OneHour

In a cub scout pack, a den is a group of 6-8 boys who are in the same age and grade. They work together to achieve the same rank. Webelos are 4th and 5th grade boys in a den that may wear boyscout patrol patch (scorpion, cobra, etc.) to give themselves an identity just as the boy scouts patrols do; however, they are still referred to as and by their den number. The den is lead by an adult den leader. In boy scout, the patrol is a group of Scouts (6-8 boys) who belong to a troop and who are probably similar in age, development, and interests, but not necessarily. The patrol is lead by a Patrol Leader who is one of the scouts in the patrol.(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Very true ... very nice! Thanks! With your permission, I would like to use this for the Troop's scoutermaster's son's ECoH. YIS, 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

...A troop that any "merit badge days" is an advancement mill... By that virtue,then any troop that participates in a District held merit badge day is an advancement mill. Hey wait but our District encourages the troops to participate District events because the District is there to provide the troop with supports so that the troop can benefit from the moneys that the troop collected during the Popcorn sales or FOS. What a dichotomy! A good program is one that will allow the scouts opportunities to learn, grow, and advance. What's the difference between a poorly run merit badge day and a bad merit badge counselor who just signs off the blue card without much guidance or coaching on the merit badge? Okay, so you cycle the boys through the bad mb counselor one at a time. By that you "space out" the Eagle candidates? Is that the objective? On the flip side, a well run merit badge day will have great mb counselors who are there to introduce/teach the boys a skill, a career, or a hobby, while engage each scout. There is some truth into what Horizon said: "Eagle Mill" = what we call the Troop that has more Eagles than ours. "Too Young for Eagle" = what we call a boy younger than ours that makes Eagle. "Advancement Mill" = what we call a Troop that holds [or attends] more merit badge days than ours. ... but you are taking away the one-on-one interaction with the boy. So exactly, when can you have one-on-one interaction with the boy if YPT is taken under consideration? The troop that I was with had a successful year last year. They had 11 Eagle CoH. Does this mean that the troop is an Eagle Mill? No ... it so happened that there were 11 Life scouts who finished their eagle at different time during the year. They were all at different ages ranging from 14.6-17.9 years. Yet another troop called us an Eagle Mill!

... talking about dog and poo ... I have to share this new knowledge about mixing canines. So one of the scouts came up and ask me this and I'm not quite sure about the answer: When you cross a Yorshire Terrier with a Poodle, you'll get a Yorkiepoo. When you cross a Chihuahua and a Poodle, you'll get a Chipoo. What do you get when you cross a Bulldog and a Shih Tzu? 1Hour (12.5 years old)(This message has been edited by OneHour)

... ah ... doc ... you are correct! Sometimes, you have to have thick skin or at least some of those duck feathers on you! If I and a few others who posted here since 2003 or earlier let every comment chaps our hides, then we would have been gone a long time ago; as a matter of fact, we have. Bob White left at least 3 times that I can think of. It's all words that folks are typing. If you let your emotion takes over then you have lost, just as I have. This forum has a lot to offer. You just have to read it with a set of filtered lens! Take what you need and leave what you want so that others can benefit. See you down the scouting trails! 1Hour

Congratulations! Please tell your son this for me: "Eagle Scout is not just a rank, but a way of life. Earn it, then live it!" Congrats! 1Hour

... follow up question, does a MBC need to be a current registered member of a troop or can he/she turn one application in once only? In other words, does the MBC have to turn in to the District an adult app every year?

boysmom3 ... all that I can say is that the assistant scoutmaster(s) who left there left for one reason. Find out what that reason is and correct it as a united committee. Yes, you can participate and influence through the committee. The assistant scoutmaster(s) who left are out there dying to get back and work with the boys. He (they) doesn't want to because the issue that caused them to lose the fun in working with the boys is still there in the troop. For reasons only they would know, they chose the path less taken to remove the adult conflicts from the troop! All it takes is for the troop determines the worth of the person(s) who left and find a solution so that they can come back. They are either waiting for the wind to change or they resigned themselves to sit out until asked. Have you talked to the leaders who dropped out? Has the troop done anything to change? At work, if I lose a great staff, I'd do everything in my power and influence to keep him/her. The troop should too. I should know this very well. I am of those assistant scoutmasters who are sitting on the sideline. Just recently, several of the parents told me that the current scoutmaster and committee chair will be approaching me to see if I would take over. The parents were exicted. The boys were excited. Heck, my sons and I were excited, but that was 2 months ago! Something just doesn't change! I am at peace on the sideline, working with the scouts outside of the troop wehn I can. All that I am saying is that if the leaders who left are worth keeping than the ones remained, then make the necessary change for the sake of the Troop and your son. As Beavah suggested, talk to your COR or the non-offending adult members of your troop or any of the BSA groups. Influence or act as the catalyst for change! Good luck, 1Hour

Hey ... thanks for the prayers. Sorry about not able to get back. My blackberry lost the last bar of juice during the peak of the storm! Lost power for the last 3 days. Power finally got back this afternoon. Internet recovered about 1 hour ago. We are more fortunate than others. A lot of devastion in the costal areas. 2.2M folks out of power. As of today, only 500k are back with power. Our house sustained roofing damage and ceiling. Many trees fell in our neighborhood. Cleanup is going to be massive. I have been through Alicia. I was single. Now, I have a family. It's different! I will have to say ... scouting helped us tremendously! We have a zillion flashlights and batteries. 2 gas stoves in addition to my gas grill. We have 4 tents ... so leaky roof wss never a worry. Three 5-day coolers helped with the frozen food! We have water coolers to store over 30 gallons of water. We have dry food and backpacking food out of the wazoo! We lived the scout motto! Even preparation, could ease our nerves when the wind hits 100 mph! The boys loved it and thought it was fun! Youngest slept through it all! It was memorable nevertheless! Thank you for your concerns. I am hoping that all of the scouts and scouters in Houston faired well. YIS, OneHour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Correction, it's Center Point Energy and right now, they have 1.8M folks out of power! It looks as if they won't try to bring power back until Sunday and having other out-of-state help to restore power until Monday. It has been a long night and it looks as if it will be a long weekend and week! We are in the eye-wall. Wind is fierce! I am truly a geek! I am blogging while watching battery-operated TV (in stereo)!

Sitting here in the dark with my blackberry. We are hunkered down inside the master bedroom bathroom. It is getting really bad out there. The wind pounded the southside of our house. It is loud and my youngest is still sleeping! . This is only the beginning! We have about 6 hours of this left! The eye just got to Gavelston! Wow. My prayer for good outcome to all in Houston and surrounding areas! 1hour

Sitting here waiting for Ike to make landfall, it's a very surreal feeling. We have batten down the house. Wind is howling about 30-45 mph and getting stronger. Landfall is estimated around midnight. It will be interesting! We're about 80 miles in land. TV shows that coastal areas are flooded and what used to be the seawall is under the water ... and it hasn't even rained. The water surge is coming! Wishing all of my fellow scouters and scouts ... safe and dry night! God speeds! Trying to make the best of it while the power is still on! The storm has reached 110 mph, 1 mph till Category 3. Where we live, the wind has reached 51 mph wind gust according to the news. Reliant Energy indicated that 250k folks are out of power. We're fortunate to still have power. We're slightly on the "clean side," but then with a 800 miles wide storm ... is there a clean side? Cheers 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Trustworthy ... it is most difficult for me to keep remotely close to speed limit! Telling my wife that one of her dishes is great when it is really not ... and it goes on! Nothing blatantly lies of course. Loyal ... I have changed job 8 times ... loyalty is not my strong forte. Helpful ... I have a difficult time in being helpful to the troop right now since I have stopped my participation. Friendly ... nuff said on this one. You can check my other posts and you'll see how unfriendly I am. Courteous ... guilty as charged. It is most difficult to be courteous to a few people at work who are very belligerent! Kind ... I turned away State Trooper fundraising folks several times already. I have been prejudiced against by one of Texas Trooper's finest ... to the point of almost having him pulling his gun on me for no apparent reasons! Yes ... it was for a traffic stop! See Trustworthy above. No ... only for doing 4 mph over the speed limit! Yes ... I did 74 on 70 mph. On top of that I let go 3 of my staff for running a gaming server at work. Kindness is not one of my forte as well. Obedience ... I have yet listen to my boss (the wife), my kids, and my scouts and return to the troop! ****** Now for the ones that I am good at ***** Cheerful ... hey ... something that I actually am most (88.98%) of the time! Light-hearted is my middle name. Thrifty ... my wife calls my cheapskake, but I still prefer the term thrifty. Brave ... I will defend my family, staff, scouts, and love ones! Clean ... shower once and sometimes twice a day. Okay, in Houston, three times is the norm. Reverent ... Buddhism and my ancestors will forever be in and with me! 1Hour

... it is also a time to make sure that all requirements are done (ie. signed off) ... to dot the "i's" and cross the "t's" before the BOR ... Another question that I usually ask ... what is your leadership aspiration (ie. what position would you see yourself?). This will allow you and the SPL to help the scout to achieve his leadership goal(s).

Reading various news reports, I am both very saddened for the losses and extremely proud of the scouts and their leaders. The lifeskills that the scouting program trained these young men with allow them to help others and themselves through this tragedy.(This message has been edited by OneHour)

My most sincere and deepest sympathy and prayers for all families involved.

... when your favorite songs such as "Suzie Q.," "Who'll Stop the Rain," "Eve of Destruction," "Elenore," and the likes reached 40+ years old and your sons refer to them as "ancient musics!"

OGE ... Pack was referring PTI as pre-trial intervention (see Beavah spunned thread). ... the last thing that we, as scouters, would want is to ruin a boy's life. We, as scouters and parents, will want to see the glass as "half full." Sometimes, the glass is truly "half emptied." It is a difficult judgement call. Hence the reason for my post and Beavah's thread is when do we know when to "fish or cut bait." Cheers, 1Hour ps: We will now conclude our broadcast ... "And that's the way it is ..." (Walter Cronkite)

Ed and Bob, y'all may help me find where it states that the Council needs to be notified. I looked and looked in the G2SS and all that I can come up with are the following sections: ****************************************************************************** The Boy Scouts of America prohibits the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members. ****************************************************************************** Member Responsibilities All members of the Boy Scouts of America are expected to conduct themselves in accordance with the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law. Physical violence, hazing, bullying, theft, verbal insults, and drugs and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program and may result in the revocation of a Scout's membership in the unit. ****************************************************************************** Unit Responsibilities Adult leaders of Scouting units are responsible for monitoring the behavior of youth members and interceding when necessary. Parents of youth members who misbehave should be informed and asked for assistance in dealing with it. The BSA does not permit the use of corporal punishment by unit leaders when disciplining youth members. The unit committee should review repetitive or serious incidents of misbehavior in consultation with the parents of the child to determine a course of corrective action including possible revocation of the youth's membership in the unit. If problem behavior persists, units may revoke a Scout's membership in that unit. When a unit revokes a Scout's membership, it should promptly notify the council of the action. The unit should inform the Scout executive about all incidents that result in a physical injury or involve allegations of sexual misconduct by a youth member with another youth member. ****************************************************************************** The closest incidents that require notification to Council are "incidents that result in a physical injury or involve allegations of sexual misconduct by a youth member with another youth member." I thought and thought about this and I would have to agree with our Committee's decision to suspend him; however, having the benefit of knowing this scout's behaviors and actions, I would also stand on the side of revoking his membership on two grounds: 1) I expect a whole lot more of an Eagle scout, the epitome of scouting and 2) what if one campout, he decides to get stoned again and with his beligerent nature, someone will get hurt. By the way, he has everything that a boy would want and a good set of parents who are very devout to their religion. His father was an Eagle scout who will defend his son at every turn. So bad home life is probably not a good assumption. Thanks for the advices and POV. 1Hour ps: Let's close the thread. Somehow it will bounce back to me as the topic.

le Voyageur, I will have to beg differ. I don't about other troop; however,in our troop and summer camps that we have visited, the lifeguard(s) guard by zone (non-swimmers & beginners and swimmer zone) and we do know how many went in and how many should come out, hence the buddy check and the swim board. I have been at public pools where the young lifeguards did not pay attention to the numbers. They scanned, but when safety break was called, they took off into the lg shack. I would agree with some camps and the lack of lg attention, but not all camp swimming programs are the like that.

Hello ChingKao. I was an Eagle advisor for our troop. All that your son has to do is to complete all of the eagle requirements as indicated below. The Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook is a BSA publication (no. 18-927) is used to document his eagle project (namely the details and all approvals). Once he completes all requirements through #5 below, he then requests a Scoutmaster Conference and then a Board of Review (BOR) where the District Advancement Chair or his/her rep will participate. The BOR questions will vary depends on the members. Sometimes, they would ask about his project, his scouting experience, his religious belief, his advice on how to better the processes, procedures, experiences for other scouts, what are his future plans, his aspirations, any lessons-learned from scouting/life/schoo, etc. It could be anything other than a re-test of the knowledge that he has learned and earned. Of course, some BOR members will not adhere to this and ask the scout the "technical" questions. The one thing that will cause the BOR to reject a scout outright is when the scout declares himself as an aetheist. You can read a lot of debate on this subject on this Forum (and folks ... this is not a thread on that so relax!). My oldest got his Eagle recently. He was not decorated with all of these awards and achievements such as the ones you mentioned. These awards that you mentioned are simply awards that allow a scout to go after to enhance his scouting experience and sometimes can be used to satisfy a requirement (such as the requirements in Camping merit badge where one of its requirements requires him to have camped a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights; -Hiked up a mountain, gaining at least 1,000 vertical feet or - Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least 4 miles or -Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours or ... etc.)! He can list them on his application (item #6 as Beavah pointed). If he listed his award(s), then they'll more than likely ask him about his experience in terms of how he enjoyed it, what he learned from it, how he can improve on it, etc. I agree with others, it's not a "make it or break it" item that you son should worry about if he did not earn a lot of or any at all. For our troop, a coach can be considered as an educator for reference purpose. Best wishes and luck to your son and congratulations! 1Hour ps: Here are the Eagle requirements and as you can see there are no requirements for the 50-miler, mile swim, etc.: 1- Be active in your troop and patrol for at least 6 months as a Life Scout. 2- Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. List the names of individuals who know you personally and would be willing to provide a recommendation on your behalf, including parents/guardians, religious, educational, and employer references. 3- Earn a total of 21 merit badges (10 more than you already have), including the following: First Aid Citizenship in the Community Citizenship in the Nation Citizenship in the World Communications Personal Fitness Emergency Preparedness OR Lifesaving Environmental Science Personal Management Swimming OR Hiking OR Cycling Camping, and Family Life* 4- While a Life Scout, serve actively for a period of 6 months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility: Boy Scout troop: Patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader, senior patrol leader, troop guide, Order of the Arrow troop representative, den chief, scribe, librarian, historian, quartermaster, junior assistant Scoutmaster, chaplain aide, or instructor. Varsity Scout team: Captain, cocaptain, program manager, squad leader, team secretary, Order of the Arrow team representative, librarian, quartermaster, chaplain aide, historian,* instructor,or den chief. Venturing crew / Sea Scout ship: President, vice president, secretary, treasurer, quartermaster, historian, guide, den chief*, boatswain, boatswain's mate, yeoman, purser, or storekeeper *Den Chief is not listed as an eligible position for Venturers in the 2008 edition of Boy Scout Requirements, but is listed on the current Eagle Scout Application. We have confirmed with the staff of the BSA National Director of Boy Scout Advancement that this position is acceptable for advancement to Eagle. 5- While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, school, or community. (The project should benefit an organization other than Boy Scouting.) The project idea must be approved by the organization benefiting from the effort, your Scoutmaster and troop committee and the council or district before you start. You must use the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, BSA publication No. 18-927, in meeting this requirement. 6- Take part in a Scoutmaster conference. 7- Successfully complete an Eagle Scout board of review.(This message has been edited by OneHour)

One piece is missing ... the COR COR-CC-SM-SPL-PL-Scout -----------------------> Direction of service as Beavah pointed out. SM-ASM/JASM/SPL SPL-ASPL/PL/QM/Scribe/Buggler/etc. PL-APL/QM/Scribe/etc. Wouldn't the COR be the same as the Chairman of the Board CC be the CEO SM be the President SPL be the Director ASPL be the Assistant Directors PLs are the Managers ... but then again I could be wrong ...(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Thanks, B. This is exactly what I was looking for and not so much as the spotlight. More than likely we, as Scouters, will run into this situation. Kids will try "it" out, out of curiosity or out of peer pressure. Ed, you indicated that "there must be some consequences doled out by the unit." What would they be?

... as always, E., well said. With that, I will let it go. YIS, 1Hour ps: for some reasons, I always try to read your posting with an English accent!

B., Yup, I have let it go. For six months, I have not been back. I got this news through my sons and concerned parents and it got me concerned. If it were another boy and it is his first time (trying it out), heck, I'm all for forgiveness and let's give him a timeout. I made stupid mistakes when I was their age once ... ok even twice and thrice. I have been gone from the troop, but that doesn't remove me from caring. You are correct again. I do not have direct contact with the troop. I was at peace and still am. The scouts and their parents still come over to talk to me about their eagle projects and their plans. I have thought about it and here is my concern. My concern is the influence that this young man will have on all the boys and my sons since my oldest is in the same patrol. My concern is from a typical parent. My concern is whether or not I would continue to let my 2nd son finish out his eagle with this troop or force him to go to another. Perhaps, my point is that this is not this kid's first serious infraction. The troop has decided to suspend him from troop activities for 4 months and 3 of which is summmer which our troop has very little activities. He is still eligible to attend the High Adventure trip. He was to apologize to in front of the troop to which I found out from my son that he did not. His father thought the punishment was too harsh. You said it best ... "Our role isn't to enforce laws, it's to work with kids." I'm not looking to go and challenge the Troop and its decision. I'm looking to see if troops out there have done it or not. If so, what was it. If the scouting community thinks that this is no big deal, then our Troop is in sync. Raising teenager is very difficult as everyone will admit. Sometimes I have to get all data before I can make a decision with them how to go forward. More and more as the months pass, the answer becomes clearer for us. The current SM will be stepping down and this boy's father seemingly wants to step up. That is our cue to definitely move on. But with all honesty, all that I want to see is what is an appropriate consequence for such action. I only fill in the details to give folks the background. Again, I'm not going to pull back that water that flowed under the bridge already. Am I here to find faults with our SM and CC decision? No, not at all. Sometimes, it just takes data to complete the picture. Beevah, you're right. Maybe someday, I may take on the SM position. In the meantime, I need to learn how to deal with various issue, eh? By the book, by logics, by passion, or by anything else. After all, scouting is a game with a purpose. As you indicated above, "I think all good adults try to do their best and use their best judgment. None of us get da call right all the time, and some not much of the time." I want to make sure that I learn from everyone and how they interpret the book and not just by the book as Bob always indicates. The flame is not hot any more.(This message has been edited by OneHour)