OneHour

dkriss, hence the education of the den leader of the roles and responsibilities of the Den Chief as well as the interaction that is needed and expected from the Den Leader to the Den Chief. FScouter, the convenience factor may not be relevant to the mission and aims of Scouting, but it does make a difference whether or not a boy stays in scout or not. Take my family for example, we don't have the luxury of the ability to live off my income alone. Both of us work and sometimes we trade off as to when either of us can stay and work late while the other tends to the kids scouting, soccer, swimming, etc. With three boys, you bet that we will "pool" them up whenever we can! If scouting were to tell me that you can't bring anyone else but your cub or your scout to the den/troop meeting ... so choose, we'll choose for them to stay home to where I could do the same job of teaching them the ideals, but I get to keep an eye on all three of them. In our Pack and Troop there are a lot of single parent with more than 1 child. So, you bet ya convenience is a factor. Interacting with adults doesn't require the boy to without his parents. My sons interact with the adults in the troop and in the den/pack enough to get the aims of scouting across. I would agree with you whole heartedly if I were to have only one child. I apologize for this. This issue has twirked me the wrongest way recently. The swim team that my sons were in last two years decided to hold their swim practices in the mornings in the summer. This pretty much locks my boys and several of their friends out of the only sport that they love. It was done because a stay-at-home mom got electected to the director position decided that it is the way that other parents and swimmers wanted! The kicker? There is a second swim team in the neighborhood that practice in the morning! Ugggghhhh! 1Hour

Let's spin off from what EagleInKY started. What have you done (as a scouter or scout) to show that you are living the Scout Oath and Law? Don't be modest. Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind: I'll start off. Last night, leaving from the mall, as I was pulling out from the parking lot, I saw a man struggling to get the buffer machine on to his pickup. Without thinking, I stopped my car and asked if I could be any assistance. He smiled and said, "Yes, thank you." It was quite heavy even for the both of us, but we got it on to his truck. Both of us got dirty with the grease from the buffer machine. He said in broken English, "thank you very much." I smiled and returned to my car. Later that night, my wife told me that in the car my middle son said proudly,"Yup, that's Dad, always the scout!" My oldest chimmed in, "Yeah, he always does thing like that." That made me felt very proud to have my three boys witnessed that. Trustworthy, Helpful, Courteous: By the way EagleInKY, I, too, wrote everything that was wrong with my house in details, listing what I will be fixing and what I will be crediting (how much), when I was selling our first home. Of course our realtor objected, I told her that I cannot unconscienably sell a house in good faith without revealing everything. We ended up selling the house for $10k more than what the same house would have sold for. So how about it ... what have you done to show your scouting spirit? 1Hour ps: Who knows. We might get a whole bunch of good stories for our Scoutmaster Minutes.(This message has been edited by OneHour)

I don't understand why this would be a problem. My oldest is the Den Chief for my second son's Webelos 1 den. The boys in the Den enjoy having him. If preferential treatment is what people are worrying about, I'm not sure about others, but I'm harder on my oldest if he does not execute his duties as a Den Chief. He helps plan the meeting. He keeps them busy while I tend to the parents with the Pack information. He teaches them. As an example, at an AoL ceremony three weeks ago, our den was tasked to be the Color Guards at the last minute. I gathered the boys in the Den together. I told them, "All right, listen up guys, we are Color Guards tonight, I want you to listen to Mike." I promptly left to tend to other details. My son took over and got these guys rehearsed and performed beautifully. Now, if the boy is not mature and is a handfull, first of all, he should not be a den chief, because you don't want to have another kid to watch over and of course, being in the parent's den will only makes it worst. The parent/den leader should be very objective in allowing/teaching the boy to lead the den. He can do it if he is allowed. It could be that the parent may not know what is expected. Maybe the difference is that I am an ASM and I know what is expected of the position. The parent/den leader should be given the position duties and expectation by the SM so that he/she can follow. Usually, if this occurs, the parent/den usually follow the instruction to the letters. 1Hour 1Hour

Have not, but used a "cubscout sign" at a rowdy meeting once. Didn't work, but got a lot of laughs after someone pointed it out! I would love to hear (as you do) how it can be implemented. 1Hour

My son calls me Dad. The boys call me and the other scoutmasters, Mr. _____. I sometimes make fun of my son and make him call me, Mr. He just smiles and says, "yes, sir." To me respect should have been the 13th Scout Law. I guess that 13 is an unlucky number and since there isn't a 14th law readily available, "respect" was left off. When a dad or a mom proceeds to carry stuffs or help his/her son, I would politely ask him/her not to do it for the boy. If he/she was teaching the boy a skill, then I do not stop that. If he/she was lecturing the boy, I would again ask him/her to allow the troop's youth leaders (and if needed adult leaders) to handle the situation. 10/10 times they respect that. 1Hour ps: Semper adding smiley by using colon and close parentheses or semi-colon for a wink!

Git 'r Done was a phrase coined by the comedian, Larry the Cableguy (a comedian that I have not had many laughs listening to). The best that I could decipher is that it means to get the work done, with 'r stands for "her" as previously noted. I guess that people can twist it to mean differently (not family rated) and make it to where it is politically incorrect. With its popularity, it may become a part of the great book of American's cliche', along the line of "alrighty, then," "six of one, half a dozen another," etc. Have you ever caught yourself saying,"Let's pick 'er up" or "Okay, you guys" (in the presence of a lady). I found myself having to correct myself in the presence of a lady. This reminds me of one of the new scout patrol that we had. They decided to choose the owl as their patrol sign and called themselves the "hooters." I'm fairly sure that this was very innocent for most of these boys are 10-11 years old (I could have been wrong!). The SM and I persuaded them to rename themselves to something else. They ended up choosing the Racoon and the name "bandits." This also reminds for Tim McGraw's new song "Back When." http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/timmcgraw/backwhen.html sitrep, I can see where Trevorum is going with that, remembering what scouting was. Yep, nowaday, what I thought was funny (being the receiving end of it), snipe hunt, has now being banned for being hazing. I guess that eventually, scouting will become very sanitized that scouting will still resemble scouting but under a different light. As for this issue, I'll take the middle ground. John-in-KC gave a great alternative. Personally, I would go with my favorite phrase "Follow Me, Boys." It comes with a song, a movie, and a good catch! 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

One problem that I see in our troop as a direct result of not enforcing any attendance rule is the lack of patrol spirit/identity. Times after times, we have to combine patrols together to have enough boys in one patrol. We used to have two patrols (Eagles and Dragons). They could not hold enough boys at campouts that they merged themselves and called themselves the Dreagles. Most of the time, the conflicts lie in band contest, orchestra performance, football game, baseball, soccer, etc. To me this question blends itself into the hotly debated question, "what is the definition of 'active'?" The sages of this forum have differences in opinion in this. My take is that we provide the program. It is up to the boys to take advantage of it. We will encourage them (coaching, SM Conference, etc.). If they take advantage of it, great. If they don't and still have a good time, great! We have four boys who started with a group of twenty five. After 2.5 years, they are still 2nd class while their peers are either Stars or Lifes, but they are having fun (from time to time, namely after football/baseball season). That's ok, too! You're only cheating the boys if you do everything for them. On the flip side of the coin, you are not serving them if you: 1) not trained, 2) not helping the boys accomplish the purpose of scouting, 3) if you are in it strickly to run the show. 4) not having fun. 1Hour Hey Eamonn, It's just your chive talkin' you're cooking with spice, yeah Chive talkin' This spice is real nice Chive talkin' so misunderstood, yeah Chive talkin' It's really so good Oh, my scouts You'll never know Just what it means to me Oh, my scout You put too much You're gonna kill away my taste bud With all that chive talkin' You're cooking with spice, yeah Good onion' Still gets in my eyes Nobody believes what you cook It's just your chive talkin' That gets in my plate!(This message has been edited by OneHour)

BSAChaplain, I thought that these things come in sheets for the badges with double adhesive sides. What can are ya talking about? The instruction from their website indicated that to remove the badge all that one has to do is to spray WD-40 on the back of the badge to remove. Even if it leaves a smudge, wouldn't another badge goes in its place? I'm with davideagle89. I'm sewing the permanent ones. The short term ones might benefit from the use of this (rank, temp badges). 1Hour

Great feedbacks so far. I also noticed that they have the adhesive hemming tape as well. Has anyone used it as well? My wife would love it if it stays on, especially for our 5 years old's pants. 1Hour

Todd, This is what the Troop Guides in our Troop do. They retain their affiliation with their patrol; however, they are a part of the new scout patrol (or new patrol). They help the entire patrol at each meeting. For the NSP, they help teach the skills and test the skills. They help with the planning of campout to which they include themselves in the menus, because they eat with the NSP. They camp with the new patrol. They are essentially there to help the NSP PL and APL as well as showing the guys the ropes (not just knots) . Once their tenure is up, they either continue on or go back to their patrol. They do, however, function with their patrol whenever their patrol needs them. We are looking at providing 2 Troop Guides for each NSP this year. Before we have a tough time of getting the TG to attend the campouts with the NSP due to conflicts with other school and extra-curricular activities. With two TGs, we probably have a better chance of having at least 1 TG at any campout. Some of our boys will have to pull double duties if this is the case. This is just the way that our Troop Guides behave in our troop. 1Hour

Genius Contest: Paper bags full of nicks nacks such as buttons, spools of thread, yarns, marbles, pipe cleaners, styro foams board/balls, aluminum foils, strings, ropes, construction paper, newspaper, markers, twigs, boxes, etc.... Don't forget to provide a bottle of glue, tape, or anything that they can use. They don't know what's in the bags ahead of time. Divide the boys into small teams or this can be an individual event. Each team or cub is handed one bag and the team or cub is to build something (a theme of sort, for example, robots, houses, vehicles, etc.). Prizes are given out based on the various categories just as you would in a pinewood derby. The boys do have lots of fun with this. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Question ... I just saw the ad for Badge Magic in this month Scouting. One word .... sweeeet ... if it works as advertised. What it is, if you have not seen it, is an adhesive for the various badges! Has anyone tried it yet? Is it as sweet (all right ... cool) at it seems? Does it beat needle and thread? Does it stay on? Is it easily removed with WD-40? Boy, this will prevent me from pricking my fingers to death! I understand that it is suppose to be sold in the scout shop. At $7.50 a pop, it might be worth it to try for the heck of it! www.BadgeMagic.com I'm not give the product a plug, but I'm just being curious. 1Hour ps: Ooops, I suddenly realized that I should have posted in the Uniform forum. My apologies. (This message has been edited by OneHour)

So ... it's a matter of time before this question is asked. With popularity of Texas Hold 'Em ever increasing, is it appropriate for the boys to play Texas Hold 'Em with poker chips or even potato chips? To me it's a form of gambling when chips are involved, what say the forum? I need to prepare my response when the first set of poker chips show up at a campout. Thanks, 1Hour

Yugi-Oh, Pokemon, etc., are different types of card games that are some boys' interest. There has to be a happy medium of coexistence. As long as they are played during the down time, free time, or dead time (rainout), there should not be any harms. I rather have the boys quietly play these card games when it is raining than have them played in the rain and we all have to deal with hypothermia, sickness, etc. (This message has been edited by OneHour)

A lexan bottle, spoon, fork ... etc. Think lexan! (This message has been edited by OneHour)

"One hint; dont tell the SPL he is wrong." Fscouter and Barry, great advices. Barry, you have hit it on the nail for me. I don't want to tell the ASPL that his idea has no merit, after all the talks that I have been giving them about thinking for themselves, acting by themselves, and working for each other as a troop. This will give me an idea on how to deliver the message to the ASPL. Thanks, 1Hour

FScouter, Good points. This was not proposed by the adults by any means. It was proposed by one of the Assistant Patrol Leaders. He pointed out that the fact that the various patrols in our troop do not have full participation in the various campouts (due to conflict with band, orchestra, football, basketball, baseball, etc.). It is not efficient to him. He sees a lot of waste, eg. two to three bottles of ketchup, mayonaise, etc. We do not to "tweak" the Patrol Method to make the adult lives easier; as a matter of fact, we are trying to get the Patrol Method going in our troop. We are still trying. This method has some merits, but it also has some issues that we adult leaders in the troop believe that might not make it work; however, I am asking for opinion from troops who practice it to gain an understanding of its merit. The ASPL is tasked to lay out the plans with the merits of the plans to the PLC. We, the adult leaders, will do our due deligence, then we debate. Thanks, 1Hour

Try ScoutDirect.com by Alps Mountaineering. I'm not endorsing them nor am I adversing for them, but they do give very good discount to scout and scouter about 40%. My son has a bag mummy bag that is hollofil. It has kept him warm even in 17 campout. http://www.scoutdirect.com/sale.htm Also look into www.campmor.com http://www.rei.com/outlet/index.html?stat=header_outlet for other possibilities of savings. About degree bag, Quallofil mummy bag is good enough in cold weather and they are fairly good to the rating. Remember, the boy needs to learn to dress in layers. My 20 rated bag was able to keep me warm when we were in a night of in 17 campout. Of course, I had fleece blanket/bag inside as well as wearing two layers of clothing. If there are foot warmers and the likes that the boys can toss inside the sleeping bag to provide a little more warmth; however, these warmers can cause serious burns if they come in direct contact with the bare skin. As for Quallofil or Hollofil or down, down is the lightest and most compressible and provides the most warmth; however, if it gets wet, you are out of luck in terms of keeping warm. On the other hand, the quallofil and hollofil will still provide warmth even if they get wet. You need to worry more about a good sleeping matt, ie. closed cells type. This will prevent the ground from draining the warmth down into the ground. Others may have a better advice. Down here in Texas, we're good with 30 bag about 5% of the time. The rest of the time a nice blanket would work just wonderfully. Good luck. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Do the patrols in your troop cook individually or there is a centrallized cooking effort where one patrol would cook for everyone in the troop, one patrol would kp, and one is responsible for fire and water. What are the advantages of having a central cooking effort vs. individual cook stations. Currently, our troop has it where each patrol has its own chuck box and they cook by themselves. To date, we have not lived up to the "thrifty" portion of the Scout Law. One of our ASPL suggested to unify the cooking effort (just the way that we used to do when I was a Tenderfoot ... of course, back then we didn't have a choice. We simply didn't have enough $ to purchase a lot of cooking equipment). Here are some that I can come up: Pluses: - Combine and reduce the amount of cooking gear - Combine and reduce the amount of food purchased and reduce waste. - Combine and reduce the amount of gear having to be hauled. - Allow the boys a better sense of patrol spirit and team work. Minuses: - It will take longer for individual scout to satisfy the cooking requirements in the Trail to 1st Class portion. - It will require a detail-oriented SPL to manage the rotations, something that we are still having problem with. - Quick and easy meals. (ie. cold cereals, snacks, etc.) But they will have to answer to the entire troop now. May be this is a plus. What do you all think? Thanks, 1Hour

Let's see if it works today. I'm not a fan of single line yell. I'm more of a cheer guy. Here are some examples that can give you an idea or two, but do get your entire patrol involve in making the cheer. That's where patrol spirit starts. Boom-a-racket! Cheese-a-racket! Sis-boom-bah! Fiery (Dingy, Dreadful, or ...) Dragons! Rah! Rah! Rah! (from the Marine vs. Army marching cadence) I don't know, but I've been told The Buffaloes think they're mighty bold They don't know what the Dragons can do We are proud of our patrol, too. Our looks and style may not be smooth But you oughta see these Dragons move Look to left and what do you see A bunch of Buffaloes just looking at me Shout it out and sing it loud I'm a Dragon and I'm mighty proud "For New Scout Patrol" Mama, mama can't you see? Our patrol, the best there can be. The Dragons are the best patrol. No one's better, we've been told. Mama, mama can't you see? What the boy scouts have done for me. Used to worry about our PS2. Now, we're cook and clean up, too. Mama, mama can't you see? The dragon patrol will shout with glee. Dragon patrol is mean and loud! 'Cause Troop xx is lean and proud! The marching cadence works great at big gatherings such as Camporee, Summer Camps, etc. You'll turn some heads and then you will surely inspire other patrols and troops to come up with their own and join in. Good luck and have fun! 1Hour (This message has been edited by OneHour)

In our Pack, our committee members get a monthly review of the pack expenditure. After it is approved, the accounting is then forward to everyone in the pack. 1Hour

Pack2 ... our troop was hosted by TAPO for about a year before we migrate to Scouter.com. I would say that TAPO is not a sturdy as Scouter.com. This is the first time that Scouter.com is down hard that I know of. It is back online. As for TAPO Chris Diamond provides great support, but as with everyone else (other than yahoo or the likes), he is providing the service out of his own pocket and the goodness of his heart, but the web server has reached its capacity in terms of hosting. It freezes and will not allow uploading from time to time. Chris also works for a living so support is whenever he can get to the problem. In actuality, our troop uses both, one for the front end and one for storage. Our pack is using TAPO. It doesn't matter where your website reside, as long as there is a limited funding or resource, the best that your website gets is the best of the person who supports it provides. If you want stability, then the answer is a paid hosting service. Of course, there are the free services such as Geocities, Yahoo, MSN, etc. I have tried all and the popups that come with these free services are what killed the website for us. Some of them are inappropriate at times. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Hmmm... to me this is a learning and training ground for dealing with scouts and scouters. Since you indicated that have a small troop and not a lot of volunteers, you have not really dealt with the volunteering world. I view that this forum provides that real world background. As everyone pointed out, you will learn to put on a set of filters and choose what and whom to read. That is the best thing about this forum! Now, I can't do the same in our Pack and Troop. I have to find the politically correct way of dealing with the parents who want to help and who want to just be there with their sons. Think of it as a dim sum a-la-cart dishes ... you just pick out your favorite dish and devour it. No one is going to force you to swallow what you don't like and didn't pay for and even if you paid for it, you can throw it away. That's why I don't frequent Issues & Politics forum. When one takes this forum too seriously as in getting upset or intentionally provokes someone else, then one needs to stop and rereads the Scout Oath and Law. ... as a Tiger Cub ... learn, discover, and share! YIS, 1Hour

Hi Mike ... how is it going? Long time that I haven't talked to you. Great advices (much better than mine)! ror, thanks to you, I just learned a new way to dealing with a couple of similar issues. Thanks, Mike. Hopefully, I'll see you at the Scout Fair and we can catch up! 1Hour

rour, If the scout finished all requirements and one of which is to hold an approved position of responsibility for 6 months, then why doesn't he get the Life ranking? This going touch off the old debate of young Eagles, but showing maturity is not a requirement of a Life ranking. The exact requirement is: 5. While a Star Scout, serve actively for 6 months in one or more of the positions of responsibility listed in requirement 5 for Star Scout (or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop). If the scout is weak on leadership then he should have been sent to JLT or being coached along the way during his tenure in office (ie. Scoutmaster conferences). Being 14 is not a requirement to be a Life Scout. Our troop has a young 14 Eagle who blossomed into a fairly strong SPL. After his tour as SPL, scouting took a back seat to Track and Field and Football for this young man. I was taught that if the boy finished the requirements (no more and no less) after he was tested, signed off, served, conferenced, and reviewed, then he has earned his rank. If you are doing the scoutmaster conference, then the game is not over. You can point out why he has not been active or why he has not served his position as expected. You can defer sign off requirement #5 if he indeed did not serve his position; however, if he served and did not get any guidance or training from anyone SPL, adult leadership ..., then he is not to blame. He has done his best according to his interpretation of the position. You indicated that this is a BOR. BOR is where the scout is to recount his experience going through the requirements for Life Scout. It is the time for the Board to check to make sure that he has completed all requirements (not testing but to make sure that everything was signed off, including the Scoutmaster Conference). It is the time for the Board to get feedback from the scout on the program, what he likes and doesn't like about the program and how it can be better to serve him and his friends. It is the time where the scout can reflect on his experience to date and projects his future and aspiration. It is not the time to tell the scout that he has not been a good leader because you think that he is immature. You can reject his BOR if he has not completed all of the requirements. If he has done his job and SM have signed off and the BOR has signed off, I would tell the scout and his parents, "congratulations, looking forward to your final step to Eagle." My son and two his friends are BOR away from Life and they all are 13. The SM signed off the position requirement without hesitation, because he indicated that each has served his position (eventhough I, too, thought that my son is too young to get Life scout). Looking back, the three boys have done everything that was asked of them. Their immaturities are there, joking around, goofing off, etc., but each served as PL, QM, and Scribe very well, not as the ideal PL, QM, and Scribe, but they got their jobs done. They took it upon themselves to get their requirements done for Star and now Life and that is what the adults in our troop want for them to do, self-sufficient. My 2 cents. 1Hour ps: By the way, welcome to the forum.(This message has been edited by OneHour)