OneHour

I asked our troop to view this before the troop meeting and we talked about it. I got great feedbacks from the scouts and the parents! ... awesome message!

1978 Ford Station Wagon bought it for $500 when I was in 11th grade. Had a pair homemade 14" speakers that rattled everything including themselves! When my 6 best friends and I went camping, it hauled everything!

Thanks, Mike, Barry, Beav, and all. I know for one thing. Something has to change or it will(actually has) become unmanageable for the boy leaders. They have not gotten the delegation thing down. For our size, NSP and age-based patrols do not work well. We are looking at having 1 SPL and 3 mini-SPLs (aka ASPL) with each handling 2-3 patrols. The problem is that the ASPLs do not want to serve their job and we have no one else who wants to step up. The poor SPL is struggling. The PLs for the NSP patrols (as pointed out) are struggling to find themselves. I had to ask the mentoring ASMs to step in and teach as appropriate. The problem occurs when the SPL and I cannot be everywhere. That's why mixed-age patrols seem to ring a better sound for me. I will talk to our PLC and my ASMs and present the recommendation here. We will plan out what is best for the troop. Thanks again. YIS, 1Hour ps: Mike, we do need to get together for a cup of java!

I'm not a big fan of dumping it on their laps either. Previous SM did that and nothing got done and nothing was learned. I am trying to go away from the philosophy of boy-lead=leave 'em to their own devices! I am a big fan of "if you don't train them, don't blame them." Dumping on them when they have no clues on how it suppose to run creates more chaos than anything. Beav, you are correct. Big troop=adults have to help. One boy (SPL) and his underlings cannot handle 86 boys (about to be 100+). I expressed the concerns (and did ask for advices here as well) on how to keep the influx to a decent roar. Right now, we are 60% boy lead and 40% adult help (not leading ... we never stand in front of the boys nor do or tell them what to do ... we simply nudge them with poignant questions. I constantly help my SPL with the planning with again questions and querying. I am at a lost of what is the right answer. Looking in back to my days in scouting, circa 1976, we had mixed-age patrols. That worked well, but as Beavah pointed it out ... it was a smaller troop and a different time! We are age-based patrol system and I don't feel the comraderie nor fraternity bond/excitement. The patrols die off after the boys age out. I will read and reread the advices (and thank you as always) and consult with my SPL (and my fellow ASMs & PLC). Boy Lead for our troop is my vision and in my tickets for my wb beads. I'm looking for best practice. YIS, 1Hour

oh btw ... I did read through all the threads that were included as well as the ones in the search. The more I read the more I got confused. There are different camps on this subject. I guess that I can look on the bright side. If I implemented the right one, I get to stay as SM longer. If I implemented the wrong one, I get fired! Hey, that may not be a bad deal! Thanks again, 1Hour

Instead of hijacking the other thread, I would like to spin off a similar thread. Here is the scenario. We are a troop of 86 boys, 7 patrols - 1 oldest age (8 juniors high school) patrol is somewhat inactive ... most are Eagles and eagling out ... hanging around waiting for high adventure trips - 1 patrol of mostly sophomores and handful of freshmen (12 all Life Scouts with no urge to run the troop nor do anything ... too busy with AP classes, sports, and girls), - 3 2nd year scouts patrol (7th graders). Very active and can easily be taught! - 2 NSPs (ok now they are almost 1st year scouts). Very active! Average patrol size is about 10. Don't ask! In our area where sports and school activities rule, this works out the best (ie. we get 6-8 at each campout for each patrol). We have been doing the new scout patrols (NSP) and are very fortunate to have on an average of 1-2 full NSPs each year. For the past 10 years of existence, we have never carried one patrol forward in other words, the NSP created, stayed together, graduated or died off together! We are a troop with patrols of the same age! I have talked to several troops and I am interested in format where NSP scouts stayed together after the first year, First Class, or whatever ... and then migrate into existing patrols, creating mixed age patrols and not forever. This would allow a troop to keep "traditions", core patrols. What I don't know is how it should work. 1) NSP for how long? I have read the other threads, but there is no consistency! Is it defined anywhere that I can reference from? The scout stays in New Scout Patrol after: 1) first year? 2) First Class? or 3) Tenderfoot? 2) a) Let's say after first year, then how do you divide the NSP up? The "older patrols" pick the scouts to join them? b) After the scout earns First Class scenario, then where does he go? Whichever patrol he wants to join? What if they don't want him? c) After Tenderfoot? same with b) ... how does a scout pick the next patrol or does the patrol picks him? Who gets to choose? 3) What if the older scouts in the mixed patrols don't age out? The size will increase to an unmanageable size, no? Right now our patrols are 10 strong each. With 5 patrols, let's say we have 20 NSP scouts to div up, then each of the 5 patrols will get 4 scouts. They will be 14 after the first year we implement this. After year two, attrition (age out or quit) reduces it down by 2 scouts. Then 20 more NSP has to be divided up again, then we are adding 4 more ... etc. After four years, if there is very little attrition, we are looking at a mixed age patrol of 16 scouts! Uggggghhhhh. What am I missing here? I need a magic wand! I have 86 boys and poise to get 24 more Webelos (10 from my youngest son's den and assuming 14 more from the remaining 35 Webelos IIs are coming over to our troop)! Please let me know what works for your troop! Let's start with ... Webelos join a new scout patrol and then ... Thanks in advance! 1Hour

Out of curiosity, do you or your senior scouts sign off the requirement(s) if the scout demonstrates it right after he learns it that same night? ... or do you wait another time?

yes ... from time to time maybe ... didn't notice ... but did remember patches of blue and green.

Streaming Video Mike Rowe's speech was great! Wishing I was there! If it were posted previously, my apologies!(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Finally, our all time favorite (ok ok ... my all time favorite) that the Pack loves to sing is ... Second Story Window. I have added Barney on there eventhough it is not a nursery rhyme! The Barney verse is still the kids' favorite. Second Story Window (Chorus) The window, the window the second story window. With a heave and ho and a mighty throw, we threw it out the window..... Verses Mary had a little lamb its fleece was white as snow and every where that Mary went (pause) she threw it out the window..... the window the second story window. With a heave and ho and a mighty throw, we threw it out the window...... (Action: both arms rocking back and forth in the throwing motion and finally the throw itself!) Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall Humpty dumpty had a great fall and all the kings horses and all the kings men (pause) threw him out the window... the window the second story window. With a heave and ho and a mighty throw, we threw it out the window. Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pale of water Jack fell down and broke his crown (pause) and Jill threw him out the window.. the window, the second story window . With a heave and ho and a mighty throw, we threw it out the window Hey diddle, diddle the cat and the fiddle the cow jumped over the moon the little dog laughed to see such fun (pause) that he threw them out the window.... the window, the second story window. With a heave and ho and a mighty throw, we threw it out the window...... Hickory dickory dock the mouse ran up the clock, the clock struck one, the mouse ran down (pause) so we threw it out the window..... the window the second story window . With a heave and ho and a mighty throw, we threw it out the window...... Barney is a dinosaur from our imagination. When he's tall, he's what we call, A dinosaur sensation. Barney comes to play with us (pause)(pause)(pause) and we threw him out the windows. the window the second story window . With a heave and ho and a mighty throw, we threw him out the window......

2 of 3 ... Another one of our favorites is the Fast Food Song: http://macscouter.com/Songs/Action.asp#fast_food Fast Food (Tune: A ram sam sam) Pizza Hut a Pizza Hut Kentucky Fried Chicken and a Pizza Hut Pizza Hut a Pizza Hut Kentucky Fried Chicken and a Pizza Hut McDonald McDonalds Kentucky Fried Chicken and a Pizza Hut A Burger King a Burger King Long John Silvers and a Burger King A Burger King a Burger King Long John Silvers and a Burger King Red Lobster Red Lobster Long John Silvers and a Burger King Dairy Queen A Dairy Queen Chucky Cheese and a Dairy Queen Dairy Queen A Dairy Queen Chucky Cheese and a Dairy Queen Roy Rogers Roy Rogers Chucky Cheese and a Dairy Queen "Arm actions" - Pizza Hut - Make shape of a hut in the air - Kentucky Fried- Flap elbows up and down in the manner of a demented chicken - McDonalds - Put hands on top of head and bridge out and down to produce the "Golden Arches" - Burger King - Put hands on head with fingers up to make a crown - Long John Silver - mimic sword play - Red Lobster - hold up arms and bring fingers down on thumbs like lobster claws snapping - Dairy Queen - mimic milking a cow - Chucky Cheese - mimic throwing up a pizza - Roy Rogers - mimic riding a horse

We do this one at campfire and at Pack Meeting. The kids (and adults) love it! Everyone needs to stand up! http://www.boyscouttrail.com/content/song/song-1135.asp Baby Shark! Lyrics: (shark mouth with hands connected at wrist) Baby shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Baby shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Baby shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Baby shark (shark mouth with forearms connected at elbows) Momma shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Momma shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Momma shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Momma shark (shark mouth with full arms) Daddy shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Daddy shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Daddy shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Daddy shark (same as Daddy, but with fists instead of fingers to look like no teeth) Grandpa shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Grandpa shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Grandpa shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Grandpa shark (swimming crawl motion with arms) Swimmer dude, Doh-doh, doh, doh Swimmer dude, Doh-doh, doh, doh Swimmer dude, Doh-doh, doh, doh Swimmer dude (hand on top of head like shark fin. Other hand rubbing stomache with hungry look on face.) Hungry shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Hungry shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Hungry shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Hungry shark (backcrawl swimming motion with arms) Swam away, Doh-doh, doh, doh Swam away, Doh-doh, doh, doh Swam away, Doh-doh, doh, doh Swam away (same backcrawl, with very frantic actions) Swam too slow, Doh-doh, doh, doh Swam too slow, Doh-doh, doh, doh Swam too slow, Doh-doh, doh, doh Swam too slow (hop on one leg to beat) Lost a leg, Doh-doh, doh, doh Lost a leg, Doh-doh, doh, doh Lost a leg, Doh-doh, doh, doh Lost a leg (hand on head like shark fin. Other hand rubs stomache with a very satisfied look on face.) Happy shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Happy shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Happy shark, Doh-doh, doh, doh Happy shark (push cellphone numbers to beat) Call 9-1-1, Doh-doh, doh, doh Call 9-1-1, Doh-doh, doh, doh Call 9-1-1, Doh-doh, doh, doh Call 9-1-1 (make any dieing actions you want. finger across neck, grabbing heart, fainting away,...) It's too late, Doh-doh, doh, doh It's too late, Doh-doh, doh, doh It's too late, Doh-doh, doh, doh It's too late (point to your bottom) That's the end, Doh-doh, doh, doh That's the end, Doh-doh, doh, doh That's the end, Doh-doh, doh, doh That's the end

... as soon as you can so that a new SM can be identified, vetted by the Committee and trained by you ... unless there is an approved succession plan in place already.

Our most heart-felt, sincere condolences, prayers, and respects from Scouts from North Star District, SHAC. Our salute to a hero. Please send our gratitude to Spc. Dimock's family for their ultimate sacrifice for us. Respectfully, 1Hour

Hey Pack, gonna miss ya when you do retire to the Caribbean! You are one of the few posters who posted on this forum longer than I have. You are one of the few whose advices are pretty much in line with what I was looking at. Happy journey! I know that Dave is still out there as well! As with him, old scouters don't fade away. They just find a nicer spot to sit and enjoy a good cup of coffee! 1Hour

I used these to start my lecture, uh, I mean speech to three Eagles at their Court of Honor. Anyone else can add? - What do you call an Eagle scout who just had a crew cut? (or What do you call an older Eagle scout?) A bald Eagle. - What do you call an Eagle scout who has been under the sun for too long? A golden Eagle. - What do you call a Life scout whose 18th birthday is coming up fast and he still has a lot of requirements left to do? wait for it ... ... wait for it ... ... wait for it ... ... wait for it ... ... An in danger Eagle! (endangered)

Alamance Scouter, it sounds like you have yourself a volunteer for the Pack Committee! Now, she gets straight from the horses' mouth and she would know exactly when and where the meeting is! If she complains about your leadership, you have just gotten yourself an assistant den leader! I have been fairly successful in getting volunteers or parents to butt out this way! Good luck! btw ... it is really neat to see them from tigers to eagles. I had the honor this past weekend to mc three of my scouts Eagle Court of Honor. I was their cubmaster when they were tigers and now I am their scoutmaster when they become eagles! Really neat to see them grow from brash, young cubs to oustanding young men! (This message has been edited by OneHour)

Barry, If I ever get to meet you, I would like to shake your hand! 1Hour

We have not had a problem until this year. We had 4 crews to SeaBase set up. Commitments were there as well as a non-refundable $100 starting August of last year. We had to scrub 2 crews with one barely hanging on for dear life. We had dad/son cancellation as late as 3 weeks ago with the reason of financial difficulty. They, however, forego the moneys that they paid. (It wasn't a financial difficulty, but that's another story for another day). This put our third crew endanger of being scrubbed off ... and everyone loses his moneys. We don't have a two or three strikes rule because it has been pretty good until this year. As for weekend campouts, we have had good participation in terms of commitments; however, what chaps my hides is the two or three scouts who sign up and decide at the last minute to come on Saturday. That throws the tent-mate situation out of whack! That frustrates me. I am about to ask that if they cannot come and leave with the troop, then we'll see 'em next campout. It's a little bit harsh, but it is not fair to the rest of the patrol. 1Hour

Agree with you Beavah ... it's all dependent on Scoutmaster's and/or Unit prerog, but there isn't a hard-coded, steadfast BSA rule. I was told these were the rules somewhere once-upon-a-time, but I personally was not able to find or cite the BSA rule. Hey ... nice find Beavah ... I knew that there was a thread of sort. That's why you get the big pay! Let's build on the other one! Ok ... I know ... I know ... I should have used the Search Engine! Sorry ... newbie's error ... ooops can't use that excuse either (been here since 2003)! Ok ... how about the sun was in my eyes! (This message has been edited by OneHour)

So ... I thought that this would be a great thread to have ... listing of the Scouting Urban Legends that you have heard or even created. Maybe this is where we can correct misconceptions or false assumptions about the scouting program. I'll start, but do correct me if I am wrong. 1) a) ASM cannot sign off his own son's requirement. False. - In our troop, we ask that the ASM to try not to sign off his own son's requirement if there is another ASM who can do it. b) Only adults leader or the Scoutmaster can sign off rank requirements. False. Yes, older scouts or scouts have already attained the rank can sign off requirements if they were given the task to do so.(We haven't given this ability back to our older boys yet ... after several of them were found to sign off requirements without even testing the scout's knowledge or ability.) 2) Merit Counselor cannot work on a merit badge with his/her own son. False. - In our troop, we ask that merit badge counselor to try not to work on a merit badge with only his/her own son, but to offer it to at least another scout in addition to his/her own son. Besides it is always good to have two scouts. This will give another scout an opportunity to work on the mb while the mb counselor will meet the YPT requirement by having his/her son there as well. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

The only thing that stated to the fact is what behind your passenger-side visor or in your car owner's manual recommending the size and weight of the frontseat passenger. We know that this will protect the small-size passenger from serious injury in case the airbag is deployed. Most of the newer cars have sensor that will detect weight that is less than 80 lbs where the airbag is turned off automatically. Older cars will have a switch where one can turn off the airbag. Personally, I usually have my SPL (or one of the senior leader) riding shotgun when I drive. I have his undivided attention for the 1-3 hours drive. This is when we go over the plan for the campout among other things that are usually talked about in a Scoutmaster conference. I would also chalk it down as another Scouting Urban Legend. So far this method has gained me an SPL from an unlikely candidate and inspired two others to step up on separate campouts, but the effect only lasted that campout!

I would have a heart-to-heart talk to the other troop and focus on the purpose of scouting as well as the survival of the troops. We all are trying to teach the same messages and ideals. This is what I am trying to do with our brother troop. Our troop cannot afford to grow any larger (86 and counting)while our brother troop dwindles away. We are trying to come up with a strategy to divide the incoming webelos for next year (45 of them) and years after that. So ... buy 'em a cup of coffee and figure out how to div up next webelos. Good luck Stosh. 1Hour

4th grade is a little bit early to receive AoL, correct? Not impossible but we usually divide our webelos years up into 1.5 years. Even with Fall/Winter cross-over, the boys are 5th graders (granted ... young 5th graders)! Many of our Packs cross-over in February/March time frame. In our immediate area, the drop out rate for Webelos is 10% out of about 25-30 webelos. This has to do with sport vs. scouting committment. The key ingredient in Webelos participating from my observation is how active the den leader is. As we all know, if the den is fortunate to have a good and fun den leader, then the den is more than likely to continue forward with vigor. On the flip side, if you have a burnout (as Barry indicated) den leader who just going through the motion to "get it over with," then you will find that the den will dissipate quickly. Everyone in the den will see it as a burden. My youngest son's den right now is full of energy! This is the same with the other 2 webelos dens in our pack and 3 from our brother pack. That's 40-45 webelos. They could hardly wait to get into boy scout next year. As in boy scout, it all has to do with the program. It is how it is being done as well. For example, my youngest son's den just finish our Handyman pin. They were in awe with what they got to do ... working on a car! The neat thing to them is to have a 16 years old Star scout there to teach them about car (and learn about it at the same time). This week, they get to build a toolbox with the full compliment of hammer, nail, plier, ... Every summer, we have 7-8 out of the 9 boys attend Day Camp and they could not wait until next year's! The best gauge is your own son! After every den meeting, I would ask my son how was the den meeting! Right now, he enjoys the den meetings much more than the Pack meetings. So ... ask him. Do a "scoutmaster conference" with him! Ask him what he would like and dislike about Webelos year ... do the same with the other cubs! That's how I and my Den Chief change our plan with the den ... it's how they like or dislike the den meetings. Webelos year (1.5 of it) introduces the cub to a lot of skills that the boy scouts do as well as the initial patrol method (if the den leader is willing to work with it along with a Den Chief). It can be an exciting time for the Webelos ... campout with different troops, campouts on their own, not doing arts and crafts, more games, etc. The 9 Webelos in my den, given a chance, will cross over today. Of course, having a scoutmaster for one of the troop as a den leader tends to help as well! But ... we will wait until next February ... after our final pinewood derby race! Good luck! 1Hour ps: By the way, the boys in my den (and other dens) are in soccer, basketball, and baseball! I know. I coach some of them! So sport is not really the reason! The time can be shared!(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Hey Mike, It's great to hear from you. I see that you have your feet on Terra Ferma! Anyway, my worst fear is, as it has already been pointed out, that this will create frictions among friends and neighbors. Our troop doesn't do anything more special than the other troop. We are car-camping, canoeing, backpacking, summer camping, high-adventuring as the other troop. Our boys run amock as any good troop would have them. Our boys fumble about as they try to lead the troop as any good troop would have. We have about the same number of adult to boys ration in terms of volunteers. Our meeting place is slightly larger but it is growing smaller as the troop gets bigger. There is a solution, but it will be drastic. Barry pointed out already. I have done it once already. I need to step down and leave the troop. Two years ago, I left the troop for a year. The troop ran dried (0 scouts) that year. Since I have been with the troop 8 years, we have been getting 20+ boys each year except for that one year. The problem is that I don't do anything out of the ordinary to recruit; as a matter of fact, every time that I sell scouting, I sell both troops. I usually keep myself low-key during recruiting season. I apologize if it sounds vain, but that is the only thing that I can think of. Most of the parents/scouts know me through cub scout from both packs eventhough I am only involve in one and through the my limited district involvement . The others know me through my coaching with basketball, soccer, chess, and tennis. Still others know me through my older sons' other school involvements (hence my involvement) ... orchestra, math club, etc. Barry may right. I may be the culprit. Ugggghhhhh ... as with Barry ... I love this scouting stuff too much to quit! But maybe sometimes, I think that one has to sacrifice for the benefit of the many! Again, my sincere apologies if I sounded vain ... I don't ever want to beat my chess and tout my own horn. It was very uncomfortable to have written that. Many of you are the reasons why people come to your troop. You are the trust that they are looking for their sons. I thought a lot about after what Barry wrote. I scares me! That's a lot responsibility and expectation! 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)