OneHour

Our boys wanted to go tubing down the Guadalupe River. The scoutmasters in the troop feel that we can not meet G2SS requirement for Safety Afloat; as a result, we advise the PLC to choose another activity. The SPL and some of the older boys resented that decision and claiming that this new group of adult leaders are out to destroy their fun. They wanted the way it was ... when they get to do whatever they want. Our previous SM and his staff basically tossed G2SS out the window! Last year when he allowed the tubing trip, he didn't even attend. One of the ASM attended. When I required that each boy needs to wear pfd's, I was met with resistance from one or two of the adults as well as their sons; however, I won that battle. As soon as we got into the water, one of the older promptly removed his pfd and that caused a chain reaction. Not only that, it was difficult to keep the boys together and have enough adults with them to satisfy Safety Afloat. Adding to my worries is the fact that there were many other people on the river, floating, drinking, cursing/swearing and making racist comment when they got drunk . It's not an ideal arena to have the boys in. First and foremost was the unsafe condition and secondly, the less than ideal environment to expose them to. Right now, I'm on the older boys "hate list" for denying them their fun. Is there any way that we can conduct tubing safely within the G2SS guideline? What have y'all done? The G2SS does not mention tubing spefically, but all Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat guidelines imply that tubing can't be done safely. No matter how we explained it, the older boys will have the "but we did not get hurt before and the river is not that deep, only knee deep (well not everywhere is like that, there are spots where it will be over a 12 years old's head). Suggestions? Thank you in advance. 1Hour

Welcome Cubmaster-Fred ... drove through Childress three weeks ago on our way to NM and CO. Great little town. Hook 'em Horns!

Our troop made regular trips to Camp Karankawa in the Bay Area District. The camp is about 40 minutes SE of Houston ( http://www.bacbsa.org/camping/tour.html ). They have a fairly decent "Fall Encampment" program that offers merit badges. As one of the older camps around here, they have your typical BSA latrine and settings. It runs 5 days before Thanksgiving. Houston also has Camp Strake that holds Winter Camp as well. Quite a large camp in the Sam Houston Area Council. It has large lakes (namely Grand Lake) and is very well equipped. I didn't like Strake when I was a boy, but that was 28 years ago. Camp Strakes has over 70 merit badges winter camp program. http://www.samhoustonbsa.org/Home/Camping/Camps4/Strake/WinterCamp/ One nice thing about camping in Houston is that the average temperature rarely goes down past 40 degrees F in the winter ... wet and cold ... yes, but snow ... neah. Barry is right. If you want the camping and seeing what this Earth has to offer as in beauty, Buffalo Trails is a good place to go. Our troop came back from there this past summer and the boys have nothing but good comments for it! 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Mine is fairly easy ... on my tombstone are the words of my sons: "Rest in peace our best friend, our Dad. Love your sons." As with Eamonn, from below (6' that is), I would like to look up and see the smiles on their faces as they recount the fun that we had ... no tears ... just smiles! 1Hour

In our troop, we follow the advice of ... get the scout to First Class and the chance of him staying in scout will be great. That's the reason why we have TFC. It is not a way to spoon feed the boy. It is a way to show them the road through the toughest year. We have TFC program so that we can provide them with an opportunity to complete their TFC requirements. It is up to them to take advantage of it. Now, the TFC program does not necessary mean an automatic sign off of the requirements. They still have to be tested and proved that they know the stuffs. Once they achieve their 1st Class ranking ... they are on their own to finish the remaining ranks. If they have the incentives then great. If they don't, oh well, we'll encourage them through SM conference or BOR or just plain talk. So far, there are 6 that are stuck in the Life gear and do we (adult leaders) care? Of course we do, but we will not get them to get their projects going. It is up to the boys (and if their parents care). Eagle advisor, we have one, but it's for a boy who has no idea on how, when, where to start. He will point the place to find the answer, but not the answer itself. He will offer advices, but not solutions. He will summon help, when the Eagle candidate has done his best to seek the resources to help with his project. Trail to First Class program ... not really a disservice. Doing the work for a scout or blindly sign off requirement ... a disservice. Hands-on assistance and doing everything for an Eagle (Eagle Preparation) ... a disservice. 1Hour

Just in case some of us older folks need a dictionary of modern lingo used by the youngin' try... http://www.thesource4ym.com/teenlingo/index.asp It reminds me of a recent commercial where the father sat down and told his son to clean up his room using the teen lingo. Hilarious! ... so ... in their world and language ... Word, OGE. My bad. You're phat! easy & peace out, 1Hour (This message has been edited by OneHour)

Isn't the current lingo for "cool" is "sweet" ... at least that's what I'm hearing from my boys (even the 4 years old).

We have somewhat of a prelim review of the DVD on the thread: Follow Me Boys out on DVD!!. I have seen that DVD three times already, once with my sons. They got turned off at first because it was in b&w, but my oldest enjoyed it the rest of the way. I'm contemplating on showing it at one of the troop's lock-ins as the movie matinee. It still brings tears to my eyes. The great thing about DVD is that I don't have to worry about it stretches on me! 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Dutch ovens come in different sizes and capacities: Size Capacity Persons Served 5" 1 pint 1-2 8" 2 quarts 2-4 10" 4 quarts 4-7 12" 6 quarts 12-14 12" deep 8 quarts 16-20 14" 8 quarts 16-20 14" deep 10 quarts 22-28 16" 12 quarts 22-28 (ref: Byron Bills' http://papadutch.home.comcast.net/dutch-oven-intro.htm#Select )

Fscouter and Eamonn ... I agree with you completely. The basics should be taught. I guess that our Roundtable could use some changes to include the supplemental stuffs. When I was the one who sit out there, I knew and was practicing most of what the syllabus provided, so the training session was a waste of time. I wished at that time that I could find out what other CMs were doing differently or where they get the resources (this was during POW WOW).

margo12 ... I have been on both sides of the fence, a trainer and a student. From the trainer perspective, I would say cover all of the BSA ways of being a cubmaster, but add on there the "real-life" experiences and the hows-to (examples)while you are presenting these sections. Remember, most (I would say 80%) of your class have already been in the position anywhere from 1 month to 3 months (sometimes more). They are there to: 1)satisfy the requirement of being a trained leaders (these will be your critics) and 2) looking for advices on how to do it better or differently. Rarely, will you find someone who is there just becasue he/she is inspired to be a cubmaster, but you'll find them, too. Provide a lot of information (on CDs preferably) like songs, skits, plan for pinewood derby, raingutter regatta, etc that you or others in your District have successfully conducted and would like to share. Include Internet resources on paper or CD where these folks can find things. Bring in guest speakers (ex-CM) to share what they did that went so great and how they did that. I go a lot of feedback such as ... "this is a waste of time, I already knew that. I just want to know what else do people do at other Packs." "I'm totally lost. How do I conduct a Pack meeting? How do I make it fun?" etc.... From a student point-of-view, when I sat there looking for answers, I wished that the class would have: 1) been divided into experience CM and in-experience CM and 2) more discussion time so that I can learn from other experienced CM. Good Luck 1Hour

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2704878 Made me proud to be an American. I would have done the same and I'm sure that you (scouts and Scouters) would not have hesitated! 1Hour ******************************************* Soldiers get a first-class gift A generous man starts a trend of trading seats with war-weary troops By REBECCA ANN MARKWAY Knight Ridder Tribune News WASHINGTON - A group of American soldiers returning from Iraq got ticket upgrades on an American Airlines flight last month, but not from the airline. A first-class passenger on American Airlines Flight 866 from Atlanta to Chicago on June 29 started a "domino effect" in first class when he decided to give up his seat to a soldier, according to American Airlines spokeswoman Jacquie Young. The man, whom the airline declined to identify, noticed the group of soldiers in the boarding area. As he boarded the plane, he asked the flight attendant if he could give up his first-class seat to one of them. The flight attendant shrugged him off and went about boarding passengers, Young said. When the first soldier boarded the plane, the man asked, "Hey, soldier, where are you sitting?" Young said. When the soldier replied that he was sitting in seat 22E, the first-class passenger said, "No, you're sitting here," and he gave him his seat. As the 11 other soldiers boarded the plane, other first-class passengers surrendered their seats, too. (This message has been edited by OneHour)

I would say that this is the best web site in our troop (have to be humble about it)! One of our scouts puts this together. I look over his shoulder from time to time to make sure that the contents are proper. We are very proud of his work! http://troops.scouter.com/tx/bsatx38/ (This message has been edited by OneHour)

Not yet in our troop and would love to, but here is a link that I found useful: http://www.geocaching.com/ Please let me know what and how yours went. 1Hour

As a youth, I joined a troop in 1977, left right before I got to 1st Class. As an adult, I joined in the fun when my oldest was a tiger cub 6 years ago. Became his Tiger Partner and Den Leader, because the Den Leader at that time was letting the Den fall apart. Became Cubmaster for 132 boys for two years because no one else wanted the job while serving as my son's Den Leader and Webelos Den Leader. Moved on with my oldest to Boy Scout serving as ASM. I'm still serving as my 2nd son's Webelos Den Leader and when my 2nd moves on to boyscout in 1.5 year, that's when my cubscouting tenure will reset to Tiger Cub with my 3rd son! Also serve on the District Training team for Cub and Boy Scout while being on the District selection committee. ... and yes ... I was suckered by the line "it only takes 1 hour a week!" 1Hour

As a youth, I joined a troop in 1977, left right before I got to 1st Class. As an adult, I joined in the fun when my oldest was a tiger cub 6 years ago. Became his Tiger Partner and Den Leader

SR540Beaver is correct. Alps Mountaineering does provide 45% standard discount and if you buy it in bulk, they'll get you to 55% discount. Coleman has a non-profit discount pricing as well http://www.coleman.com/coleman/promotion/youth_camping2.asp . Our troop bought the Coleman Sundome 3-man tent http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=9260P707&categoryid=11010 for about $40 a piece and they work wonderfully for the past 6 years. We continue to purchase new Coleman as needed. The Coleman Sundome can take a lot of beating from the boys. 1Hour

Nothing smaller than 12" dutch oven. 14" would be the preferred for feed 20 people. 10" is best used for small cobbler. If you want 10", then you might want to cook several batches. With the 12", I placed 15 pieces of chicken in there without any room left. Personally, I have one 10", one 12", and one 14". I usually use the 12" and 14" for main meals and 10" for the cobbler. Our troop has six 10" ovens for the patrols, but then they are feeding only 5-7 boys at a time. Don't forget to buy the lid lifter. I prefer the Mair Tool Lid Lifter (http://www.kamperskettle.com/content/misc.htm ). This lid lifter will allow you to shake loose the coals and dust. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Pete, Did you prime the new mantles? Hold the lighter or match under the newly installed mantles (with the valve off) and burn the new mantles evenly. Each mantle will burn completely after 2-3 minutes and will turn gray to white color. Don't touch the mantles after that. They are extremely hot and they will fall apart. The way that you described with flame and yellow/red sooty flames (probably emits black smoke as well) and taking the mantles off intact sounds as if you did not prime the new mantles. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

My question is why the troop pays for the dad to go? Did you need an extra adult or do you have enough without the gentleman? Is the boy a "special need" scout who requires constant care of his father? The way that it seems, the boy is perfectly fine! If the boy is a "special need" scout who requires constant care of his dad, then I would agree that the Committee did the right thing to pay for both dad and son. If he is not a "special need" scout, then paying for the boy is more than generous. If you don't have enough adult, then there must have a list of tasks that need to be done and those should have been communicated to the guy before you all left for the camp (by the SM or the outing adult leader). Before each summer camp, we sit the boys and their parents down and gave them an faq of do's and don'ts and what to expect. The accompanying adults know exactly what is needed to be done. Some of our adults went to get trained (BSA lifeguard, safe swim, safety afloat, trek safely, etc.) From March to June, the boy and his dad should have been exposed to (and explained) the workings of the troop, including campouts, responsibilities of boys and adults, etc. It seems to me that this boy and his dad went without much knowledge of summer camp, boy scout process (merit badge, advancement, etc.) and troop protocol. On the other hand, the dad seems to be non-involvement type. If I were he and not knowing the protocol or process, I would have asked how I could help. Now, I would ask the SPL to go through the patrol method and the different troop's processes/protocols with the new scout and ask the SM to have a talk with the dad about the protocol within the troop. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Gags ... did you order it with their Pro-purchase (look at www.scoutdirect.com )? That's 60% off or $60 for the pack that you just ordered. The shoulder straps on my pack is fairly comfortable. The belt strap is more important since fit tightly, it will reduce the load off you shoulders. I had an old Kelty external (about 3000 cu in). Still very good. The external makes it easier to strap tents, sleeping bags, or mattress. I still can strap my tent on to my internal pack. Now, about what they say about internal ... under the hot condition (like in Texas), it does not allow your back to breath like an external frame can, but for me the internal pack fits my body a whole better and the load is better centered for me. Of course, 65 lbs is not filling the 5500 cu in with every cracks and crevices that it has! One fellow ASM packed his 5000 to the hilt and his weighed in a nice 75 lbs ... closer to 80 (I think)! I (and everyone) carried 4 quarts of water enough to cook with the first night. The next morning, the ASMs took turn to haul in four 5-gallons containers of water. Believe me ... it's heavy after the initial mile! We tagged team at the 1.5 mile mark with another set of adults/boys to carry the remaining 1 mile! Water is valuable and heavy on a backpacking trip! As with hiking shoes, you should try it out fully pack to see if it fits you. The Nighthawk pack fits me well, even for a small stature guy like me (5' 9" ... 165 lbs). So far the pack holds up very well and have a lot of pockets. One feature that I like is the builtin rain cover! No complaint from me ... considered that I paid only $68 for it! As I have said ... I'm not advertising for them ... it just that this guy at Alps Mountaineering is doing a very nice thing for scouting by giving 60% discount to the Scoutmaster and 40% discount to the troop. I bought 5500 cu in to make sure that I will have one that I can use on a Philmont trip one of these days. Of course you're correct, the adults tend to carry a little more to cover for mishaps, food, clothes, or emergencies, but soon you will learn as I do ... your "older" body will not allow you to look after everyone! 1Hour

I have a 5500 cu in internal pack (the Night Hawk), bought it from Alps Mountaineering at 60% scout discount (http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/NightHawk.htm ). That's a lot of space for a 2 night backpacking trip! What went in there? For a winter (2 days 2 nights) backpacking trip this past January: 1 sleeping bag, 1 wool blanket, 2 sets of clothes, 1 t-shirt, 1 butane canister, 1 Primus Alpine powercook stove, 1 2qt. aluminum pot, 1 mess kit, 1 set of utensils, 3 pairs of wool socks, 2 pairs of liners, 2 sets of long johns, 1 pair of gloves, 1 wool hat, 1 light jacket, 1 1-quart plexan bottle, 1 small first aid kit, 1 toiletry bag, 2-3 small emptied bags (for trash), 1/4 roll of toilet paper, 1 lighter, 1 water treatement bottle, 1 small sunscreen bottle, 1 small towel, 1 compass, 1 map, 1 book , 1 pencil, 1 headlamp, 2 AAA batteries as spare, 1 50 ft. rope, 1 scout handbook, several packages of "foot warmers" and a cup. Outside of the pack, I attached my tent and mattress. The pack that I bought has a detachable top to serve as a fanny pack. I used it to store my food supplies: 4 packs of ramen noodles (2 went to a boy who had a racoon dinned on his food supply), 3 bagels (2 for breakfast and 1 for spare ... and it was used!), 2 small packs of jelly (the type that McD gives out with the "big breakfast," 2 instant meal packs, several small bags of trail mix, 1 small can of devil ham, 2 slices of bread in a plastic "bread case", a small bag of that has instant coffee bags, tea, sugar, cream, ketchup, mayo, salt and pepper, 1 very small ziploc sandwich bag of gatorade, and 2 small tangerine cups. This was very handy where I detached the fanny bag and hanged it high on the nearest tree to avoid critters. Total weight of the pack ... around 65 lbs. I could reduce the weight, but that were all the essentials that I needed for a 25 degrees weather. Warm weather packpacking would be a little lighter. But be forewarned, the larger the pack the more you will try to stuff into it and so if you were to do that, you should have a talk with you back first, then your leg, and then your body ... in that order ! I decided to buy the 5500 cu. in. with my eyes towards more and longer backpacking trips with Philmont in the scope. That pack costs me around $80. It held up fairly good and the straps system took some of the loads off my shoulder. I like their Red Tails, but it was back-ordered so I had to choose the Night Hawk. For the price, I couldn't complain (http://www.scoutdirect.com). btw, I'm not advertising for them. It's just a good deal for me and I'm quite happy with the pack and tent that I bought from them. For my son, I bought him the Kelty Yukon Large Youth External Pack $80 (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=53240&memberId=12500226 ) . It has 3500 cu. in and he was perfectly happy with it. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

ScouterPaul, it is a very neat little tent. When my youngest hits the backpacking age (he's 5 right now), I'll probably look into this . My three boys and I will contemplate on some longer backpacking trips. Right now, my oldest and I are starting to break into this backpacking experience and are enjoying it thoroughly (minus the backache )! Thanks, 1Hour

Our Resident Camp offers programs for Wolf through Webelos. Sam Houston Area Council got a new camp recently ... Bovay Scout Ranch. The only minor problem is that it can get quite hot in the middle of summer! My son and I went there three years ago and we (as well as the rest of the camp it seems) spent most of our free time in the pool. Our Council camp has a variety number of "fun activities." The cub doesn't earn any activity badge nor belt loop (when we were there); however, the boys would have lots of fun though! The camp has BMX bike track, bb gun range, archery range, a mine to mine gold, paddle wheel boat, simulated archaeological diggs, etc. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

ScouterPaul, That's one 'purdy neat' tent, at 24 oz and 42" height ... that's going light weight! All that tarp for $180 ... I guess there is a price to pay for going lightweight! 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)