OneHour

We have a semi-formal Trails to First Class where the requirements are laid out for the entire year by an ASM after the troop's annual planning. The plan then is given to the PLC to work in their monthly schedule as well as line up the appropriate instructors. We use NSP ... so if the whole patrol attend all meetings and campouts, they would advance pretty much together. The skills would be taught (by the older boys ... with an ASM acts as QA). The skills would be tested the next week or at a campout. This would at least force the scouts to review and practice at home for at least one week. The skills are tested by an ASM. We found that the older boys tend to sign off eventhough the skill is not mastered. If the SM asks me to do scoutmaster conference, a sampling of the skills for the rank would be demonstrated to me again. Maybe that's why they fear getting a scoutmaster conference with me. Our SM is easier. By the way, I don't add any more requirements than what is expected of the rank to know. Once upon a time (about 4 years ago), our older scouts know little or nothing of the skills that they learned in TFC. Nowadays, our instructors are fairly good at the skills. 1Hour.

We have the following: - 76 boys registered. - 6 existing patrols - SPL - four ASPLs - 1 NSP - 1 SM - deals with Scoutmaster Conferences and acts as lead scoutmaster. - 6 ASMs - 1 mentoring NSP - 2 mentoring two Trails to First Class patrols (semi-formal program) - 2 mentoring two Trails to Eagle patrols (no formal program) - 1 Eagle coach - Each ASM leads two events. - All are trained in all basic BSA training, except for WB. - Four are BSA lifeguards - 4-8 merit badge counselors - Committee - 1 Committee Chair - 1 Secretary - 1 Treasurer - 1 Advancement Chair - 1 Activities Chair (permission forms, tour permits, etc.) - 1 Fundraiser Chair - 1 Health and Safety Chair (responsible for all health forms, etc) - 6-10 Committee members (number varies) 1Hour

I sit corrected. Eagle69 is correct. Camp Pioneer is over the west side of AK. The camp is great ... camp staff are very spirited. Camp food is the standard camp food! When all else fails, pb&j and the salad bar. 1Hour

Camp Pioneer is not bad at all. MB classes are relatively close to each other. Temperature range is very decent in June, in high 80s to low 90s. Only one negative ... between the check-in and camp is a highway. First timers would think that this is part of the camp and would casually walk across an active highway ... this is very dangerous. Otherwise, it's a great camp in Arkansas (on the east side). Camp Orr is good as well. We liked camp Pioneer better. 1Hour

Linda J provided a little insight into Slippery Falls Scout Ranch. Our troop is heading there this summer. Anything feedback or advice to make it a fun week would greatly be appreciated. Linda J indicated that the food was good except for the meatloaf. How about mosquitoes ... any or bad? Temperature range? etc. Many thanks in advance. 1Hour

Our pack has an understood term limit (2-3 years) and rightfully so. I have 3 sons as well and the Pack thought that I would be the CM for 10 years, but I'm glad that I was able to use the "term limit" to excuse myself and nominate my successor. Oak is correct. After a while, it becomes routine and the job becomes less exciting. Burnout is also a factor as well. I enjoy working with the current CM with all activites more than when I was the CM. Now, I don't have the burden of being CM. I can actually let the rest of "my hair down" and be as funny and crazy to the kids as I need. Also, I found that when I was the CM, my sons lost out to the Pack. I found that I was too busy taking care of pack business and all the kids that my sons were doing stuffs by themselves at times (when my wife is not there). You can always help the Pack several ways. The work will always be there ... just you will support it at a different capacity ... committee member, committe chair, Den Leader, actvity chair, etc. The important thing ... you can still have fun with all of the boys, including your sons! 1Hour

... all of the above are great ideas, here are a few that we like to toss in from time to time: - waterblast - all comers armed with water guns and blast away (it's great with park that has a "fort" to defend). The fire truck would be invited to give the boys a talk and afterward spray them (skyward of course) with the big gun! It's great when it's 95 degrees. - Pack's night at the movies (outdoor) ... with a project, a large white sheet, dvd player, surround sound, and Trails Ends' popcorn in the park ... great stuff! (movies like Follow Me Boys, Down and Derby, etc.) - Overnights at the Zoo, Battleship, Botanical Garden ... providing that they have programs like this. - Chess lesson/tournament to earn the chess belt loop and pin - Cub Day Camp - Pack Magic Show - Talent Show - RC car, boat, plane race (tend to be a few interested) - Let's Go Fly A Kite day - Web Aquanaut pin day where others can earn their swimming belt loop and pin ... Let your imaginations run free and look around at the resources at your disposal and ask yourself one question ... what would you like to do if you were a kid in the summer? Good luck 1Hour

http://derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=2321&highlight=licence+license http://derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=947&highlight=licence+license

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Listen. In order to maintain air-speed velocity, a swallow needs to beat its wings forty-three times every second, right? This new learning amazes me, Sir Calico. Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes. Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

- The one important question to ask these days is "Who has the cell phone with the internet link?" Ooooooohhhh, oooooohhhhhhh, (raising and waving my hand wildly), would a blackberry count? - Fred Savage is wearing a jersey, whose is it Ooooooohhhh, oooooohhhhhhh, (raising and waving my hands wildly again) Da losing Bears! - who is in the poster above his bed? Googled it and all that I can come up with ... Spinal Tap ... so ... it's Rob Reiner. Sorry, I will have to punt on this one ... but ... 'I do not mean to pry, but you don't by any chance happen to have six fingers on your right hand?'(This message has been edited by OneHour)

As {Trev} told you, it would be absolutely, totally, and in all other ways inconceivable. No one in Guilder knows what we've done, and no one in {Scouter.com} could have gotten {the answer} so fast! Look, I don't mean to be rude but this is not as easy as it looks, so I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't distract me. Beautiful isn't it? It took {LongHaul} half a lifetime to {ask} it. I'm sure you've discovered {his} deep and abiding interest in pain. Presently I'm writing the definitive work on the subject, so I want you to be totally honest with me on how the {logic problem} makes you feel. This being our first try, {he has} use the lowest setting {of logic}.(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Who says that troop cannot participate in PWD? Our pack invites the local troops to submit their entries for the Open Race. In return, the troop provides the service hours to help run the derby! It's a great way to let the Troop/Pack interact and build that relationship. 1Hour

CNY ... can y'all package 'em and ship 'em down here to Texas? We'd love to have a few inches! Houston, Tx, that is. I'm sure that the Panhandle has their fare share. Yesterday, I had to turn on the AC in the car! AC in February! Uggggghhhhh!(This message has been edited by OneHour)

I got this link off DerbyTalk and thought that it would be great to share. Pinewood Derby is alive and well with our troops in Iraq. http://www.sbsu.com/derby/ 1Hour

Two things, pack meetings are your responsibilities (CM) to entertain the boys. You do as you see fit! Crossing over late will not allow the Web to acclimate to boy scout world before summer camp! Chances of extreme homesickness at summer camp are high! Cross over in February will give the Web at least 2-3 campouts with the troop before that long, summer camp! Committee meeting is her playground and you are there to represent the program side! Committee (including the CC) is there to HELP YOU and the other den leaders to make the Pack go! ... and "the Pack helps the cub scout grow!" Hmmmm ... that's ... that's part of the Cub Scout Law! 1Hour

gwd-scouter ... you asked: "Why then did they not choose us?" Have you talked to them and their parents? Have you tried to persuade them what a good thing that y'all have and that they can make it better with their expertise? What is it that you don't have that they are looking for? Have you focussed your effort on the Den Leader and his/her son? Have you taken them out on outings and so them the fun that your boys have? Befriend with the leadership in the Pack and constantly put your troop's face in front of the pack! Have you gotten in touch with other packs? Nowaday ... feeder pack is really the exception than the norm. With my recruiting efforts, I have become familiar with the reasons for one troop being chosen over another! Parents are looking for: - recommendation from den leader(s) - name and reputation (former den leader, cubmaster, committee chair whom they respect) - organization - leadership (lots of them ... mainly adults, but we all know that this is not possible in a boy-run troop. What they are looking for is adult leaders come by and talk to them!) - processes and procedures (signs of organization ... junior leaders know what they are doing, again a perception by the adults.) Boys will look for: - fun - fun - fun - fun This year ... we are receiving 10-12 boys from two packs. One den (12 boys) from one of the packs was going to join us; however, at one of the troop meeting that they visited, the den leader's son got hit in the face with a ball when the boys was playing dodgeball. From that point on, the boy decided not to have anything to do with us and chose to go to the other troop. Hence the rest of the den follows. Did we do anything differently from previous years? No, not really. We will pursue new webelos as hard as we can eventhough we don't need any more boys! Good luck! 1Hour

I apologize ... but this hits a nerve for me! I was accused of "bad mouthing" the other troop in order to get boys! I feel bad for the other, but if they don't recruit, they can't blame me and our troop! 1Hour

Lisabob, with all due respects, but I will have to disagree with your perception: "As for recruiting new scouts, smaller troops really have to work hard at this. In my experience, larger troops can sit back and do virtually nothing and still, new scouts will join. As gwd suggests elsewhere, it is almost unfair sometimes!" We were a small troop 20-25 boys. We recruited as everyone else for the past 4 years. We grew to 70 boys strong, still we recruit. We invite webelos to join us on campouts. We assist packs (not one but many) with their pinewood derby, B&G, campouts, etc. I and other ASMs work closely with the packs; however, when the boys come to visit, I sell Boy Scout (not just our troop)and let them know of other troops around. There are 2 other troops within the 5 miles radius. They stayed small. They make hardly any effort to recruit. Our program became our selling point! They came, they saw, and they joined. How did I recruited boys when we were thin? - I recruited the boys as well as the parents! But before that we had to change our ways ... from a adult-run to a boy-run. We put ourselves online. - I and our SPL came and talked to the webelos dens about us, about scouting, and about their future. - I got our troop to help out with the pack activities, including providing den chiefs, providing a fun campout and campfire. - In short ... gain their trust and confidence and provide them with a program that they want to join! If you are successful, don't be complacent and drop recruiting and program and blame the other big troop for taking away from the small ones! From my pov, the small ones are the ones that do not have the support of a lot of parents! These troops are supported by a very small number of parents! Most of the time ... one dedicated SM and 1-2 more adults! As a matter of fact, our troop committee chair was the one who wanted to "selectively" choose the boys! I found myself convincing him and the committee that we take any and all commers and that we are not an exclusive club! Smaller troop is truely more flexible. You can pick up and go at a drop of the hat! That I truely agree with! Smaller troop can be more boy-led. This is not true! As a matter of fact, smaller troop is harder since the patrol can not stay together. I have found that when we were 25 boys, the patrols start to lose their identities when we have to combine the boys so that we will have enough to camp! In our troop now, the patrol identities stay intact at every troop meeting and campouts, because each patrol has 5-8 boys at every campout! "Temptations for adults to step in ..." is not true. Currently, our SPL is a 15 years old Life who has 5 ASPLs to help him run the troop. There are 5 ASMs stand in the back and watch! Last night, the troop meeting got rowdy, but they got the troop together! They even lecture themselves! The key is to get to know your packs and with the PLC develop a good program and stay the course! Of course, a smaller troop can ask the larger troop to advertise for them,ie. encourage the cubs to look at different troops instead of follow the den leader. Advertise your expertise, be it pack-packing, car-camping, hiking, sailing, canoeing, or whatever! Concentrate on the den leader and his/her son! Finally, ask the folks who chose not to join for feedback! I did that and learned that during the first year that I had the recruiting task, the parents who turned away from our troop found that 1) we were unorganized (not knowing that it is the way that boy-run troop are run) 2) felt that no one in our troop cared enough to talk to them (the visiting parents just stood there)! 3) the older boys were "distanced" and ignored the visiting cubs! I took the feedback and worked with our boys and adults to change accordingly! Recruiting is tough work, but most importantly, it is work! When a troop decides that they don't need to ... they will not get the recruits. After 1-2 seasons, the troop will hurt! If the troop is not growing, then the committee needs to look at its operation, recruiting effort, program, and starts to plan for getting new blood! It is very easy to "wooooo" new den leader(s) who are excited about leadership position, but be careful, this is a double edge sword! YIS, 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Hey Greg, The official requirement as printed on the Boy Scout Application is as follows: "Parent Information. Your son can be a Scout if he is 11 years old (or has earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, or has completed the fifth grade and is at least 10 years old), but has not reached age 18." Webelos has no requirement that the Webelos has to earn his Arrow of Light by Jan or February of his 5th grade year; as a matter of fact, there are some Web Dens that I know cross over in April. Once he finished fifth grade (and at least 10 years old) or he is 11 years old, then he can join a troop without an arrow of light. If the rest of his den crosses over and he is 11 then he too can join the troop without the arrow of light. A simple answer to your question is "yes" he can remain a Webelos until he finishes the 5th grade, but I hope that his whole den remains with him or he'll be one lonely Webelos. 1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

EaglePete and others, if you are planning to have a workshop, here is the ultimate workshop! http://www.derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=1408 . Ours is not as quite involved and well equipped, but it gets the job done! All 70 cars this year (and the last four years) race finished the race and the top 1st and 40th cars are separated by .15 sec, the 1st and 20th cars are separated by a mere .104 sec, and the top 10 cars are separated by .07 sec! The excitement in the boys are what we are after! By their reactions and cheers this past Friday, our pinewood committee have done our jobs! 1Hour

SpongeBob ... do what I did! I put together the rules for the derby according to what the Pack has been followed and have the committee agrees to and adopts. I used the format from Virtual Leader site http://www.geocities.com/~pack215/pinewood.html to model the rules. Now, we run strictly by it and no one has any questions! We change them as needed. It's not the pack committee, but the pinewood derby committee which is a sub-committee of the pack! We have not changed any of our rules for two years when we allowed NylOil II to be used if applied appropriatey. Our rules are set for regular cub's race and our Open race. Next year, I'm going to propose the addition of the Outlaw Division where there are only 3 rules: 1) 5 oz max 2) gravity driven 3) 7" length. All else ... goes! 1Hour ps: Sorry Gonzo ... didn't mean to hijack the thread! Wish you had let me know earlier ... I would have pointed you to the Derbytalk.com site earlier as well as provide you with some tips and tricks that would make your son's car more competitive. I'm glad that it turned out great for your son! As for my Tiger, we're happy! What's great is that my tiger den almost swept the Tiger division taking 4 out of the top 5 places in Tiger and 7 of the top 10 places in Tiger (out of 20 Tigers). We will go after speed next year ... so he proclaimed! As for my car, it took 1st in the Open Race where several fathers and I have been competing against each other for several years now! It has been a great rivalry! Cheers.

Gonzo, ... now your son will need to spin a lot of graphites in! Lots of graphites! Good luck! 1Hour ps: My Tiger finish 3rd in his rank tonight. He was one happy Tiger!

If it were in our troop, the first thing that I would have done is raising the YPT issue! The gentleman apparently has the tendency for violence! Youth Protection bell rings loudly in my ears ... not to mention PPT (parent protection as well!). I agree with Ed; however, I would have other standby just in case he erupts into a rage, which by the account, the tendency is there! 1Hour

So, Michelle, what's wrong with paying more than one visit to the troop? The 1st one can be an information gathering and the next is to observe and partake in the activities? If you want to do information only sesson with your den or other dens, then why not ask other troops within the proximity of your pack to partake as well? This way you can have a "Troops Night!" Remember, your Webelos are shopping for themselves and not as a den! When Webelos come to visit our troop, an ASM or our SM takes the parent aside to talk to them about the troop and about scouting. Our SPL or his designee takes the boys aside first to talk to them about our troop and scouting and then leads them to join the activities. What the boys really like is when that older scout sits down on the floor with them and become part of their den! I usually advise them to visit more than once; however, if they do it as a den, the troop would appreciate the heads-up so that they can make provision to handle the den. One or two at a time unexpectedly doesn't bother the plan. 1Hour