OneHour

Well, since everyone was in the mood to say so long, I feel that I should too. I recently resigned my ASM position after a short tenure, because of a Program that seems to conflict with my ideals. May be I am too much of the "by the book type." After a brief chat on the chat room, I realized that it may just be me. Rereading some of my posts and the responses on this forum, I think that my BSA ideals are not at all common to most scouters' view. I think that I am too idealistics, I am too inexperience, and that I don't have much to contribute any more to this forum nor to the troop. My ideals will collide with others who are working hard for the kids. I just want to thank all who have provided me great ideas and advices (the likes of Bob White, Barry, Dan, Scoutmom, dsteele, ...). I now fall back into my normal family life, no more committee meetings, no more district meetings, no more round tables, no more summer camps, no more monthly camps, no more spending hours reading Scouter.com, no more 1 hour, .... Don't get me wrong. I will still support my sons and their pursuit of Eagles when they need me, but only as a parent. My wife is happily awaiting for me to stop being a kid! Cheers and best wishes. Yours in scouting always, 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

It worked! Good article Eagle74. Thanks. Try cut and paste: http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=5&id=14932 (This message has been edited by OneHour)

Hey Mike, Houston bayous aren't that bad! As a matter of fact, you can virtually canoe down the neighborhoods surrounding the bayous every time it rains hard and some of those even resembles white waters, especially during a storm like Allison . Let me know how it went. I would love to take our troop to a similar outing! 1Hour

Come back Shane (I mean Bob), come back! A scout is: Trustworthy - be true to your words or at least the great BSA book that you have been thumping. Loyal - you have a legion of scouter that listening to your words of wisdom, then you in turn should return the loyalty. Helpful - the word speaks for itself and through your words, although, even I sometimes disagree. Friendly - make an enemy your friend or simply ignore him. Courteous - trading blows with he who wants to provoke is to play his discourteous game. Kind - you have devoted your time on this board to help others who seeks the ways of BSA. Obedient - BSA, BSA, BSA Cheerful - 95% of the time is not bad, you reserve the 5% rights to get ticked off at stupidity. Thrifty - you also reserve the rights to choose your words carefully so that other can learn or interpret as they wish. Brave - you don't have to quit because a noise appeared out of the blue. Stick it through for there will be others who seeks the answers from the Book! Clean - of body and mind ... the scouting ways. and Reverend - all is well will end well. He and everyone have to answer to the Man Upstairs. If I had taken things that were said to me as I took the Cubmaster position three years or along the way seriously, I would have quit the second day. Instead, I found out that somehow and sometime along the way, I made an impact on the boys in the Pack. I guess that my point is that you are here for a reason and that reason is for the scouters who come here to obtain advices from a group of great people. You are not here (nor am I or others) to read to a barrage of insults and criticisms from a school bully. I guess that when Fat Old Man gets out of his fog and comes to realize that all who involve in scouting serve the same purpose, then he would be a different man. YIS, 1Hour

6 - 8 is the right size for most activities, but I and my other leaders prefer to keep them even number as much as possible for buddy system and for a lot of the pairing games and crafts. 10 would be the max. More than that, you'll have crowd control problem due to the attention span and different degrees of skills that the boys will have. The larger Den will also pose logistic problems and as you pointed out someone will be left out. It is possible; however, it will require a lot of parental helps and a very well thought out Den meeting. Of course, so does the smaller den. In our Pack, we have various, but mostly 6-8 boys dens. We do have 1 or 2 10-12 boys den; however, they quickly trim down to 8-9 as the year progresses. We have 12-14 Dens in our Pack! So far the strongest Dens and most tightly knit are the ones that have 5-7 strong "core" boys (these are the ones that come regularly)! Key to any den is to keep them busied and entertained. Lots of prep work and planning. Get the parents to help. Plan B will always be in good use. Parent helps is a must. Lots of gathering activities and other activities for faster workers and overachievers. Get the parents to be involved. Have the boys take turn at various Den planning and tasks. Last but not least, did I mention lots of parental assistance? Good luck, 1Hour

sctmom, for our display, we had a poster displaying pictures of all the fun activities that we went to during the past year (put together by the boys). I also had pwd car with one original kit. It's great to see their faces react after I told them that they will be able to carve this block of wood into this car! I had Tiger and Cub uniforms hung on the back. I had bird houses and other crafts there as well. For looks, I had Boy's Life and Scouter Magazine fanned out on another table with old Handbooks from Tiger, Wolf, Bear, and Webelos (put the sign that says ... DO NOT REMOVE ... DISPLAY ONLY!) and a final kicker is that I had our pictures of past Pack activities and put them in a powerpoint presentation running on my laptop with a pair of multimedia speaker proudly sounding a complilation of God Bless America, Oh Beautiful, and God Bless the USA as background music. Of course, all this time I had two of my Webelos in full uniform, standing at the front door handing out FAQ about Cub Scouting, our Pack, and our Rally Night to every parent who walks in with a boy! I would stand there and field questions from prospective scout and parents. Good luck. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Eamonn, actually, it's not really humiliating the boys. It's what the camp health officer told us to do! To check with the boys to see if they have a regular bowel movement and ensure that they go to the restroom regularly each day. This is all to ensure that they are not dehydrated! It's really one spreadsheet and the duty roster. Where are all of the paperwork that you are referring to? We had, in our troop, two cases of heat cramp (one severe)! We had one case of stomach cramp as a result of the boy not having bowel movement in three days (laxative was administered by the health director). Take it however you like ... it's just something that I think that I will do to make our summer camp a whole lot more comfortable in the future! Let's put it this way ... I don't want to find out after one of my scouts suffer heat stroke! If you have a better method, let's hear it! If the SPL refuses to do this, then I or the other leaders will. Ours didn't! As for not scouting like, well to have the parents entrusted their sons to my care, I am making sure that I am doing my very best to keep them safe, even if it means that I have to ask the "poo-poo" question! I asked those questions each day at camp from each boy (of course I explained the reason why). It wasn't humiliating as far as I can tell. Everyone knew the danger of dehydration, so they all cooperated! Checking to see if they shower and brushing their teeth. Again, it was the camp health director's suggestion and the reasons were very sound. I guess that being the first time summer camper with the troop, I was dupped by the camp health director! I guess that being a true scout is to camp without anyone really looking out for you and that the leaders should trust that each boy will know exactly what to do with regards to heat and dehydration as well as hygene! I sit corrected then! May be I am dis-illusioned by the 100 degrees heat of West Texas! Yours (very tired) in scouting, 1Hour ps: or may be I should just keep my suggestions to myself! Yeah, that's the ticket! (This message has been edited by OneHour)

Just got back from Summer Camp, phewwww ... it was a long, but fun week! Of the 20 boys at Base Camp, we had over half came down with homesickness with three on the severe side (most are first timer)! Here are my lessons learned: 1) Have the boys div up into buddies (2-4) and have them choose the same merit badges. This way they will always have the same buddy or at least they should have at least one other from the troop to their merrit badge. This way they will not feel out of place and it's easier to keep track of the boys. Also, have a look at the camp before hand. Try to advise the boys to group their merit badges close to each other (ie. avoiding walking 2 miles from one end of the camp for horsemanship to the other end for canoeing ... it will not feel very good for four days ... bring bicycle [if allowed] and helmet if merit badge programs are spread out)! Most camp will have an "open program" day for Friday, use this to do easy merit badges such as Indian Lore, basketry, leatherwork, wood carving. 2)Homesickness - have the parents to prepare one letter for each day with the day's allowance in each letter, because the amount in the wallet will be spent at the trading post within the first two days and this will allow the boys to look forward to mail call and it will definitely ease the homesickness. Unfortunately, I only had one parent took me up on the offer! For money, average spending per day at the Trading Post is about $5 on junk food ... candies, slushies, soft drinks, and ice cream(or about $30 for the six days). One to two t-shirts will be purchased (if money is available) or average of $20 (some Trading Post will have dated t-shirts for $10 or less). Don't forget money for basketry kits ($6-$7), leather work kits ($1-$5), Indian Lore kits ($1-$3), and wood carving kits ($5-$10). This is not including any fees for merrit badges such as archery, riffle, horsemanship, sailing, etc. As you can see, if the boy has all his money in his wallet, it will be gone if he does not know how to manage it! One of ours lost his wallet the very first day that we were there! It did not show up until Friday! There is the "borrowing" factor. So alot of education will be required from the parents! 3) Print each boy's schedule out for him and have the SPL to post it on the bulletin board. Each leader should have a copy, because they will ask you! 4) Plastic hanger is very good. Bring extras. As for swim trunks, at least two, three is recommended with two towels (one for shower and one for swimming). 5) Suggest to the SPL to make a spreadsheet of the boys with the following columns: #2 restroom (bowel movement), shower, and brushing teeth. #1 and #2 restroom will determine if they will be constipated or not (a sign of not enough water intake). Shower should be done every day and of course they will try to get away from brushing their teeth all together if they can! SPL should check each boy daily. The SPL and the ASPL need to have it with them at all times. 6) Suggest to the SPL to put together the duty roster for 1) KP at the dinning hall for Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner. 2) Latrine cleanup. 3) Securing campsite. 4) Fire Brigade. 5) Camp gadget/ campsite improvement. (about KP, each table usually fits anywhere between 8-10, so 2 per table would work. If you have more than one table, then elect a team captain for each meal. The KP crew cannot leave without the team captain inspecting their table. We got this problem for the first two days! The boys simply went to the Trading Post right after the meal with very little KPing!) 7) Pick a rendez-vous site for such time as after campfire, before meals, etc. Have a roster so that the SPL can do a quick roll-call! We had a scare. Two of the boys went missing after the campfire and we searched high and low. It turned out that the two boys knew their way back to the camp site. 8) Bring ropes and staves for camp gadgets. Camp inspection provides points for this. 9) Have the boys bring a trash bag to put their dirty clothes in! 10) Bring aqua shoes for swimming area! 11) Bring an alarm clock! One leader needs to get up on the alarm. Trust me, after a hot and tired day ... you are gone after you lay down! 12) Bring games (board games, football, baseball gloves, hacky sacks, etc.) for the free time! 13) Bring sharpies and duct tape! You'll need them! Trust me! 14) Bring extra old hats! They will loose theirs and expose their heads to the hot sun! Bring extra sun screen lotion! 15) Bring a broom! To sweep the tent's wooden platform and to sweep off those spiders and bugs that the boys (usually the young ones) refuse to sleep if those bugs are in their tent! Remember, for a lot of the new scouts, this will be their very first time of camping! 16) Bring as many of the adult leaders as you can muster! Bring note books and pen to write with. I'll end here, but I have a boat load of other lessons learned! As you can tell, this is my first Summer Camp with the Troop! I would do the above next year! Sorry about the long post! Cheers and have fun! 1Hour ps: our 20 Base Camp boys (mostly Tenderfeet) earned well over 96 merit badges! Whoooo-hoooo! (This message has been edited by OneHour)

Hmmm, from the listings we can deduce that the large portion of those who answered are in our early 40s to early 50s! I do listen to everything in addition to the all time fave above, except rap, hip hop, and certain operatic number. I also love to "chill-out" to Yani and the "new age" groups. In the words of my Director at work who happened to see my car's CD collection one day, "You have a truly wide range of music taste, Rock, Hard Rock, Soft Rock, Folks, Country, Classical, Opera, and New Age. It does match your personality!" I asked, "and that is?" He answered, "Unpredictable, but fun!" 1Hour

Hey Eamonn ... I recognize Foreigner out of htc1992eaglescout47553 selections! It's the same Foreigner, right? Juke Box Hero, etc.? WHO is one of my favorites, too! Personal fav. are Turtles, Byrds, Rolling Stones, Who, CCR, Gordon Lightfoot, Jimmy Buffett, Moody Blues, Pink Floyd, and most if not all of the same eras! 1Hour

willysjeep ... that is a problem! I was calculating it using the "standard" wall tent dimension, which is the smallest of the three that BSA carries and the most popular with the Summer Camps. With a little more search, I found that troop 880 in Floriday has a schematic for it http://home.cfl.rr.com/troop880/Forms/Net_Frame.pdf . This should fit almost any of the wall tent. I also got the mosquito netting. Your are correct, the frame will need fit the netting. I will give it a try with a few small modification. My son will build his own though! Thanks. 1Hour Long

I saw a picture of a pvc frame for mosquito netting. Does anyone happen to have the plan for the frame that you can share? I could try to design one, but I'm missing a few details. Let's see the BSA standard wall tent has 3' 6" wall before it slopes up to 7' at the center. Moving 8" in from the wall, I'm looking at the height of the frame to the "slope" is about 50" (tall enough for a scout to sit upright on a cot that's about 18" off the ground). The width of the frame is about 32" and the length is 84". Does this sound about right? Any help is appreciated. YIS 1Hour

mgaesser, in the warning words of one of my favorite horror movies (and the way that this sounds ... you and your son are in one) ... "Get out! Get out! Get out!" (Amityville Horror) It's a battle that you may want to wage at a different level. To leave your son in this situation will no doubts leave a very bad taste in his mouth about BSA and not all scouters are of the same attitude! Out of curiosity, what do other leaders in your troop think of your son? Nevertheless, it is inexusable for the action that was taken and threat that the leader made. District and Council should be involved. Good luck. YIS 1Hour

June - Day Camp July - varies (resident camp, Houston Astros game, theme park, pool party, pinic, chess match against CM, visit local zoo, visit local aboretum, ...) August - varies (pool party, water gun fight, pinic)

Laura, please send our condolences to Scot's immediate family and Scot's scouting families. "It is not length of life, but depth of life." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~ and the depth of Scot's life has outpaced the long lives of others! May Scot rests in peace. With great respect, 1Hour

Bob White ... you have never heard of Den "family camping?" That's where you have several families that happen to camp at same facility about the same time with no association with BSA whatsoever and just have great fun! (... and everyone involved understood and agreed that they are on their own and they are responsible for their own family!) Of course, I would never call it anything but my family campout. Anything with the Den is automatically associated with BSA and that's a no no if you're not a Webelos Den! fotoscout ... we usually pushed the food/drink issue back to the Den level and they have two choices (1) Den-wise or (2) individual family (most chose individual family). As for activities, we pushed it to the rank level. Each rank is responsible for providing a particular activity and get a head count/funding to the Chair. Committee then approves or disapproves the funding. Simple as that. It has worked well for us for the last 6 Pack campouts. Sometimes we have activity fee ($5) to cover some of the cost. Usually, our Pack picks up the cost for the family campsite, but not the woods. If we get a trailer full of woods then we share, if not then each Den is responsible for their own. For us, the majority of the people stayed and camped with us for 2 nights. The others stayed for 1 night and very few came for the day-only trip. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

We have around 60 families attend our Pack campout. They come and go at different time and pace. As Twocubdad eluded to, planning is 80% of the effort! We usually have the chairperson for the campout. He/she usually plans the activities and solicits champions for them (usually a whole Den is responsible for a particular activity). A timeline is laid out so that everyone can decide when they would want to come. We usually have activities such as fishing belt loops, hiking, etc. for the morning. This will allow to late risers or day campers to attend the more fun activities in the afternoon and evenings. We usually divided the activities based on rank. Webelos will be doing activities pins requirement such as knots, fire building, etc. We, too, solicit a boyscout troop to help us. The other ranks do the requirement at their level. Usually, we have free time after lunch and before dinner. Campfire program is planned appropriately and well in advance so that songsheets and skits can be printed and handed out at the start of Saturday morning. By the time campfire rolls around, the songs and skits would have been rehearsed. I usually have the troop to put on an "instant on" campfire. That type of campfire usually wows the cubs! Of course all campfire safety guidelines were followed (except possibly the "instant on" part, but plenty of fire buckets and extinguishers on hand ... just incase). If we have no troop, I use the opportunity to teach the Webelos on fire building techniques and safety. We usually have 1-2 Baloo trained person(s) to handle the planning and to actively participate in the campout. 40-60 families campout is a massive undertaking! So my take on cubscout camping is ... great! When are we doing it again? 1Hour

"... teach responsibility is an expensive lesson in terms of leader time, attention and aggravation." Twocubdad, time is what I (and the likes of you and me) have to give and willingly give. Attention and aggravation about den dues are not really the issue. The issue at hand for me is to get the boys to the Den meetings! That's half the battle! It took me well over three months to collect money for the Pack t-shirt that everyone wants. So Den dues will be the least likely to be remembered. Some of the boys love Cubscouting, but their parents appearantly think that it's a chore to take their son! But if you were to form a baseball team, you'll see them their in full uniform, dues, and attendance! There are other (as Bob White puts it) "nuances of activities" that I use to teach 'em Responsibilities and other scouting values. Den dues and Pack dues are not one of them. OneHour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

"As for the Responsiblily theme, it's a great concept, and maybe it works elsewhere this great country of ours, but here I think it would be lost on the kids, let alone the Den Leaders." Ditto, fotoscout. Responsibility theme is great and ideal, but here, we have a hard enough time to get the parents to be responsible enough to take their sons to the Den meeting! Some these are the same people who ask that they just sign a check instead of subjecting their sons in a practice such as selling popcorn or scout fair ticket or any fundraiser! Some ... are firm believers in BSA (the Baby-sitting Services of America version that is!) and thus getting them to even remember that the Den meetings are 2nd and 4th Tuesday of every month and Pack meeting is 1st Monday of every month is a challenge, forget about getting little Billy to bring Den dues and definitely forget about getting Billy to work for his dues! Yes ... these are the same people who constantly ask ... when is the Pack meeting and when is the Den meetings? Hmmm, it still amazes me how some of these people function at work or at home! 1Hour

I usually have two ways of taking care of Den Dues: 1) $1/meeting 2) $20 for the whole year (five months with 2 meetings per month) It is adjustable depending on the type of Den activity that we are doing. My Den parents like the lump sum better for some reasons. Now, if there is left over, I usually take the boys out for an ice cream party at the end of the year (I usually make up the difference). I ask the parents to bring in old sissors, rulers, markers, crayons, color papers, glues, etc. that the kids usually bring home at the last day of the school year and I would pile 'em up in a box. Also, start to collect junk! Toilet paper rolls, cans, pvc pipes, sheets of felts, old shirt (for painting), hotel soaps (bear's carving), etc. In other words, be frugal and creative. Finally, set your year plan ahead of time so that you can easily set the budget for your den (something that Den Leaders do not like to do). Remember this due does not cover your outings! Make sure that your parents understand that. A lot of parents expect the Pack dues and the Den dues to cover a sleepover at the Battleship (for example) or they expect for it to cover the uniform or book. It may, but I have found a Pack that does that, because their dues would be sitting close to $100! Cheers, 1Hour

FScouter, the training flowchart is somewhat accurate for the Tomahawk District (SHAC) and this is from the Tomahawk District Web Site and not Troop 38. If it is incorrect then I will send Tomahawk folks an email about it, but it is fairly accurate since we, in the Brazos District, follow the same training outline. Blue color indicates Cub Scout. Red indicates Boy Scout (note that there are two paths, one for Committee and one for SM) and Green is indicative of Venture. Yellow indicates generic, where it is applicable to all levels. So BALOO is blue, which is solely for the CubScout's world. The link to the G2SS book is as current as scouting.org keeps it (I guess); however, you are correct on the G2SS pdf file, it is somewhat dated (circa 1998), but then again, I do believe that BSA did not (or have not) released the latest G2SS in pdf format. Instead they chose to have two online versions instead http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/index.html . The 1999 pdf version is out there, but predominately, you will find the 1998 pdf is more circulated. Even USSCOUT.ORG still has the 1999 pdf version As for Troop 400's "Committee Guide" is a good start place in case there isn't anything else to go on. These are what I found back when I first wanting to know more about BSA world and was afraid to ask. After the training classes, they become clear; however, as for the real resource that I use on a regular basis ... the G2SS (hard copy version) and the Scoutmaster handbook (and the Committee Challenge Book)! FScouter is correct, troops sometimes define the BSA ways according to their needs, but they are good starting spots if there is no where else to turn. Hence, back to my main suggestion: Get your adult leaders to your Council or District trainings! 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

David, I commend you on your effort as well. We have full sets of adults in our troop but our program needs lots of work to get to the boy-lead effort. Here is a good list of the duties of Advancement Committee (http://abc-cc.com/tomahawk/troop38/org/advancement.htm)... quoting directly from Troop 38: - Have a working knowledge of the Boy Scout advancement plans. - Help plan and conduct induction and advancement recognition ceremonies. - Train parents, guardians, and troop committee members in ways to stimulate Scout advancement. - Arrange graduation ceremonies with the Scoutmaster. - Promote the use of patrol advancement charts to record advancement in the patrol and as an incentive for advancement. - Collect patrol advancement reports at troop PLC meetings for use when ordering badges and insignia from the local council service center. - Work with the Troop Scribe to manage advancement tracking. - Promote Boys' Life magazine as an aid to advancement. - Help build or obtain advancement equipment for use in making advancement ceremonies more effective. - Promote the wearing and proper use of uniform and insignia. - Make a prompt report on the correct form to the council service center when a troop board of review is held. Secure badges and certificates. - Have a working knowledge of the Adult Boy Scout advancement process and reporting. - Help to insure that adults receive timely awards and recognition of achievements. Report to the troop committee at each meeting. For the complete "Troop Committee Guidelines" from Troop 400 in Irving, Texas, here is the URL: http://shockfamily.net/bsa/troop-committee-guidebook.htm Here is a URL for the various job description of each Committee member: http://abc-cc.com/tomahawk/troop38/org/committee.htm As for Advancement Guideline, here is the URL from USSCOUTS.ORG: http://www.usscouts.org/advance/docs/guidelines.html Here are some great resources that can get you and the adults in your troop started: http://usscouts.org/usscouts/start.asp http://www.scoutmaster.org The best resources are the training that your Council and District provide. Here is a good site that details the various adult training opportunities: http://www.abc-cc.com/Tomahawk/train_flow.htm Good Luck, 1Hour (This message has been edited by OneHour)

You are an SPL. Where are all of the adult leaders in your Troop? Committee is a major function of the adult leadership. They are there to set up the troop and make sure that all other adult leaders work for you guys, the scouts. I would suggest to get your adult leaders to get the Committee Challenge training. It explains clearly the function of the Committee in relation to the Patrol Method and a boy-lead troop. But out of curiosity, through a couple other threads that you posted, are you pulling this troop together by yourself?

Kevin, If your Council offers a training course in "Dealing with Special Needs Scout," take it. As you and your wife are, I have to deal with ADHD scouts in my Troop (3-5) and my Den (2). Please don't lower the standard; as a matter of fact, raise the expectation for the boy, ie. give him more responsibilities ... keep him busy. There is a great topic on this (ADHD) that sctmom and several others who are very well versed in the topic and can give you some insight. I found that asking the parent to help with her son is probably the best course of action. Sctmom is correct, you need to sit down and talk with the parents. I did that with mine and they were very receptive to the idea. It is not fair for other scouts in your Den if all the attention is diverted to handle the special needs scout. As for the behavior issue, this again is the Den's rule that the boy need to abide and the parents have to agree to. Ask your CM for assistance in this arena (talking to the parents, that is). Something that we as leaders need to realize, all boys are not created equally; however, they all deserve the same chance to be taught correctly and to enjoy what scouting has to offer. One of my more problematic, ADHD cub is now in boy scout. Eventhough he has his ups and downs (most the downs is during his "crash period"), we all have learned to function as a patrol with him as a great participant. 1Hour

VARCOURT ... please don't thank me. All credits should go to the Pack/Creator of the Virtual CubLeader's Handbook (http://www.geocities.com/cybercubber/) and Troop 339 who posted the information on the Web. Just as you, I'm a user, too! YIS, 1Hour