OneHour

Since I last posted on this thread almost 3 years ago, I have found a better niche. I now manage the networking group for a local university in Houston as my daytime job. This position has allowed me a lot more time with my three sons! My other real jobs are: - ASM for the troop - DL for the Pack - Member of the District Committee - Chess coach for local chess team - Assistant coach for my 2nd son's b-ball team - Assistant coach for my youngest soccer team - coach my oldest in tennis. - Assistant taxi driver for the boys to their violin or piano lessons, reporting to the "boss lady." 1Hour

... requirements for the mb are set ... no more and no less. Barry is correct. If the SM feels that the counselor is not doing a good job, the counselor may not be invited to counsel again; however, if he or she signs it off, then the requirements are completed. If the scout has done all requirements as prescribed, then we cannot fault a scout for adults' mistakes, misunderstandings, or miscommunications.

... being a proud Dad!

One couple additional advices to ones above ... scout out the area thoroughly before dark for pot-hole, stumps, bushes, etc., or you'll be practicing first aid most of the night! We tallied 1 sprained ankle and three scrapes and bruises due to tripping one pitch dark night! Also define out-of-bound area (ie. off limits) ... and having one to two pairs of adult or older scout's eyes wouldn't hurt. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

gwd-scouter ... it does take baby steps as it was pointed out. 3 years ago when my oldest and I joined our troop. They were 21 and losing steam. It was a fully adult run under the guise of boy lead. I and three other fathers took on the ASM job. We went to training and realized quickly what needed to be done. Of course, we did not do a massive turn about. We slowly influence what was taught to us. After that year, the SM stepped down and one of the three ASMs who shared the same vision for the troop took over. We are now 72 boys strong (that's with two other troops within a 5 miles radius). We are about 70% boys run. Boys run/lead take patience and perseverance. We are almost there ... you can, too! I and the scoutmasters are not quite to the point where we sit back and sip the coffee and watch the show; however, we are brewing the pot of coffee and looking for our recliner! The two hardest parts left are for them to actually follow what they planned and planned ahead! One thing we note is that the forward progress stops and goes backward a couple of steps after every troop election! But each time, it gets easier to train the new SPL! Good luck ..., 1Hour

Lord Kitchener http://www.pinetreeweb.com/reynolds9.htm

Karen ... thanks.

Thanks, gwd-scouter. That's the first time that anyone welcome me for over 3+ years on this forum. Oh, wait, you meant it for cb2boys. Yep ... welcome cb2boys!

Ah ... the fine art of getting volunteers to devotely volunteer! Been there ... and they have done that! Once upon a time, we had 15 dens and all den leaders (and asst den leaders) came. We had standing-room only. Then we made the mistake of taking minutes and emailing them! Leaders started to take for granted that they don't need to attend and still get up-to-date info from the Pack. We learned that in order to get them involved ... involve them! 1) We started to assign tasks to each den for the Pack meeting and they need to present their plan, tasks such as Pack meeting program plan or skit or song or clean up duties or ... 2) We do not send out minutes any more. If you weren't there, your den is volunteered for tasks or projects that you might not like! 3) We do not hand out Pack's issued items at Pack meeting any more (such things like pinewood derby cars, tickets to B&G, etc.). 4) We do not allow one or two people run the meetings! We involve everyone who came. We solicit everyone's opinion. 5) We do send out invites to the meeting and sometimes call the ones who did not attend. 6) We do provide refreshment, coffee, etc. 7) We do involve all of them in the decision making. 8) We do insist that they attend themselves or send a representative. 9) We keep it to exactly 1 hour, that means that we do have an agenda and keep to it! 10) Finally, we recognize our leaders for things that they did for the Pack! The leaders started to come back at least the majority of them! Good luck! 1Hour

Hey Hops, Many moons ago and in many leadership trainings, this is what I was taught and I still use it in our JLT. These are things that I teach our junior leaders so I don't mind sharing it with you; however, Kudu makes great points. Look at yourself and your experience and extrapolate from there. But here are the points in our JLT: A boss drives people - a leader coaches them A boss depends on authority - a leader depends on good will. A boss inspires fear - a leader inspires enthusiasm. A boss says I - a leader says we. A boss fixes blame - a leader fixes the breakdown. A boss knows how it is done - a leader shows how it is done. A boss says go- a leader says shall we proceed A boss speaks of processes and procedures - a leader speaks of goals and visions. A boss manages people - a leader leads followers. A boss worries about times and tasks - a leader worries about plans and people. A boss needs a control structure - a leader requires visibility, credibility and integrity. A boss monitors people - a leader inspires them. A boss suffers over failures - a leader learns from them. A boss manages the present - a leader focuses on the future. A boss enforces rules - a leader promotes values. A boss has employees - a leader wins followers. A boss performs tasks - a leader seizes opportunities. A boss solves problems - a leader facilitates team members in resolving problems. A boss tells people "work smarter, not harder" - a leader leads his followers to the fulfillment of their potentials: from where they are to where they could be. A boss delegates project- a leader delegates authority. Finally, but not lastly, A boss is created out of necessity at any time - a leader is borned out of respect over time. Good luck, 1Hour ps: These are ideals in a "perfect" leader's world. In a Patrol Method's world as well as in the real working world, a lot of times, being "a boss" is needed to get things done while elements of "a good leader" are great goals to strive for!(This message has been edited by OneHour)

We had a similar issue; however, ours has to do with pre-cut car. No one in our Pack right out bought a completed kit. Our Pack as others always promote pwd as a parent/cub activity. We continously reminded everyone the fact that they will cheat their son's out of a memory from his childhood. We hold workshop day as well. We cut the car basic body for anyone who are power-tool challenged. We offer other tools for the cubs to finish their cars. This year, with the proliferation of "pre-cut" bodies on the Internet that are made from BSA block, it has become much harder to regulate the boy made car. One father challenged our rule by stating that what we are doing at the workshop (cutting the body for people) is exactly the same thing as buying the pre-cut body. He has a point; however, I pointed out that the pre-cut, pre-fab bodies on the Internet are ready to paint and race! Our "cut" bodies are far from being finished. There are lots of sanding, rasping, painting ... etc. We went as far as wrote up all of the tips and tricks from 1st place winners of the past and published it to everyone. As for a completely built car, my message that I sent to our Pack is "...Now, you have all of the secrets of make a very competitive car within our Pack. Dont waste your money buying shortcuts. The experience of building the car lasts forever, not winning the trophy! If wining at all cost is your philosophy and you elected to purchase these shortcuts, then the Pack recommends that for a small fraction of the cost of these kits, a nice size trophy can be purchased for your cub scout. This will guarantee your son of a trophy that he and you desire. Please remember that Pinewood Derby is meant as a quality time and an effort between a parent and child." It's blunt, but it was meant to be blunt! We reminded folks that these "pre-fab" cars do not always guarrantee of a win! It is getting harder to keep intact the ideals of pinewood derby ... quality time with your son! As for your situation, 1) you can "accuse" the father of purchase it over the Internet and would get a) the sobbing story of ... I don't have time or the tools and my son want to race badly or b) this truly made by my son and me. 2) if you can prove that it is a purchased car then disqualify it and allow it to race in the open race only. Boy, this will be tough to prove and tough to see the disapointed face of the cub! 3) talk to the father about what you know and allow him a chance to withdraw on his own. or 4) Allow him to race it and prove him wrong ... purchased car doesn't guarrantee a win! In our Pack, we chose 4. We have allowed one or two "Pinecar" bodies to compete before. They have never done well. We simply don't have a heart to disqualify the scout at the check in (not unless it's something really obvious). We even made up a category for these types of cars when we judge them ... the Best MichaelLobby Car category! (from Michaels' Hobby Shop and Hobby Lobby where one can purchase the kit) Good luck, 1Hour ps: sorry about the rambling ... this has been a thorn on my side this year as well ...(This message has been edited by OneHour)

I guess that I can't really comment on your particular situation Committee Member; however, I could tell you how our Pack has done and it seems to appease everyone. To us the Arrow of Light ceremony and/or Bridging ceremony is a Pack's event. The CM and his staff set it up and contact all parties involved, including the receiving Scoutmaster(s). For our Pack, we usually combined the two events into one nice ceremony outdoor (be it on a Pack campout or by itself at the local park). We would ask our District's Order of the Arrows Lodge for a dance team to perform the bridging ceremony. As each scout crosses the bridge, there would be a SM and/or his SPL of the troop the scout is joing there to receive him. The Scoutmasters and/or their SPLs do not have to camp with us. They simply show up for the event. That is why we keep the campout close to home. There was one case where one of the Scoutmasters could not make it; as a result, the scoutmaster for the other troop stepped in an received the scout any way. Oak Tree is absolutely correct. The troops, the scoutmasters, the Order of the Arrows dance team, and everyone else who are not the Webelos II are guests. Bottom line ... it does matter for the scouts to have it together and it would be great if his scoutmaster is there to receive him; however, it is not a show stopper! Simply work it out with the scoutmasters! The unit commissioner is not correct. The ceremony may be performed by the troop but the whole ceremony is run and orchestrated by the Pack. I have asked the participating troop to alter their ceremony a bit to accomodate a few things that the folks in the pack want. The troop members are members of the Order of the Arrows and they should be performing this service without any qualms or problems! So far, 10 out of 10 times, they have provided us wonderful ceremonies with a smile ... and we don't always get the same troop! To have two separate ceremonies should not even be thought of! The boys came into cub scouts together and have been through the program together. They should leave together! My 2 cents. Good luck! 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Trevorum, Congrats (I think?). We, too, just took in 21 new Webelos from 2 Packs. We are dividing them into 2 NSPs, each with 2 troop guides and one ASM. The two troop guides worked well for us. This will ensure that at least one always in attendance with the new patrol ... also for crowd control. Four years ago, my son and I came into our troop (28 boys) with 24 other scouts of which 14 are currently Life. The two orginal NSPs are still alive and well. The year after that, we took in 12, but only 5 are left. Last year, 24 came in with 2 NSPs. There are 15 of that crop left with the two patrols are very strong. 1Hour

http://www.surviveoutdoors.com/reference/snakes/snake-bites.asp Good resource that I have been referring to. 1Hour

mbscoutmom, Our Pack used to do the same ... getting all boys to attain their rank and present them at B&G, but it has a negative effect! A lot of parents think that after they earn their ranks ... that's it for Cub Scout for the school year. They simply don't show up for the remaining pack meeting (3 months if you go with school year calendar ... 6 months if you count till the next school year!). Nowadays, we simply celebrate cub scouting and our Webelos 2! We send the Web 2 off in style and simply have a grand banquet. Web 2 do get their AoL crossover ceremony at the end of Feb as well. We also award pinewood's overall winners as well as the various awards. We recognize our adult leaders and announce new leadership (if applicable ... since recharter started Feb). This year's B&G theme is Olympic. Our CM is having each den to parade in with their den's sign, similar to the Olympic parade. We'll have a former Cub's father who happens to be a Torch bearer during the last Olypmic talks about his experience and shows the torch. Simply said ... "We're gonna Party!" 1Hour ps: to add to other thread ... our B&G is a huge undertaking. For the last two years, we are fortunate to have a father who is a caterer. He organized the feast for 300 folks ... including all logistics. There's usually a small army of parent volunteers!(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Hey Semp, Pack is one thing, but troop is a different story. Let me talk about Pack first. I'd prefer the size of a pack to be around 50-60. It's large enough to have fun. Admittedly, 132 was way too big. Not that District did not try to divide us and our brother Pack (and we were all for it). The problem is the adult leadership! No one wants to go to the new Pack. Remember that 4 Packs that will compete for space, time and resources. Many in our Pack will step up and help, but not many will lead. At the Pack level, a large size group is not that hard to handle if you have a lot of help. You'll find yourself not doing a lot of conventional Pack's activities such as playing games at pack meeting or arts and crafts. Our Pack meetings become more of a show than anything else (for skits, recognitions, etc.). It becomes a production! It's a lot less personal as with a small pack. Troop ... that's a different story all together. Logistics are the biggest headache with the large troop. Our current size is about 52 and we're about to pick up 12 of 13 boys from my Pack ... this is not including the Webelos from other Pack. Yes, we have another troop (our brother troop). Yes, we were separated at one point! We grew ... they shrunk! Recently, recruiting has become nasty, feelings were hurt, and unsubstantiate accusations flew, but that's a story for another day. Our troop would rather remain the size of 30-50 with 35 active boys! It's easier for the SPL to manage! Remember the boy leader can only influence so many other boys! It's a real challenge with a large number of free-thinking boys! That's when adults tend to step in! That's why I don't like large size troop. There are too many chances for the adults to pull the reign and intervene on the SPL's behalf! To answer your question, I prefer 30-50 boys for troop and up to 60 boys for Pack. 1Hour

Yep ... you read it correctly, 132. That was 6 years ago when I was a CM. That's only 1/10 of the number of boys in my son's elementary school. Every year during that stint, we would recruit between 30-50 boys. We had 14 Dens all together numbering from 1-15 (skipping 13 ... and who says that we are superstitious?). In order to handle the pack that size, I had plenty of help. There are about 25 active den leaders and assistant den leaders. The committee was always standing room only, but all good things must come to an end. The committee tappered off and now we're lucky jus to have the den leaders there. Our Pack is currently standing at 90 boys with 13 of them graduating! By the way, our brother pack from whom we split 10 years ago is also about the same size. At the time that our pack had 132 boys, they had 124! So within a 7 miles radius, we got the attention of 256 boys! Needless to say ... the fun never stopped! 1Hour ps: hence the 1Hour ... 1 hour a week for every boy in the pack ... so it seemed!

When I was a CM, a few years back, I made an effort to know all 132 boys' name (first and last) and did quite a decent job of knowing them. I will admit though ,from time to time, I can't remember some of their first names and have to resort to calling the cub "Mr. xxx." They liked it by the way. I also attempted to learn all 131 sets of parent names. That's impossible. I also resorted to "Mr. or Mrs so and so ..." They would correct me and I would learn their first name. It is not easy, but if you repeat it over and over again (eg., hey, Johny, please get off of that ... or Hey, Billy stop running through the ... for the upteenth time) you'll learn their names! Sometimes, it's neat to see their reaction when I called them by their full names! Some of them never thought that I would know! What's tougher is to remember foreign last names! Those ... I had lots of problem with remembering! Our Pack is very diversed ... so there are lots of chances to practice. I think that a CM needs to know every boy's name in the Pack. "Hey you" will only go so far! ... and it will allow you to relate well with the boys or the parents. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

There are standards already ... 1) The Scout Oath 2) The Scout Law 3) The Scout Motto 4) The Scout Slogan 5) The Outdoor Code To complete the list, we also have G2SS as the BSA guidelines and the rules and if one wants more along the line of spiritual guidelines and standards, look into one's own religious teachings. Let's toss the Pledge of Allegiance in for good measure. How these points are delivered is really up to the program. Let's look at something that is on the similar idea. Let's take the Universities and Colleges for example. Each has its own program of getting a student to a bachelor, masters, or PhD degree. Some are better than others; however, all have to follow a set of accreditation requirements to get accredited. A student with a bachelor degree in EE, for example, from Harvard should have all the fundamental EE knowledge as a student from USC, UT, TU, UAB, UH, TAMU(debatable on the quality ), etc ... The fundamental differences are the students and the teachers (the EE program is about the same). My 2 cents. 1Hour

To me it would be a better situation ... when my oldest was a wolf, I got volunteered to be the CM. My attention was devoted to the pack and not to his den or him. He had a great den leader, but it's not the same (as he later pointed out to me). If you have someone who doesn't have a child in the Pack and who is experienced and willing to join the leadership, that is someone who will have the dedication and devotion your Pack can definitely use. 1Hour

So in putting together our Webelos 2 dvd, I found some more songs that are great: (Fox And The Hound) Best Of Friends Lyrics When you're the best of friends Having so much fun together You're not even aware, you're such a funny pair You're the best of friends Life's a happy game You could clown around forever Neither one of you sees, your natural boundaries Life's one happy game If only the world wouldn't get in the way If only people would just let you play They say you're both being fools You're breaking all the rules They can't understand, the magic of your wonderland Hu-hu-hu When you're the best of friends Sharing all that you discover When that moment has past, will that friendship last? Who can say? There's a way! Oh I hope... I hope it never ends 'Cause you're the best of friends Also, ... "Wishing Upon a Star" ... Disney's songs have the most appropriate lyrics. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

We bought the arrow kit from the scout shop ~$11.50. We put together the arrow and then "wrap" the arrow with different color threads (representing the life achievements of the cub)(some painted the colors instead, although it doesn't look quite as sharp as threaded). One of the fathers in our Dens created the plaque (using poplar) for the arrow to be hung on (with his awesome router). I put my son's activities pins on the plaque as well as the engravings for them. Total cost of the plaque, engravings, and arrow is about $32.50 and a lot of work from the parents (otherwise known as labor of love). It looks a lot better then some of those kits that are being sold on the net. If you PM me with your email, I can send you the picture of it and the DMC # for the thread colors. One thing that I did for my oldest when he graduated ... I laminated the Cubmaster's farewell speech on the back of his plaque. 1HOUR 1Hour

This is good ... now you all helped me put together our DVD as well. dedejonge, as the last part of our Troop's summer camp DVD, I made a tribute to the adult leaders who helped us at summer camp and I used Mariah Carey's "Hero." It brough tears and folks were getting choked up, especially when a picture of one of our assist scoutmasters was bandaging up of the scout came up and the second verse came on ... it was beautifully matched! I think that I will do the same for our Webelos' DVD as well. Cheers and good luck, 1Hour Mariah Carey - Hero There's a hero If you look inside your heart You don't have to be afraid Of what you are There's an answer If you reach into your soul And the sorrow that you know Will melt away [Chorus:] And then a hero comes along With the strength to carry on And you cast your fears aside And you know you can survive So when you feel like hope is gone Look inside you and be strong And you'll finally see the truth That a hero lies in you It's a long road When you face the world alone No one reaches out a hand For you to hold You can find love If you search within yourself And the emptiness you felt Will disappear [Chorus] Lord knows Dreams are hard to follow But don't let anyone Tear them away Hold on There will be tomorrow In time You'll find the way [Chorus](This message has been edited by OneHour)

... oooh I forgot a couple more that I am putting into my 2nd son Webelos den dvd for the Pack: Pomp and Circumstance (graduation) and You've Got a Friend in Me (from Toys Story) also ... there are one or two that's great from Monster, Inc. You've Got A Friend In Me Lyrics (Randy Newman) You've got a friend in me You've got a friend in me When the road looks rough ahead And you're miles and miles From your nice warm bed Just remember what your old pal said Boy, you've got a friend in me You've got a friend in me You've got a friend in me You've got a friend in me You've got troubles, well I've got 'em too There isn't anything I wouldn't do for you We stick together and we see it through You've got a friend in me You've got a friend in me Some other folks might be A little bit smarter than I am Bigger and stronger too Maybe But none of them will ever love you the way I do It's me and you And as the years go by Boys, our friendship will never die You're gonna see It's our destiny You've got a friend in me

I'm planning to use several in our farewell dvd, including "Follow Me Boys," "Happy Trails," and this one from the Lion King: "We Are One" As you go through life you'll see There is so much that we Don't understand And the only thing we know Is things don't always go The way we planned But you'll see every day That we'll never turn away When it seems all your dreams come undone We will stand by your side Filled with hope and filled with pride We are more than we are We are one If there's so much I must be Can I still just be me The way I am? Can I trust in my own heart Or am I just one part Of some big plan? Even those who are gone Are with us as we go on Your journey has only begun Tears of pain, tears of joy One thing nothing can destroy Is our pride, deep inside We are one We are one, you and I We are like the earth and sky One family under the sun All the wisdom to lead All the courage that you need You will find when you see We are one