onehouraweekmy

Every group is "exclusive" in that sense. The whole point of any organization, whether it be the scouts or the lady's knitting circle, is to promote certain common objectives with people who share the same goal-- and by definition this means "excluding" some people who do not share those goals or who cannot advance the organization's goals. The scouting movement is "exclusive" when it disallows girls to join (in the case of BSA) or boys to join (GSUSA). Or when they impose more or less arbitrary age limits. Or when they require leaders to be "morally straight." Exclusivity is not something bad, it is something good and necessary in order for a group to have an identity at all. That being said, the AHG allows all kinds of legitimate diversity within the framework of a generally Christian organization. From their website, I find no requirement that girls must be Christian to join, although apparently adults must. So although they may not be as "diverse" as the GSUSA supposedly are (although I question a "diversity" that drives so many good people from the organization), the question at the end of the day is "so what?" Diversity is not some holy grail to which all else must be sacrificed. It is a lesser-order good than other goods such as respect for traditional Judeo-Christian values. If it conflicts with those values, then it should give way so the fundamental values are not compromised. Anyway, that's the old-fashioned way of looking at it.

I have two sons in BSA, am my Troop's CC, and have a daughter who would love to be in scout-like activities. I support the BSA and have no problem with the way they handle the requirement that a scout be reverent. On the other hand, GSUSA has seemed to take a different path of involvement with more socially liberal activism that is repellent to traditional Christian values. When "diversity" is used as an excuse to foist anti-Christian values on a group, then it is not diversity, but agression. The GSUSA would be better off following the lead of the BSA and requiring belief in God, while leaving it to the scout to excercize whatever reverence is consistent with his religious upbringing. BSA stays away from hot social issues, unlike GSUSA, which has too often teamed up with Planned Parenthood and recognized lesbian groups, and often at least winks and nods at the types of shenaningans documented in other posts. Given that GSUSA has made the decision to use "diversity" as an excuse to alter the original aims of the organization, conscientious Christians are compelled to look elsewhere, such as AHG, for a group that will allow legitimate diversity (I am a Catholic for instance, and while I know little of AHG, would probably be comfortable amongst its members, as would believing Jews) while excluding those things that call into question the very nature and purpose of the organization.

Ummmm, that's not just smoking pot... point is, you put together enough "anecdotes" like this and soon you have a national movement like AHG. GSUSA may not like it, some on this board might not like it, but GSUSA has only itself to blame, by making it apparent in many small and some big ways that they do not intend to be a mainstream-friendly or at least a traditional values friendly group. That's precisely why AHG embodies diversity: diversity does not mean that every group must welcome whatever beliefs exist-- that would imply the destruction of any individual identity. Diversity here means that folks who value traditional values have somewhere to turn where those values aren't denigrated.

I'm no expert, but there's nothing in the AHG statement of Faith that a Catholic could not endorse. And given that GSA has taken a course towards more secular and certainly more liberal "values," many thoughtful Christians cannot reconcile their duty to their children's upbringing with the contrary values being embraced by GSA. As for "diversity," AHG would seem to be an example of it. If you want a Universalist experience where God means anything (and therefore, paradoxically, nothing), chose GSA by all means. If you want a group that is in the mainstream of the American and Western experience, chose AHG. That's diversity.

Thanks folks... I agree that the specific language of some of the requirements "while a first class scout [or star or life scout], do x, y, or z" demonstrates that when BSA does NOT use that language about the merit badges, the badges can be earned at any time prior to the rank being worked on. There is no specific controversy about this (yet) in my Troop, but as CC I just want to sound like I know what I'm talking about and that I'm on the right track--when the issue pops up as I'm expecting. I figured if there were specific rules about this out there, one of you guys would know about it! I also want to be able to give my new Advancement Chairman the straight story. Thanks a bunch.

Where the handbook states that x number of merit badges are required for a given rank, do the badges have to earned after work on the rank begins? I see nothing that expressly says so in the handbook or in the Advancement Regulations, and it seems that if a boy has earned 10 merit badges as a first class scout, when he is working on Star, he should be able to count those badges towards his Star rank. Or do you think the requirement is that however many he's earned, he now has to obtain 6 new merit badges in addition to whatever he's already earned? If that's the case, where is that stated in BSA policy. CC trying to get the answer right. Thanks.

Thanks, my sentiments exactly... and the bonus is this kid's enthusiasm has sparked some of other boys to get moving on advancement.

We've had a young man who's a real go-getter and has completed the requirements for Tenderfoot and Second Class within a few weeks. There has been some suggestion from our more seasoned Scouters that it is not proper to award Tenderfoot and Second Class at one Court of Honor. As CC, I can find no bar to this, since, unlike the higher ranks, there is no "time in rank" requirement, and assuming this scout completes his Scoutmaster conference and passes a board of review for each rank, I see no reason why he cannot be awarded both ranks at the same Court of Honor, even though he will have served no "time in rank" as a Tenderfoot. Views on this?

John-in-KC: Excellent stuff; I'm going to cut and paste your posting and put in the front of the binder I'm preparing for the new AC. I feel rather stupid for letting this situation develop, but I've been putting out several fires, including replacing the SM (former one rarely came to meetings and trips)(and happens to be the father of the AC who messed us up); and the Treasurer (who is wife of the former SM and mom of the AC). We're doing great with a new team, getting to be boy-led and have a great program... just need to get the new folks up to speed. Thanks again for all the help; I'm not panicking anymore!

Thanks for the suggestions... it gives me some roadmap to use when approaching Council. Sadly, our prior AC not only did not submit forms, he did not keep copies... lesson learned, I should have been checking behind him occasionally. Our new guy is totally ignorant of what to do, but that's a good thing, since I can show him the correct way! Thanks again for the ideas!

Here's my problem: I'm CC for a small Troop and we recently had an unpleasant parting of ways with the former SM, Advancement Chair, and Treasurer. Now in preparing for Advancement for an upcoming Eagle, I find that Council only has ONE advancement record on file, for the last Eagle scout we had. None, I say again, none of our boys show any advancement in Council records. The Life scout does have all but three of his blue cards, so hopefully we can convince Council to update his records. 1) For purposes of confirming the 21 MBs for Eagle, what information is relied on-- Council records, Troop records, both? 2) For the lost blue cards, two of which were earned at an out of state summer camp two years ago, what can be done to verify those badges again for purposes of Eagle advancement? Thanks for any suggestions... (This message has been edited by a staff member.)