OneHour

... once a year and prior to Summer Camp in our troop (usually in May which would catch all entering Webelos). It is mandatory whether you are going to Summer Camp or not or whether you have seen it or not. We also recommend the parents to be there as well. We follow G2SS prescribe methodology.(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Quit after 2nd Class. Didn't have the money to continue. Both of my parents worked day and night to support 6 kids. We were barely settled in the States for less than three years. It was not fair to my folks for me to continue an activity that took resources away from the family, eventhough,I worked hard to pay for my ways to camps, selling candies, etc. My dad didn't mind at the time, but I did. Although, I did wish that he had time to spend with my brother and I. Looking back, my parents did a darn good job providing for 6 kids through some of the toughest times in our lives. Man ... the kids nowadays have it great and have everything! All they have to do is to take advantage of it! It's too bad that a lot of them take these gifts for granted.

... hence my elusive favorite scouting position! But if I do have other adults keeping an eye on the boys, you bet ya that I'm heading straight for my favorite scouting position to catch a z or two!

"What was your favorite scouting position?" Sleeping on my lounge chair at a campout and/or reading a good book! (This message has been edited by OneHour)

My vote is to go with the school for the chartering. The school is in the best position to provide the facility that you need. Work with your DE to sell it to the principal and the school. We did and it is working out well. Self-charter (ie. privately by parents will leave you in a bind once the "chartering" parents have left the Pack). At the same time checking with the school, look into the School District to see their policy on chartering a unit. Our District Superintendent is very opened to the idea for his schools to charter a BSA unit; as a result, our principal does not have a problem with the support of the school district. We have a troop near by that is chartered by one of the fathers business (self owned). It is on the brink of folding because the boy is considering dropping scouting. Good Luck, 1Hour

I ran across this question when I was a cubmaster a couple of years back. It depends on how the chartering was sold to the PTA or the organization that is being sought as the charter organization (CO). If it is not presented properly, the word "liability" can turn an organization away from the charter. According to BSA (http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-507.html): "Schools and community and religious organizations, with the help of the BSA, organize Cub Scout packs, Boy Scout troops, Varsity Scout teams, Venturing crews, and Sea Scout ships for boys and young men and women. They manage these units and control the program of activities to support the goals and objectives of the chartered organizations. When community organizations establish a new unit, they must take these two important actions to ensure a quality Scouting program: 1. Selecting leadership. The head of the chartered organization appoints a chartered organization representative to provide leadership in the selection of a committee of adults that will provide overall supervision for the unit's program. The committee selects the adult unit leaders who will work with the youth. The chartered organization representative is also a voting member of the local council and may serve as a member of the district committee. 2. Providing a meeting place and promoting a good program. The chartered organization arranges for adequate meeting facilities for the unit and promotes through its committee the full use of the program, including outdoor experiences, advancement, recognitions, and, in particular, Scouting's values." This may not seem to be a lot, but if one steps back and think about it, the CO's responsibility to the Pack, Troop, or Crew is large. The act of being a CO is not as simple as most of organizations think it is. It is a hands-on development of the Pack, Troop, or Crew. The COR actively participate in the Pack, Troop, or Crew, something that a lot of the PTA folks will not take on while providing the meeting place may spell out liability to others. The involvement, on the other hand, varies with each CO and COR. Some take a very active role to the point of being in the way, while other takes on the laisez-faire role and is oblivious to what is going on in the unit (which is not good, since to a certain point, the CO is liable for what the unit does). We had to assure to the principal of the Elementary that chartered us that we will work with her with all aspects of the Pack's activitiees that may involve the school and its liability and before she can sign our re-charter. To me your PTA may have not been informed properly of the CO and COR's responsibility. My suggestion is to work with your DE (not your Unit Commissioner) to get the CO (PTA) to understand its function and responsibility without scaring them away. The DE may have a canned methodology of selling the chartering package. He/she can also verify to see if indeed your unit is properly chartered at the Council level. http://www.scouting.org/relationships/04-113/ Good Luck 1Hour

Let's see, 9.5, 7, 5, 8, 2, 7, 4, 9, 1, 1, 9.9, 9.8, 3, 8, 5, 9, 3, 9, 2, ... There are peaks and valleys as I journey down this scouting trail with my sons. As with others, there are far more peaks than valleys, but when there are deep crossings to pass, there are always a scouting, helping hand to help me through (this Forum is included). When there are down days in scouting (ie. dealing with parents and politics), there are always the snipets of good feelings such as during the scoutmaster conference, a scout says to you," By the way, I just want to you to know, you're the nicest and funniest man that I know!" He ends it with a smile. That, my friends, is where the 10 comes in! That's where the 1 Hour/a Week worths every cent. YIS, 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

NewCubDad, been in your shoes before ... seven years ago. I got the "newbie" frustration which resulted in my becoming the Den Leader, Cubmaster, Committee Chair, Webelos Den Leader and now an Assistant Scoutmaster. I learned the BSA ways as much as I can. I got me some help from the parents in the den & I implemented what I learned and what I think is fun at the Den level first. After I learned the rope, I took on the making a difference at the Pack level. When it comes to volunteering, there will always be challenges. As long as you stay your course, others will jump on the bandwagon. If you're not careful, you might get hooked, too! Hang tight and have fun (with your son and his four new friends). 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

My fellow scoutmasters and I were very proud of our newly elected SPL. He is a young life scout about 14 years old, elected last night to be the troop new SPL. This young man already has a plan on how to run this troop! (This is a break-through that we adult leaders were looking for!). He promptly chose his staffs, 2 ASPLs. Another two young life scouts who (in our opinions) are very diligent scouts. During his announcement of his staffs. Two older scouts wanted know why he didn't chose some of the older scouts. This young man promptly replied, "I wanted someone who is here at all the troop meetings and campouts to help me." All of the scoutmasters almost fell over! Inside of each one of us, one can tell that we were applauding his answer. This has been a problem with our troop. The "older boys" wanted to take on the leadership, but did not want to do the work. They rarely shows up to campouts which resulting in a different SPL for each campout. They missed a lot of the troop meetings and when they do come, they act as if they are the big brothers and other boys in the troop should pay homage to them. We had several conversation with them (scoutmaster conferences, coaching, you name it). They have their own "click" and one of them even told me that the younger boys are trying to get themselves into their patrol because of what its status. With this young man and his staff, this is a good start for the "new" patrol method in our troop. I'm excited! 1Hour

Ever since we got our trailer stolen, we have been packing 'em in to every moving vehicle that we can muster as we have done it before the trailer. This means that every parent has to participate if needed to be, whether driving them there or picking them up, or both. No one seems to object so far. Thankfully, we have 1 pickup left in our inventory to haul the big items, ie. chuck boxes and canopies. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Now as for the other details ... - Find out who your DE (Distric Executive) is and work with him/her to get the paperwork in order. - Get a Unit Commissioner to work with you in recruiting the folks that Bob White has pointed out. - Don't forget to work with your CO and its COR on obtaining a place to meet and the meeting time. - ... all the while, familiarize yourself with the G2SS (Guide to Safe Scouting) and take the fast start and other training that your District may be holding right now. - Work to get some sort of seed money for the pack to get started (for making copies of the recruiting flyer ... district should have extras for you, making copies of your new Pack faq if you plan to have one, having materials for your first/second Pack meeting ... crafts, games, training, etc.) until you all can get to the first fund-raiser going(currently, popcorn is the fundraiser in most places). - Attend your Council's Pow-Wow training with your leaders. This is where you get all the great trainings and then some. Bob White pointed out all of the essential books, program helps, and others that are great starts for everyone in the new Pack. - Get all of your ducks in a line and then have your "rally night" at the school, church or where ever you are designated or chosen to recruit. - Once your Pack starts up, then get the rest of your recruits to training. - Collect information and get up to speed on pinewood derby (ie. from a neighboring Pack). - Start your first committee meeting 3-4 weeks prior to the 1st Pack meeting to plan. If you have time, plan the whole year out or at least 2 Pack meetings in advance. Plan your budget/fundraiser. - Have your Pack meeting. Don't forget to have plan A and plan B and share them with your CC and Assistant Cubmaster. - Get a second fundraiser going to obtain a pinewood derby track - Attend Scouting University to get some more training! - Plan for the Blue and Gold Banquet in February - Plan for a spring Pack campout. - Get your leaders to get training for next year (ie. tiger leaders to cubscout leaders; cubscout leaders to webelos; adding assistant cubmaster; adding committee members; train all of your parents on youth protection if not already done so ... namely for summer day camp. - Plan for raingutter regatta in late Spring - Plan for graduation party (May?) - Plan for summer activities (if not already done so) - Plan for attending District's summer day camp. - Plan for next year anual calendar/budget (July time frame). - Start your second fun-filled season as a Pack! It's really easy when you have boatload of helps. Getting the boatload of help is the tricky part! Also, there is one common recurring point ... training. Good luck, 1Hour pssst: by the way, it only takes one hour a week!(This message has been edited by OneHour)

In our Pack, if a boy sold $x of popcorn or scout fair ticket, his recharter is paid for (including Pack dues)for the year. So if your Pack has a fundraiser or two and sufficient funding, you could go ahead and pay the boy's pack due and set a minimun fundraiser that he has to attain in order to pay the Pack back. Historically, I have paid for den dues, sleepover, lunches, dinners for a few of the boys in our Pack. I see them as no different than my own sons, but then that's just I. I am by no means wealthy, but to make a boy happy, it's worth a few $ out of my own pocket. Another instance where I asked for donations from several of the Den leaders to have enough for a boy to purchase his cub shirt, but as Eaglefoot pointed it, if the parents do have the means to pay for it, then I usually approach the parents. My usual explanation to them is that as in any team (baseball, soccer, etc) a cub scout's dues pay for his awards and all the logistic of running the cub scouting team. Usually, they get the hint. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

I had a similar situation in our Den 2 years ago. A cub decided that he wants to play baseball instead of cub scout. He wants to quit. He and his dad signed up and paid to go to the USS Lexington sleepover. I had no problem with the young man wanting to pursue his sport. I asked them not to withdraw from the trip since it will be a waste of money (we were at a point where refund was not an option). The day came and the boy/his father attended the sleepover. After that event, the young man changed his mind again and decided to stay in cub scout. He is currently a Star scout in our troop. Let them attend since they are still registered to both the Pack and National. Who knows, if the trip is fun enough, the boy and his parents will change their minds. I don't think that the boys wear the "quitting badge" more proudly. If the chorus of "how come Mickey is here, he's not a CS anymore" chimes, then I would respond it with "Mickey is still a cub scout with our Pack until next year. He is still welcome at any time to join us again." Good luck, 1Hour

msnowman ... I'll be willing to trade a Pack of 102 boys for a Pack of 24 any day! May be being in Boy Scout (troop of 40 boys) has spoiled me. Congrats.

We pulled in 40 boys two weeks ago. 3 new tiger dens, 1 new wolf den, and 8 new Webelos 1s and 2s. We did enjoy a brief moment when our Pack reached the all time low of 62 boys. We are now back to 102! Oh, boy! 1Hour

Two years ago, our pack bought the aluminum track from Best Track (http://www.besttrack.com/) 6 lanes, 35', for about $1400 (includes timer, gates, software, stop tracks, and shipping). We have been fairly happy with it. The aluminum track is fast. To win first overall in our Pack, it went from an average time of 5.45 seconds on the wooden track to 3.86 seconds on the aluminum. The setting was easy after the initial assembly. Right after we bought ours, they came out with gentler curve sections that is less harsh on the cars. Our curves popped some of back-heavy cars. There are several of previous threads on pwd. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=17904 http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=20589 http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=51438 I'm not sure if aluminum is heavier to ship. Anyway, our Pack has been very happy with our aluminum track. 1Hour

eaglewing2002, Don't take it to heart. I am well "blackened" from so many burned out that I'm do know what it means any more, but I know for sure about one thing, after seeing my sons enjoying scouting, nothing that caused my burned outs matters any more. As Stephen Covey puts it ... we should spend our time and energy within our Circle of Influence. I don't care what anyone else may say, working with volunteers and parents is not an easy task. Keep smiling and great scouting journey to you. 1Hour

Troop Committee, we are very fortunate to have a great group of parents: We have: 0) COR (1) 1) Committee Chair (1) - he runs the Committee meetings as well as the committee and is doing a very good job 2) Advancement Chair (1) - he maintains the advancement record, COH, BOR, and presents mb opportunities to the troop. 3) Secretary (1) - records the minutes of the committee meetings and other transactions 4) Outdoor Event Chair (1) (planning the logistics, ie. transportation, tour permits, etc.) 5) Indoor Event Chair (1) (same as OEC) 6) Treasurer (1) - keeps up with our piggy 7) Health and Safety (2 - husband and wife tag team!) - maintain our health forms (up to date) and make sure that each car is equipped with a health book that contains everything! 8) Recruiting/ Membership Chair (2) - as the title states. 9) BOR (we have three sets of parents who rotate each month for BOR, arranged by our AC) (4 + 5 of the current committee officers) 10) Training - me (making sure that our adults are trained, arranged JLT, etc.) 11)future positions to be filled - Fundraiser Chair(s) Scoutmasters: 0) SM (1) 1) ASM for new scout patrol (1) - advises new scout patrol 2) ASM for TFC (3) - advise the TFC scouts 3) ASM for Trail to Eagle (2) - advise TE scouts 4) ASM for High Adventures (1-3) depends on or if they show up! There is a definite division of labor! Now, all that we have to do is to get the boys to lead themselves, then we'll be a little closer to Scouting Utopia! 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

kenk's thread is a great one to teach the boys Hug a Tree (This message has been edited by OneHour)

I need ideas on scout account for various fundraising, eg. popcorn, scout fair ticket sales, planting flags on holidays, etc. What % of the proceeds goes to the scout? How is the account managed? etc. Thank you in advance. 1Hour

Fuzzy ... amen to that

One thing that I am jealous of is the fact that if I had that kind of money then my wife and I would have stayed home and spend a lot of time as a family doing everything that we have always wanted to do. (Snapping out of dream world and back to reality) Fortunately, we both have to work full time and have great jobs that allow us to spend a lot of time with the boys alternately, but a lot of time nevertheless. For that, I wouldn't trade anything in the world for it. 1Hour (and counting)

1. Bowline 2. Clove Hitch 3. Two 1/2 Hiches 4. Figure 8 5. Alpine Butterfly 6. Trucker's Hitch (along with the Figure 8 or Alpine Butterfly) 7. Blood Knot/Half Blood 8. Sheet Bend 9. Square Knot 10. Double Fisherman's (even Fisherman would work) 11. Taut Line Hitch 12. Either the Monkey's Fist or Turk's Head (to keep 'em busy and interested in knots) Of course these should accompany the full compliments of lashings!

"I think the unit is trying to build a dollhouse using plans for a skyscraper. This is just a float trip in innertubes on a gentle current right? I think we can pretty well pass on the need for three hours of operational instructions." Not really. The plan is the same no matter how you look at it. Yes, the 3 hours of operational instructions are not needed; however, float plan and emergency plan are still required. For the most part, it will be gentle current. "Your problem seems to be the inability of the unit leader or event leader to express the importance of the buddy system and pfds." It's not the inability of our current leaders to express the importance of the buddy system and pfds, but it's living down the years of side-stepping and blantant disregard of the safety guidelines by previous adult leaders. "You should absolutely not go on this trip, or any other for that matter, until the leadership has the ability to lead and the scouts have the ability to understand and obey safety rules." Exactly what I am trying to do ... to have a sensible discussion with the scouts about safety and the rules with regards them. "Planning also seems to be a problem in the unit. If two adults or a lifeguard and buddy go over the falls first. They set a point for the others to gather at, until the group has reformed, or, spotters can be set up along the course to track group as they pass." Great suggestion and yes, planning is not this troop forte'. "So OneHour take comfort in the fact that you have not denied anyone their fun, by refusing to display the level of responsibility needed to do the activity they have ruined it for themselves and have only themselves to blame." I am trying. It's difficult to talk to a 13 years old SPL (that's another issue) who cries as he talks to you because it has been bothering him and he felt very strongly about it. I am a sucker for tears especially coming from a kid, but I am holding steady on my conviction. I have told him to talk to his staff to see if they can come up with the plans that would satisfy me and the adult leaders that address our various concerns, then and only then we will go. Thanks, 1Hour

Eamonn ... snow tubing ... highly unlikely in SE Texas! BW ... welcome back. Yes, some of the scoutmasters feel that the buddy system as well as the boat buddy system can't be maintained. Only until this past Summer did we get two of our adults to attain BSA lifeguard status. Knowing some of our olders boys, some of them will get off their tube to swim ... now we have just violated the Safe Swim Defense of marking off Safe Area. Look out is almost impossible after the first "waterfall." The boys will be split up for sure. Last year, when we did this ... we could not find two of the boys until much later. Our BSA lifeguard went way ahead of everyone. The river was crowded with college kids (some were clearly drunk), locals, and visitors. There was no float plan. Water clarity is an issue ... can't really see clearly past 3 ft. These are the problems that we don't think that we can accomplish: "Qualified Supervision All activity afloat must be supervised by a mature and conscientious adult age 21 or older who understands and knowingly accepts responsibility for the well-being and safety of the children in his or her care, who is experienced and qualified in the particular watercraft skills and equipment involved in the activity, and who is committed to compliance with the nine points of BSA Safety Afloat. One such supervisor is required for each ten people, with a minimum of two adults for any one group. At least one supervisor must be age 21 or older, and the remaining supervisors must be age 18 or older. All supervisors must complete BSA Safety Afloat and Safe Swim Defense training, and rescue training for the type of watercraft to be used in the activity, and at least one must be certified in CPR. It is strongly recommended that all units have at least one adult or older youth member currently certified as a BSA Lifeguard to assist in the planning and conduct of all activity afloat." When the boys are split up, there is no way we can maintain a constant eye on them. Solution get a lot more help (reality ... fat chance). The river where they want to go is classified as a Class 2 rapid (granted in some areas, but once the group hit those one or two spots ... chances of group or buddies stay together are hard). "Physical Fitness" - no problems ... we keep are fairly updated forms. "Swimming Ability" Last year, our SM allowed that trip to happen without testing everyone and for those who tested, he passed some of the marginal ones as "swimmers!" This year, we know exactly who is capable of what. "Personal Flotation Equipment" - no problems ... we can mandate it. "Buddy System All activity afloat must adhere to the principles of the buddy system. The buddy system assures that for every person involved in aquatics activity, at least one other person is always aware of his or her situation and prepared to lend assistance immediately when needed. Not only does every individual have a buddy, but every craft should have a "buddy boat" when on the water." Our main concerns ... as pointed out previously. "Skill Proficiency All persons participating in activity afloat must be trained and experienced in watercraft handling skills, safety, and emergency procedures. For unit activity on white water, all participants must complete special training by a BSA Aquatics Instructor or qualified whitewater specialist. Powerboat operators must be able to meet requirements for the Motorboating merit badge or equivalent. Except for whitewater and powerboat operation as noted above, either a minimum of three hours' training and supervised practice or meeting requirements for "basic handling tests" is required for all float trips or open-water excursions using unpowered craft. Motorized personal watercraft, such as the Jet Ski? and SeaDoo?, are not authorized for use in Scouting aquatics, and their use should not be permitted in or near BSA program areas. For Cub Scouts: Canoeing, rowboating, and rafting for Cub Scouts (including Webelos Scouts) is to be limited to council/district events on flat water ponds or controlled lake areas free of powerboats and sailboats. Prior to recreational canoeing, Cub Scouts are to be instructed in basic handling skills and safety practices." Major concerns ... if we were to allow this tubing trip, then an emergency plan will have to be developed, communicated, and trained the boys on it. Something that we are not that experienced ... yet. "Planning Float Plan. Know exactly where the unit will put in, where the unit will pull out, and precisely what course will be followed. Determine all stopover points in advance. Estimate travel time with ample margins to avoid traveling under time pressures. Obtain accurate and current maps and information on the waterway to be traveled, and discuss the course with others who have made the trip under similar seasonal conditions. (Preferably, an adult member of the group should run the course before the unit trip.) Local Rules. Determine which state and local laws or regulations are applicable. If private property is to be used or crossed, obtain written permission from the owners. All such rules must be strictly observed. Notification. The float plan must be filed with the parents of participants and a member of the unit committee. For any activity using canoes on running water, the float plan must be filed with the local council service center. Notify appropriate authorities, such as Coast Guard, state police, or park personnel, when their jurisdiction is involved. When the unit returns from this activity, persons given the float plan should be so advised. Weather. Check the weather forecast just before setting out, know and understand the seasonal weather pattern for the region, and keep an alert "weather eye." Imminent rough weather should bring all ashore immediately. Contingencies. Planning must anticipate possible emergencies or other circumstances that could force a change in the original plan. Identify and consider all such circumstances in advance so that appropriate contingency plans can be developed. For Cub Scouts: Cub Scout canoeing and rafting does not include "trips" or "expeditions" and is not to be conducted on running water (i.e., rivers or streams); therefore, some procedures are inapplicable. Suitable weather requires clear skies, no appreciable wind, and warm air and water." Major concerns, but it is do-able. "Equipment" - no concerns "Discipline All participants should know, understand, and respect the rules and procedures for safe unit activity afloat. The applicable rules should be presented and learned prior to the outing, and should be reviewed for all participants at the water?s edge just before the activity begins. When Scouts know and understand the reasons for the rules, they will observe them. When fairly and impartially applied, rules do not interfere with the fun. Rules for safety, plus common sense and good judgment, keep the fun from being interrupted by tragedy.. " Major problems - some of our older boys are independent and would like to remain as such. Their fathers support this since they are part of the previous leadership corp. These are the boys who would disregard safety, rules, and advices. For example, we went on a backpacking trip. The slowest person sets the pace ... not for these boys. On the same trip, the troop decided to venture into the cave. They took off ahead and we later found out that they came off the steep side of the mountain. Yes, their fathers were with them and allowed it (or rather lost them in the cave). The problem is that they tend to horse around and set the examples that the younger boys (which make up about 2/3 of the troop) want to follow. This is a problem. One other problem that is not part of G2SS ... the drunks on the river. Last year ... as I busily keeping an eye everyboy ... I can't help but to hear the obscenities that came out of these kids mouths. Secondly, the racist remarks that came out of one group really bothered me. Some of the boys that I was with thought it was funny, but I didn't! scoutldr ... I try to point out the various G2SS guidelines to the adults as well as the junior leaders. Together, we try to interpret these guidelines. You are correct. Had the adult leaders and the junior leaders address all of the G2SS concerns, then there wouldn't even be a question. For me, it's not the problem of losing my house or livelyhood, because, as I understand it if I follow everything that BSA prescribed, then BSA will support me (a fact that I'm not 100% relying on). More importantly, it's losing a boy or having him seriously injured and having to face his parents with the news! Thanks. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)