OneHour

Barry, You asked ... "why do you want to drill the holes? I'm trying to imagine any reason other than insuring perfectly perpendicular axles. Depending on what you find out on the rules, you can still fill in the groves with wood filler or even glue and then drill them out. I don't see that giving you any advantage and still accomplishing your goal." Some folks drill their own holes 1) keep the center of gravity below the axles plane, thus providing more stability as well obtaining more potential energy; 2) to extend the wheel base to move the center of gravity further back on the car (most Packs' rules disallow both of these). This year Gonzo and Barry, I'm trying a different idea on my Open Race car that I got off DerbyTalk.com, rail riding. The concept makes perfect logical and theoretical sense ... by having the car rides the rail all the way down, you would maintain constant velocity. Granted that the rail will provide friction; however, it is impossible to maintain "a constant straight run." Sooner or later the car will be bouncing against the rails, how many times will depend on how perfectly alignment the car is. So every time that the car hits the rail, it acts as a break which then forces the wheel(s) to start up again instead of maintaining a constant speed and velocity against the rail. The race is tonight. I will let y'all know the results! Gonzo, You wrote: "This years, his mom and I thought we would but a kit car, pre-cut. We chose the standard wheel base model. Supposedly, this is a fast car. With the car sanded, painted and assembled, it's 5.0 ounces at the post office scale. Instead of getting a car with the grooves for the BSA axles and wheels, we opted for pre-drilled holes. It's a very low profile car with weight in the back over the rear axle. We're using the BSA axles and wheels. The real question is, must we use the grooves? It would be as though we cut the car into a top half and bottom half, but we made the car from the top half, no grooves." The answer lies within your Pack's pwd rule, whether or not BSA original axle slots have to be used. Packs like ours will require for everyone to use the original axle slots. This is to make it fair for all boys. Not everyone has the luxury of power tools such as a drill press. Either way, I (and several of the more "interested" dads) have found that the luck of the Irish lies in the wheels and their treatment! Here are the right combinations to make a car very competitive and your Webelos can do this! 1) The weight has to be 5.0 oz or 4.99999 oz. Either way, get it close to 5 oz. 2) The weight needs to be closer to the back (assuming that the "short end" of the block will be your back) with the center of gravity about 3/4" in front of your rear axles. This is aggressive back-weighing. Also, the weight distribution needs to be 4oz is supported by the back wheels and 1 oz by the front. Use something like books at the same level as the scale and straddle the car across the two with 1 set of wheels on the scale and then take the measurements. Once you have all this then your son will need to work on the most important factors ... the axles and the wheels: 1) If you do not have time to slighly sand off the ridges on the axles, don't worry! Just mark where they are and have them installed up! Meaning the bottom of the axle is the smooth, already polished part will be the part that the wheel bore will be riding on. Just make sure that you file the ridges off (under the head of the nail). Spin some graphite on the axles. 2) The wheels can be lathed or lightly sanded to where they run flat! 3) This one, I learned from Derbytalk.com (Stan Pope): assemble the wheel/axle and align it to run perfectly straight and true, ie. no shimmy, no run-in or out, etc. It was pointed out that you can use small cuts of wax paper to shim the axles to make sure that the wheels run straight. It actually works! Previous years, my car in the Open always finish 2nd or 3rd and I noticed that it did the "shimmy" down the track. Folks on the board told me that it is way off alignment. This year, I aligned it according to suggestion and did not notice the car moves from side to side during the test rolls. Finally, spin in the graphite. If you have a dremmel, chuck a buffing pad and use it to spin (at lowest rpm) the wheels with! Squirt some graphite into the bore and touch the buffing pad to the wheels. This will 1) impregnate the graphite into the bores and axles; 2) simulate many heats. Keep on lubing the wheels until you get 25+ sec spin on your wheels and they spin quietly. Something to also try if you want to go further ... 3-wheelers and rail-riding! There are a lot of great info on Derbytalk.com. Those folks are very knowledgable and helpful. Apparently, they compete at a much higher and more professional level than we and our boys do! If you have questions, PM me and I will try to help. I'm not a professional at it, but I have been having fun with my three sons so far! Ahhh ... the smell of pinewood and the feel of anxious scouts ... It must be pinewood derby time again! Good luck 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Bingo, Gonzo! Let it be a learning experience for all the boys in the troop! I'm very sure that John can teach the boys in the troop a few things about China and the Chinese culture/language ... in return, the boys can teach John about his new home and scouting family! Communication is not impossible! I was working in Russia a few years back. My command of Russian is 0 to nil with 6 weeks of crash course in Russian. My hostess' English was as good as my Russian; however, we were able to communicate via broken English/Russian/and French! local1400 ... when I was in John's shoes ... scouting was the one place that I felt most comfortable! ScoutDad2001, one thing that I hope that the boys in the troop won't do is to patronize John. YIS, 1Hour

What a great opportunity to develop relationship amongst the boys! So, it takes a bit longer to explain to "John" the meaning behind the Pledge of Allegiance, the Scout Law, the Scout Oath, etc. It's an opportunity for the scouts and scoutmasters to learn how to interface with someone who does not have the command of the English language. Trust me John will learn the language before you know it. How can I be so sure? I was in John's shoes 31 years ago! ... a twelve years old lad who only know how to smile and say "hello and thank you." Yet, I was able to make to 2nd class! Learning and reciting the Scout Law and Oath is the easy step. The understanding them took me a little longer because I have to learn how to speak English first! Let's put it this way, after 6 months in the States, I went from 0 to 55 mph and then some! It's amazing how quickly young mind(s) can learn. Now, I have very fond memories of the friends that I made when I was a scout; as a matter of fact, I still am in touch with my SPL! Help John just as you would have if it were a scout with special needs. Just don't make it "an issue" that the troop has to deal with! How does a new scout learn how to lash without previous knowledge of it or the technical terms such running end, frapping, wrapping, etc.? Learn, practice, and demonstrate. YIS, 1Hour

How big can your pack be? A few years ago when I was in your same shoes with a Pack of 132 boys. I can sympathize with you. The formula is very simple and everyone has pointed out already. For me, you should get plenty of: 1) Training - get plenty of them 2) Volunteers - get plenty of them (don't ask for them ... tell them what you need for them to do) 3) Communications - get plenty of them 4) Planning - get plenty of them (plan A, B and sometimes in your back pocket C and let your Assistant Cubmaster(s) know. I find it very helpful to get the whole committee to do an annual planning in May.) 5) Fun - get plenty of them (... let the proverbial "hair" down and be a kid! Don't worry about being and acting as a perfect fool in front of 400 complete strangers!) 6)Gratitude - get plenty of them (... to thank all who helped you to have so much fun!) I love being a CM! WARNING, DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! General Surgeon may say that without volunteers there is a high chance burn out! Good luck ... it's the best job (ok ... second best job) that you will have in scouting. The best job? Scoutmastership!

My 1st question is ... what is the scoutmaster doing overturning a BOR? Scoutmaster is not part of BOR process. Besides, once your advancement chair and the BOR signed off ... he has gotten his rank whether or not the scoutmaster likes it or not. Secondly, behavior issues are dealt with at a scoutmaster conference. He is overstepping his boundary! I'd file a complaint with your advancement chair and his boss, committee chair. If he does not change, change troop, but it sounds as if you and your son are planning to any way! Have fun with the new troop. 1Hour

When I was a CM and was stepping down, our pack (14 dens, 132 boys) gave me a gift that meant more than anything that could be purchased. They gave me a scrap book of pictures and notes from each den and from each boy! That brought tears to my eyes when I read the book (even now)! One den gave me a plaque. My own den gave me a plaque with the pictures of all the boys. Another den gave me a huge role of decorated paper with their messages and signatures. Finally, the parents chipped in and gave me a gift card to Academy and my wife a bouquet of flower and a plaque thanking her for sharing me. Perhaps, the best gift better than that was at the end of that pack meeting, a mother took me aside and told me that her son cried when he found out that night that I will no longer be the cubmaster! I assured him that I am not going away and that I will still be around! That brought a smile to his face! 1Hour

We have about 70 scouts. Of which, we have 40-50 active at troop meeting. We have an SM and 5 ASMs. Of which there are only 3-4 present at the troop meetings. With this size of a troop, our SM constantly has SM conferences. So the ASMs would be roaming about to be available if the junior leaders need assistance. We also teach the skills if our instructors and junior leaders are not available (namely busy with mb or patrol meeting). At the start of the meeting, the scoutmasters stand in the back of the room until called upon. At which time, we make our announcement(s) and head back to our places in the back of the room. The SPL and his staff (and the scoutmasters) were given instruction that the adult leaders will not intervene unless being asked by the junior leaders and that the chain-of-command has been exhausted. It has worked out. I was almost floored two troop meetings ago when the SPL (a young 14.5 years old scout) lectured the troop about respect and leadership. It was almost like seeing your toddler takes his first step! It was poetically beautiful! ps: Our parents are there only if they participate in a BOR. Our advancement chair has a running spreadsheet of whose turn it is to be part of the BOR team. The rest of the parents are non-existent during the meeting.

This year will be my 3rd tour as Tiger Den Leader. This recipe has worked so far: - I sat down and created a whole year worth of activities including den meetings and go & see it. for examples: Wednesday 10/11/06 - Den meeting - scrapbook Saturday 10/21/06 - we visit the police station. etc. - After rally night and all roster is finalized, I assigned family names to den meetings and outings. Since there are ten in our den, each family gets 1 month worth of activities. I would do 1 den meeting and the parent would be responsible for 1 den meeting and arrange for an outing. The cub whose family run the activities for the month becomes our Denner! He is the boss! When that is recognized, the family stepped up to bat! - At the very first den meeting, I would explain how it will work and gave them phone numbers of each other. I asked that if they have a conflict, it is up to them to exchange with another family. So far ... it works out fine this year and everyone is enjoying it especially the parents. My first two tries with our two older sons, one to two families did drop out after they realized that it is not a drop and leave service. I do provide tips and hints on what they need to do and the resources that they will need. Now having said that, I always have plan B readied, but I do not announce it! Ah ... BSA volunteers ... the hardest creatures to capture and tame! Good luck

We teach them: - to volunteer - how the troop runs (by the boys) - to volunteer - how advancement works - to volunteer - how merit badge works - to volunteer - how the troop finance comes to be - to volunteer - how fundraiser works - to volunteer - what to expect in an outing (camping, summer camp, hiking, etc) - to volunteer - what high adventure is - and to volunteer Did I mention that we teach how and what to volunteer for?

We would have a lock-in. They do as they want, movies, basketball, dodgeball, Nintendo, Playstation, Xbox, whatever they decide that they want to do all night long! Our church has a huge gym ... so it is nice! We also hold a lock-in at the rock climbing gym, but that could get costly! The only thing that costs us during the Church lock-in is parental's sleep! Tried the mb thing one time at the lock-in ... didn't go far!

Wallace ... you mentioned that you established a feeder pack. How have you done that? Has your troop been there to help the Pack out every which way ... ie. partnering with them, campouts, pinewood derby, Den Chiefs, Blue & Gold, etc? You left the pack but apparently you did not leave anything behind (in terms of relationship). Some troops made the mistake thinking that by calling on the pack to let them know that the troop exists and that should be sufficient. The relationship is more than that. My suggestion is to get to know the Den leaders and Cubmaster at the these packs well. Invest time to build the relationship and show them what 70 years of scouting has to offer from your troop. By being close to them, you can tell which scout(s) should be pursue ... some cubs do not want to continue with scouting while other ones are really gunho. These are the ones that you would want to woo them. Recruiting requires time that some troops do not want to invest ... because they do not have the time. Once you re-establish your name, don't become complacent in thinking that by being there, they will come. Minimally, a troop should have at least 1 patrol ... 8-10 boys to have a good crack at staying together. Ideally, I'd like to see our troop come back down to 40 boys from our current high of 72. Recruit the den leader and the rest will follow (sometimes). To me, traditional means a lot. It means that the troop has a great program to have such a lengthy life. You just need to revive it! Good luck, 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

We just hosted webelos from 2 packs. We kept it simple and fun. In the morning our scouts went over compass and one or two first class requirement with the Web there as well ... while some of our oldest scouts setup an orienteering course. After lunch they all compete in the orienteering course (that took 2 hours). The remainder of the day were free time. At one point, the scouts challenged the adults in a football game. It was great. They had a great time, especially seeing the adults walked away hurting! 1Hour

gwd-scouter, please boast away! There is nothing wrong with being proud of the program that you have and continue to deliver! As I have mentioned before, this beats the heck out of listening to how scouting is about to become defunct! We hosted webelos from 2 different packs this past weekend. After talking to the some the parents, I felt great! We are doing something right! Gas to campout costs $25. Campout costs $15. Dinner during trip to campout $5. After asking the parents attending why they chose to visit our troop, a couple of dads said, "we heard that you are the best troop around! ... priceless! So please feel proud of your accomplishment! Congrats. 1Hour

Steve, Loved Journey and all the 80's musics! Great stuffs! Thanks for sharing. I can't believe that I used to have hair that long as well! I still have (and somewhat fit) my red beret! Ahhhh the 80's - high school ---> 1st car ---> college ---> 1st "reality bites" (ie. 1st F) ---> 1st job ---> married ... all in the 80's, what a life! Wouldn't have it any other way! 1Hour

got a Coleman Extreme 20 degrees F mummy (~$45) ... added a fleece liner ... stayed toasty warm in 17 degrees. My oldest has a Coleman Extreme 0 degrees (~ $55). My second son has 0 degrees down bag that I got off REI outlet for about $60. He has no complaint, but if I know that it's going to be a wet weekend, I usually let him have my Qualofil bag. Down doesn't dry very well. Fleece liner is great in Texas since it is used the more often than the bags! 1Hour

I forgot to tell you about a young man in our troop who started with our troop a little over two years ago. He didn't want to advance. He just wanted to go camping and have fun (goofed around and took nothing serious). He stayed at scout rank for over a year and at a stretch of 2 months, he stopped coming to the troop meeting. Then something happened, he came back and went at it like a bat out of hell at the rank advancements and got 1st class within that year. He took on leadership positions that at one point I thought that no one would trust him to do. Now in his third year in scouting, he is working on his Life rank and is doing great as one of the leaders ofthe troop. Somewhere, sometimes, something will flip that logic switch for a boy! He becomes matured and takes on responsibilities, but if you talk to my wife, it has not happened to me!

Racing on all four may be dependent on the rules of a particular pack. Our pack did not specifically disallow it. I do notice that 3 wheels cars did not finish 1st or 2nd in our pack for the last 3 years. Running on 3 is harder to keep the cars running straight than 4 and that's the key! Running true and straight will prevent the car from careening into the guide rails and ride them all the way down. This is where most of the friction that slows the car down occur.

... and I was waiting to read the part where he wants to quit scouting! ... and that part of your worries wasn't there ... so problem solved ... because there is no problem! As I have been telling my more aspired parents, let the boys enjoy scouting! This is not a race to Eagle scout. Just this past weekend, we had a campout. Two night before we left, one of the patrols' grubmaster mom email another lady, cc me. She was contemplating about changing his menu because his patrol did not put a "cooking meal" in! She indicated that if they don't it will be a waste of an opportunity for advancement for her 12 years old second class! I promptly emailed back, stating that this is their patrol's decision when it comes to the menu. It was recommended that they cook but if they choose not to then it is their decision. We have 3 scouts who got everything in order for their Eagle rank at the 11th hour on their 18th birthday. Before that, they were simply content being Life scouts and enjoy their time with the troop! Look at how many of us who were scouts at our early days and never got eagle! I am one. Look at us now, back in scouting! Trails to 1st Class should somewhat be structured to allow them opportunities to attain 1st class by end of 1st year, but we should not push the scouts. They tend to get disenchanted and ended up quitting if we do. I have seen it happened several young scouts who just join the troop. On the flip side, if his interest in scouting is waning, then you need to figure out how to get him excited about scouting again. Most of the time, if the parent has fun with his/her son (ie. enjoy camping, hiking, teaching, etc.), the boy will enjoy scouting and the advancement will come naturally. YIS, 1Hour ps: My oldest is going on 15 and still a Life scout and has yet to have any urge to complete his mb requirements nor starts his project. My 2nd son is 12.5 and a second class. He, too, is not in a hurry to even get to 1st. One thing that they both do well is to enjoy the outdoor with me!(This message has been edited by OneHour)

SSScout, pop a wheelie is good ... except when the car lands back onto the track. Nine out of ten times, it will land crookedly and drags all the way down the track. One of my second son's cars did this. He mounted the weight all in the rear! After four heats, his car averaged 2.89 sec (good enough for to be in the top 10), until the fifth heat where his car ran on the lane with a known slight bump. His car popped a wheelie and landed crookedly. It corrected itself and ran on all four, but finished last in that heat with a 4.1 second. His car ended up finishing 31 that year. SSScout points out something that we noticed too. The wedge shape seems to be the best; however, that would make it too monotonous to have 80+ wedges! One year, we had a surfboard that finished 4th overall and a skateboard (w/a dude) that finished 6th. One year, we had a slim wedge that had a donut weight mounted on top right above the rear axle. It finished 1st overall. So ... you can go for looks or you can go for speed! The easiest way to keep dad from interferring is to have an open race! In our pack, we hold an 18-wheeler race in addition to a pinewood open race. It will take all the time that he has to put one of those trucks together! It's great! We race cabs and trailers together and have a separate one for just the cabs, all in single elimination!

So ... what is your secret? There are new cubs, new parents, and newbies who are looking for helps and hints. I'm fairly sure that there pwd gurus among us who would love to shed his/her secret so that everyone can benefit. This will encourage folks to help their sons to make their own pinewood racer instead of buying one on eBay! There are books written, video/dvd made, and knowledge passed from one generation of pinewood racer to another. Now, let's be good sports and not posting something that is out of a purchased book of "how to." It will not be fair to that author. If you know of a trick that would help, I'm sure everyone will be appreciative of the knowledge. Here is a good derby forum: www.derbytalk.com I'm not an expert. I've only been building and help my sons to build pinewood derby cars for 7 years, going from not knowing the minimum weight of 5 oz (and having my oldest tiger's car stopped dead on the track 1/2 way down) to help everyone in the Pack to be very competitive. So.. the followings are what I found to work. My oldest used it and won 3rd overall in our Pack of 110 cars. My second used it and won 1st overall in our Pack of 96 cars. It (as other tips and tricks) is not the only factor. The other factor that everyone seems to forget is LUCK! I'll start: 1) Use the full 2 inches (outside wheel to outside wheel) that the Packs rules give you. This will allow the wheels to travel farther before hitting the center guide strip. Remember, every time that the wheels hit the guide strip, the car slows down. So going straight is the key! Axles must be in straight front to back. That is square to the body. True the axles, don't trust the slots! If you have one, use a drill press to ensure all axles are straight. After pressing in the axles, test the car for crooked wheels...roll it on the floor. If the wheels are on straight, the car should roll 8-10 feet in a fairly straight line. Should the car turn left or right, you need to tinker with the axle placement without removing them from the car body, until it rolls straight. After you have finished the body, just press the axles with the wheels in an glue it! 2) Leave a lot of wood in the back to put in the weights. It was determined that the best location for the weight is towards the back of the car. Drill and implant the weight in. Use the bullet fishing weight. Tungsten weight is the costliest, but it will allow you to keep your car profile thin. A car with more weight to the rear generally grabs more speed down the slope. Many suggest having the center of gravity at 1 to 1 1/2 inches in front of the rear wheels. But be careful not to put too much or all of the weight in the rear or your car will pop a wheelie. 3) Use your imagination. Be creative. Shape has the least to do with winning. At this level, aerodynamic has really no bearing; however, having said that, in the past races, it seems that a wedge-type of car does better than other shapes. 4) The axles (the four nails) that come in the kit have several flaws, namely burrs and crimp marks. Remove them marks by chuck the axle into the drill or drill press and polish the axles. First with a 400 grit sandpaper if you have a really bad spot, then 600 grit, and then use 800 grit. Finish off with a chrome/metal polish. 5) Get the weight as close to the 5-ounce limit as possible. The heavier your car, the faster it will go. Remember, gravity is powering this car. 6) Break in the wheels by spinning them with lots of graphite. Lube the wheels and axles by squirt graphite into the wheel hub and spin the wheel. I'd use graphite. The teflon does not work well at all especially in humid area such as Houston. Spin each wheel and count the number of seconds that it spins till it stops. Without any lubrication a typical wheel will spin up to 4 seconds (or a count of 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004) and sounds very coarse and rough. After it is thoroughly lubricated with graphite, the wheel should spin about 15+ seconds and sounds and feels very smooth. The best set of wheels from previous races can spin up to a 25+ count. The more lube the better! If you can get the wheels to spin forever without stopping, patent it, cause you have found the long sought answer to pinewood derby tips and tricks (as well as answer to friction) and can get very rich from it! Helpful websites: Non-commercial sites: The Ultimate Pinewood Derby Site: http://members.aol.com/randywoo/pine/ The Effect of Weight Placement on a Pinewood Derby Car (Science Fair experiment): http://members.aol.com/StanDCmr/scfairm.html How to Build Pinewood Derby Cars by eHow: http://www.ehow.com/how_7445_build-pinewood-derby.html The Physics of the Pinewood Derby: http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~mdevine/pinewood/pinewood_derby.html Pinewood Derby Race Tips by Scoutorama.com: http://www.scoutorama.com/derby/ Ol Buffalo Pine Car Page: http://www.three-peaks.net/pinecar.htm Shape N Race Derby: http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/derby/ Collection of Pinewood Derby Sites: http://www.geocities.com/~pack215/pinewood.html Pinewood Derby Super Site: http://home.simplyweb.net/bosworth/ Pinewood Derby Car Design by Stan Pope http://members.aol.com/standcmr/pwdesign.html Commercial Sites: (DONT BE TEMPTED TO TAKE SHORT CUTS!) Pinewood Derby Car Plans and Supplies (Maximum Velocity) http://www.maximum-velocity.com/ Sample Pictures of pinewood cars: http://www.pinewoodpro.com/pinewood-derby-car-pictures.htm ABC Pinewood Derby http://www.abc-pinewood-derby.com/ Great Decals http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0091P?&C=YWE&V=JAH 1Hour

One more thing ... I have asked boys in our troop to help at these workshops as a service hour. Some even show up without needing service hours. It has something to do with ... "when I was your age, I used to make it like this ..." You'll be pleasantly surprised! The bandsaw is still operated by an adult!

Eagle Pete, pwd workshop is easy to put together. All that you need are: - a band saw w/gogles - a drill - some acrylic paint/ painbrush - a few decals - bullet fishing weights - sandpapers / electric palm sander is easier - graphite lubricant - super glue, wood glue, wood filler - a scale - several adults to help! At the workshop, they draw the body. We cut it out and that's it! We teach them what to do and how to do it. They do it themselves! At registration, after weighing each car, we advise them if they are underweight or over and give them the resources to fix their cars. Every car is at a minimum of 4 oz! Every car is given an opportunity to lube its wheel if the cub chooses. To date, every one of the cars finishes the race ... none stop dead in the middle because it is too light!

It amazes me that we allow ourselves to forget the principles that we try to teach our scouts ... Let's practice what we preach (the old fashion boyscout way) ... A scout is ... trustworthy loyal helpful friendly courteous kind obedience cheerful thrifty brave clean reverent The way that this thread is heading ... we may only be able to salvage loyal, obedience, thrifty, and possibly reverent. ... ahhhh, I have been trying not to put my 2 cents in, but this thread has the essence of the problem with starting scouting in 2006. Let's call a truce and get back to scouting and the old but wonderful scout oath, law, motto, and slogan that we all come to love and know. Let's get back to that 1 hour a week that we _____ so much! YIS 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Hi ScoutMomAng, 1. What do people want in training? (handouts, ideas, how to's, or EXACTLY how to conduct a meeting) When I was attending WDL looking for answers, the class that I attended was dried. The instructor took it straight out of the books. What I and some of the attendees were looking for was both ... what should be done and how it was done successfully! In other words ... examples. You will find that a lot of the WDL leaders are Den Leaders already. They have been running the Webelos dens before the training dates. They are looking ways to better themselves. 2. Is there someplace I can find "National Guidelines" online for training? The scout shop should have the training video (cd) for it. Your District Trainer should have the training materials. I have not found a National Guidelines. Maybe others know where one is. 3. Would it be better to do a Question and Answer session for WDL training, where they ask me questions about Webelos and I answer? Go through the required materials first and then an interactive session is always welcome. I have pointed out, this is really what people came to learn. 4. Or would it be better for me to just conduct a den meeting? Yes ... a part of hands-on demonstration. 5. How do I add "pizzazz" to a WDL training?? Treat the adults as though they are the Webelos, lots of jokes, laughters, games, etc. Have a knots-tying relay. Have a first-aid baseball game. etc... Lecturing through the whole course is not the recipe for learning and enjoyment. Good luck, 1Hour

It must have been the wrong Mackin Group that I found. Learn something new every day! Eagle Pete ... it's really depends on your Pack pwd rules and regulations! Some Packs allow it ... some don't. Some allow wheels alterations and wedging, some don't. Some allow extending the wheel base, some don't. Our pack's rules are most don't ... to keep it even and fun! It is silly to have professionally made wafer wheels with extended wheel-base that can only accurately be made by a drill-press. Here is an excerpt of the reminder that we send out with the kits before every pinewood derby event: "This project is a parent and son event, and is intended as such by the National Boy Scouts of America. The Pinewood Derby Committee STRONGLY SUGGESTS that each parent emphasize this idea with your son. In all of the events, we insist that the cars be built this year by you and your son (not the physics labs of the university, car shop, model shop, or other such facilities not generally available to the public or everyone in the Pack). In recent months, a large number of online pre-cut BSA kits as well as complete cars are available over the Internet. These are shortcuts that Pack does not support. Although derby registration officials cannot prevent these kits from being used and they are very difficult to identify, participants should keep the following philosophies in mind before purchasing such kit: 1. The Cub Scouts Motto: "Do your best" 2. "Parent-child project" If wining at all cost is the philosophy and you elected to purchase these shortcuts, then the Pack recommends that for a small fraction of the cost of these kits, a nice size trophy can be purchased for your cub scout. This will guarantee your son of a trophy that you and he desires and it also allow other scouts to compete at the same playing field. Please remember that Pinewood Derby is meant as a quality time and an effort between a parent and child." 1Hour