds to me like you have a confidence problem. Your PL is afraid to make decisions. Here's a trick I learned from my SM long ago. He used to say, "Don't come to me with problems until you're ready to propose a solution." If it's something that you KNOW they can handle themselves, ask them, "what do you think should be done?" If he gives you a good answer, tell him to go do it. If he gives you a bad answer tell him why it's a bad answer, give him some guidance,and tell him to get back to you when he's figured something better out. If he says "I don't know", tell him to get back to you when he's thought of a solution. Before too long he'll learn that you're not going to do his thinking for him. As his confidence builds, he'll stop bugging you with little things.