OneHour

Beavah I have and still respect your opinions and guidance. I have been very objective about this boy. I do let my son(s) fight their own fight. This is different! This is one I have to take up the issue (not fight). This is an eagle scout, the epitome of the honor that I have been preaching and selling. What you and some others are suggesting is exactly what this boy's father told me before ... "boys will be boys and don't fret over it." I have to beg your pardon, but this is a repeating offender and an eagle scout. If this were another scout and not my son, I would have done the same! Sometimes there is a breaking point where as scoutldr pointed ... a repeating pattern of disrespect and abuse (physically or mentally) should not be allowed to continued. As pointed out that boys will do that ... then where did I miss in the Scout's Oath, Law, Motto that indicated that it is okay to do this? By suggesting for me to teach my son to have a one line comeback makes me (and my son) no better than this scout! I can teach them to demoralize this boy with the best of them, but then I am being a hiprocrite, am I. "Do as I say and not what I do." My love and respect for scouting and its values are what I would like to pass on to my boys and the scouts. I would like to think that the Eagle Scout rank is still worth the values that it is representing! If I am wrong let me know and I will stop selling scouting! YIS, 1Hour ps: I have no problems of letting either of my boys take care of themselves. They both are 1 degree black belt in Tae-kwon-do and extremely capable of defending themselves; however, they have been taught by my wife and I to show extreme restraint. My son's tears are for anger because he can't hit back! He is not a "cry baby" as suggested. By the way, he is 13 and 7th grader. My mistake about the 2 years younger ... he is 3 years younger. Have you all ever been picked on and bullied when you were younger? If you have, then you would understand that what may be amusing to others is not too amusing to you. I know it very well when I was his age. I was bullied and prejudiced against because of my size and my race! Because of this, trust me, I teach my sons to be independent and strong. They don't need me to defend them! Their fear is getting my lectures for getting into a fight!(This message has been edited by OneHour)

There is a history with this young man. This is the same young man who had the "mooning" incident that I previously mentioned. This young man picked up a ball and threw at my older son's face at point-blank and full force. This is the same young man who disobeyed my direct instruction not to climb a prohibited area. This is the young man who would do nothing to help the troop setup or tear down. This is the young man who taunted a younger scout in front of me. Am I nit-picking on him? No, various scouts brought these to my attention. Why don't they bring it to the SM? You got me. Face-to-face, sure. Been there and done that! The father (an ASM) defended his son and I mine. Result? Nothing. Copying SM and CC, result ... probably nothing. Why not face-to-face, because I will say something that will be unscoutlike and I will regret! Barry, I have been very diplomatic for the past 3 years, surprising very scoutlike! It came to the point where I do not show up to the campout that the father is on. Why? The father belittles me and patronizes me, but this is not about my relationship with the father. Is it just one point-of-view? No, there were to other scouts there and at least one of them confirmed that the young came over and unprovokingly started to demoralized my son who is 2 years younger. My son became the butt of the joke! Right now, he wants to quit scouting. Was I there? No. Gold Winger ... come to think of it ... I have answered my own question. I am not over-reacting. Every man will have a point where his family comes first! Thanks any way.

16+

My son came home from a recent campout. He was practically in tears as he recounted how one of our newly minted eagle scout called him "mentally retarted." I wrote the boy's father an email asking that young man to apologize, copying our SM and CC. The rest is another story by itself. Am I over-reacting in expecting more out of an eagle scout? 1Hour

1) Christmas is coming up ... a great pen/pencil or junk holder for the kitchen for Mom would be great! Decorate it any which way. 2) First aid container for each cub's home! 3) Decorate them, collect, old pens, pencils, cissors, rulers, etc for Den crafts. 4) Pinewood Derby display! Let your imagination go on this one! 5) With some foams or cushion, a pinewood derby car carrying container. 6) Collections container! 7) Terraniums 8) Beta fighting fish bowl! the list goes on ....

Does it look like BSA nail? If it does then there is not much that you can do. Now, nickel-plated axles are great; however, it is still only 1 factor that will allow the car to win. There are the others factors: lube, wheels, weight, and alignment. One thing that would work is to ask the boy how HE made the car! Of course, you will have to ask other scouts as well. "Johny, how did you get those axles to shine so well?" Usually, the boy is more honest than his parent ... "my dad bought the axles from the Internet ... "

1/2" PVC pipe cut into 1/2" - 3/4" length. Use hotglue gun and mount a computer chip (got them from used electronic parts store). Adorn with googlie eyes and a trash bag tie. What the boys would have is a computer bug neckerchief slide. My wolves loved them.

Thank you all! One interesting fact ... My son came into the troop with 23 friends. Currently, he is #11 out of the original 23 to attain Eagle this year. They came in together. They achieved their final destinations together! There are 5 of the original 23 left. They all are Life scouts! Average age 15.8 years old. Of the remaining 5, 3 needs to finish their project. Two needs their final 2-3 eagle requirement merit badges. Another interesting fact ... the original 32 boys in the troop who hated my son's class when they came in, most of them decided to drop out and have nothing to do with the new boys! We basically rebuilt the troop. We are currently standing at 82 registered and 52+ active. In our troop, the average time that it takes to get from Scout to Eagle is about 61 months. Eagle factory? Neah ... it is pure peer pressure! Good program? Neah ... but we're trying! I am very proud of my son and his friends!

Tonight, perhaps, it is my proudest moment in my scouting days. My oldest son joins the elite group! He is an Eagle Scout! He just walked out of the BOR, beaming from ear to ear. I am a proud father, indeed! Eagle ... a rank that very few scouts can attain and even fewer men have achieved. One down ... two to go! Cheers, 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Tents can be quite comfortable with a Byer cot ~ $60 and a sel-inflating mattress. I have a bad back. I bring the small cot with me to put inside the 3-man tent that I have. My son used to sleep in his sleeping bag next to me with no problems. People bring camper not for comfort for their backs, but mainly for weather-proofing (air conditioning or heating, rain, etc.). No one will fault you for using a cot or an air mattress in a tent, but they will make fun of you for the camper!

When I wear my uniform going into a supermarket or pouring gas (petro) before/after a troop meeting/outing, all that I get are: 1) looks of approval! 2) people walking up to me and telling me that they were scouts once (or even eagle scout), 3) little boys telling their moms ... "Mom, I want to be a scout! 4) ... or questions along the line "Where/when can my son join boy scout?" May be the fact that we have a strong scouting movement in our Master-planned community ... within the 5 miles radius we have 2 cub scout packs (each with 100+ boys), 3 troops (one 80+, one 40+, and one 15+), and a billion number of girl scout troops (okay ... so I exagerated it a bit ... a million or two!). It is uncool? Neah ... some of the popular boys are in scouting ... some of the jocks are in scouting ... some of the scholarly students are in scouting! It is as recognized as the sports. Our community paper has at least 2-3 articles about scouts and scouting every month. Embarrassed of being a grown man in a boy scout uniform ... neah ... proud instead. Proudest ... when a boy greets me as "Hi, Mr. ...!"

A co-worker pointed me to this great article. The magazine is Classic Trains (Summer 2007). It recounts "How the railroads moved 35,000 Boy Scouts to the 1957 Jamboree." It has great pictures of the scouts and the trains. Below is the link to "a Texas Scout''s account of the 1957 Jamboree." http://www.trains.com/ctr/default.aspx?c=a&id=220 Here is the link to the issue itself. http://www.trains.com/ctr/default.aspx?c=i&id=2&iid=30 1Hour

It is scout like he who needs scouting the most! It will require a lot of TLC ... Tender, Love, and Coaching! ... and a boatload of patience would be needed! Hmmm ... been there, done that, and still doing it! It's going to be a project! Good luck, 1Hour

... wait a minute ... GNX Guy is correct ... scouting does pay! Let's see ... my "honey do's" is growing and getting lengthier. By the time scouting is over, my wife is waiting for the pay back!

no moneys ... no go ... unless you qualify for campership! Floating days are over for our troop.

Ah ... the age old debate ... how much should boy-lead be? The old management style and technique holds true till now and in the future. ... If you don't teach them, don't blame them and don't expect any more. In our troop, first and foremost, only scoutmasters attend campout unless seatbelts are needed. When parents come on campouts, they are assigned tasks to help with the troop. Their expectations are managed before and during the campout, including leaving their sons alone and sleeping with their sons. There are exceptions to the case. We had a scout who had night terror. The only person who could watch after him at night is his father. We also had a scout who is extreme ADHD. Again, for his safety, his father is asked to watch after him including at night. Of our 7 years of existence we have not had a parent who asked for his son to sleep with him. As for cooking, the scoutmaster who is responsible for the NSP usually stand with the patrol to teach them how to cook and prepare their meal for the first time, not cooking for them but to coach them how to cook. If a parent decides to interject himself, one of us would politely ask him to let them experiment on their own. Having said that, we have not had a good quartermaster. The troop's gears are in terrible shape. One of us adults will have to interject before we have to spend $$$$ to replace gears. To date, this style is working out for us, but times again, we are still challenged with the fine line between adults' intervention and boys' total freedom. Again, ideals will only work so far. 1Hour

If it is for Webelos then get them a compass that would be useful for them in boyscout, something along the line of: Suunto A10 Partner II for $8 each http://cspoutdoors.stores.yahoo.net/a1000partner.html They sell 'em at Academy for about $10. or Silva Polaris for about $10 http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5237940 or Generic compass can cost around $5 http://www.outinstyle.com/Merchant2/agent.mvc?AG=froogle&SC=PROD&C=CH-COMPASSES&P=RCO-398 But as indicated above get base plate compass that they can use in boyscout. I bought my son webelos den the Suunto A10 as a graduation gift. 1Hour

... IT'S THE ONLY PLANET IN THE SOLAR SYSTEM WITH CHOCOLATE!!! ... that we know of! There might be something better than chocolate out there in the universe! Neah! You're right ... the only planet that has Hershey!(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[All] Hello gwd-scouter [nodding aggreeingly], I am a recovering addict as well. Actually, the forum members helped me overcame my addition. At one time there were a few spirited and die-hard scouters who seem to have the knack of teaching the world of the ideals. It came to a point where I simply stop posting to avoid confrontation. I found myself frustrated with the arrogance. At one time, I feel that this forum is where folks come to find out best practices of what worked and what doesn't. Nowaday, I spend more time with the family, the troop, and the pack ... in addition to the teams (chess, basketball, scocer, swimming). Yes, I am a recovering Scouter.com-aholic. 1Hour

... don't ask for volunteers ... assigned them (diplomatically of course). If the event fails through, then be it. Approach the person(s) with the task/event and ask if he/she will chair. The trick is to publicize it once you got the volunteer(s) ... then everyone will know who has successfully pulled it together or dropped the ball. Most importantly, recognize him/her for the job well done. When you ask for volunteers, assuredly, no one will step up. I learned it the hard way when I was the lone-ranger trying to pull all the events together for a Pack of 132 boys! Don't get me wrong ... there were a lot of helps, but no one stepped up to lead the events. Needless to say, after two years in the CM seat ... I was burnt.(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Our SM cannot make it to every campout either. Nowaday, it is awefully difficult to work the schedule that we all have and still make it to campout, troop meetings, soccer games, basketball games, orchestra performance, band performance, and the list goes on! Our SM works for an oil/gas company and does a lot of off shore ... he makes it as many campouts as his schedule allows. That is why the task of scoutmastership is being shared by 6 other men. Each of us ASM takes 2 campouts/activities and leads them (essentially become the scoutmaster for the event). If our SM is there, he has the job; however, if he doesn't the lead ASM has the job. We all are trained and we all work well together. The boys have become to us well and what we do. When there is a scoutmaster conference is needed, usually the two most tenured ASMs take on the task. Bottom line is that if all of your adult leaders are trained and know what and how the program is to run, then there should be a reason why the SM is needed at every campout! Sometimes, the SM needs a break, too! As all other indicated, gwd ... you are doing a wonderful job. Thank you on behalf of your scouts and their parents! 1Hour

So ... the question that was asked is the other troop doing the right things. If that were asked of me (which it was at one time), my answer would still be the same as above; however, I prefaced it with: " ... I cannot speak for other troop. Our troop follows what Lord Baden Powell prescribed close to 100 years ago, the patrol method. The patrol method includes .... ... (Troop's highlights) ... Our adult leaders are all trained to allow the boys this freedom to learn to lead each other. Is Troop XX doing it wrong? I cannot tell because I am not part of that troop. So I cannot tell you exactly whether the troop is good or bad. The one thing that I would like to point out to you is that our troop seems to be chaotic at times and clueless at other times. This is normal. It would be too easy for the adults to step in and run a perfect troop meeting or outing and all the boys rank advancing at the same time. The bad part about adults' doing everything is that the scouts learn nothing about leadership, responsibility, cooperation, and accountability. I cannot tell you that Johnny will like our troop or Troop XX. It is entirely up to Johnny and what interests him. If it doesn't work out on one, the other troop is still available. As I have pointed out Mrs. Johnny's mother, each troop has its own strength and weaknesses. As long as the Scouts are having fun, growing, and living by the Scout's Oath and Law with minimum adult involvement, then the troop is doing the right thing. After all scouting was put together for the boys ... not for the adults!" That what I told a concerned mother with the same question two years ago. Her son is currently a 1st scout in our troop and enjoying every minutes of his time in our troop. 1Hour

There is no need to make the other troop looks bad. All that you have to do is to promote your troop and sell scouting! When the webelos visits, explain to the webelos' parent: - how a scout troop should be run (ie. boy-lead) and how your troop is functioning in such effort. - what fun outings, events, activities that your troop have done and where and where your scouts are planning for this coming year. - your troop advancement process and progress (how well your scouts are advancing and what they do to get there. - summer camp ... where your troop has been and where are you going. - annual planning ... - point out how the scouts interact during the meeting. - point out any training that you provide for the boys (JLT, skills, etc.) - point out any specialty that your troop is known for (car camping, backpacking, canoeing, hiking, biking, etc.) There are troops that only car camp or backpacking or pack and paddle .... etc. What makes your troop different? - point out any high adventure events, patrol, etc. - point out the number of Eagles, retention rate, etc. - point out the number of trained adults and what they are trained for. - describe and let them experience a typical campout. - describe how your committee work and the involvement of your CO. lastly, I would tell them - let each cub decides by himself what troop he wants to join with the parent's guidance and - if your troop is not chosen, at least have the boy stays in scouting, because that is more important than not. This is what how I usually sell our troop. Good luck, 1Hour

Howdy SR751Fox from a fellow Texan (Sam Houston Area Council) ... welcome! 1Hour

"then the whole group received checkouts (seemed like that was mostly ASMs) on the same campout or within a week or two." Whole group receives checkouts on the same campout is highly unlikely. Each scout has to demsonstrate his skills individually at the next troop meeting or campout or thereafter. The key is for an ASM or senior scout to never sign off on active memory! It seems to work for us. Traditional prescribed way is difficult for a troop of 70+ boys. We may be doing it incorrectly the way that it ought to be, but one thing is for sure, our boys retain a lot of the skills by the time they are Stars!