Old_OX_Eagle83

First let me say Its great to see a scout posting here. Ok, Ill admit I didnt read your entire post, but Ill take a stab at your question. Just a small suggestion, whenever communicating its best to stick to the bare minimal facts required to convey your message. A shorter, more direct, post would have gotten more replies. In as far as the patrol, I agree with your Troop Committee, the patrol needs split. For the patrol method to be effective the group ideally needs to be 6-8 scouts. In as far as getting elected, that decision will mostly be based on the type of scout you have been, and what you have done to date. A brief, and simple, statement on why you would like to be Patrol Leader and what youd like to accomplish is a good idea. As far as how to run the patrol, thats covered very well in the handbook. Scouting for Boys would also be a good resource, if a bit dated in some respects. In short, the patrol method, as published, it tried and true. Good luck, it sounds like youre one squared away scout, well on your way to becoming the type of man your parents will be proud of.

A agree about the OA trail crew opportunities, they are one of the few things the OA is getting right these days. National needs to again restore the OA to its place as BSA Honor Camper Society, and put in back under the National Camping Committee, and let it again become a vibrant, rewarding, part of BSA but thats another topic entirely.

Backpacking with it, no. We always walked into our camps, as the ranger didnt allow vehicles in camp, and if we werent at camp we were on a farm, or wooded lot of a friend. How far did we carry our gear, not more than a mile or two. We hiked, but didnt backpack in the era. Later in my scouting experience, with the same troop, we did backpack, but our gear had changed somewhat. As a two-time Philmont backcountry participant, and hiker with over 500 miles of marked trails under his belt, I can say that what I described is not backpacking gear, lol. My point was, most troop camping is not high adventure, and making due with minimal gear saves money, teaches scouts how to be resourceful, reinforces basic scoutcraft skills, and provides great leadership growth opportunities.

SSScout, your on to something here. When I first joined scouts my troop didn't have any fancy gadgets. Our tents were floorless, three wall canvas army surplus tents. Our tent stakes railroad spikes, out mallet a bowling pin. We cooked over a real fire with an old grill grate held up by 4 bricks. Our dinning fly was draped across a rope tied between two point, trees or poles we lashed together. We lashed our flag pole, or ran a rope over a tree limb for it. Our cookware was cast offs from home. Raingear was as often as not garbage bags, and we sure were not wearing "performance fabric", and "ultra lite hikers". Water went in milk jugs. Our patrol boxes were long wooden military ammo boxes with rope handles, slung two by two, across our walking sticks, that were not bought in a scout shop. I had not realized just how different things are now, I'm not sure they are better ...

a few times a year, not often enough. In contrast to when I was a youth member, I can only recall three times our gear was driven to our camp site in a decade of camping.

Theres some confusion here between who is responsible to make sure the CoH is put on, and who may ran the CoH. The Committee is charged with making sure the courts are conducted, and at appropriate intervals. The committee is not charged with actually conducting the program, although they could. Were talking about a Boy Scout troop here, and the boys should be running a significant part of the program. Id rather attend a poorly planned, and poorly executed, boy ran program any day . However, with proper coaching, and support, boy ran need not equate to poorly planned and executed.

Rather, Id say is BSA being forced to regulate the fun out of Scouting? My answer, yes, but its not a matter of choice. How do we counter this, the same as always. Get on the page with your charter org, committee, and parents, and use your best judgment as a group. Read what BSA publishes carefully, the majority of it is Guidelines, not rules; the distinction is an important one.

Yep, time to call the bluff. None of the lame duck bills will go through at this point without major concessions in the way of riders. The lame duck measures that would pass, still will pass later on, possibly with fewer concessions later. In as far as the Bush tax cuts they didnt benefit anyone who needed assistance, only the wealthy. Its time to recover that lost revenue, and retool tax relief to actually benefit those who need the break.

You hit the nail on the head. "But I do believe you are right even in da secular sense. There is no sense of honor anymore. This of course is most noticeable in politics, which was always a bit honor-deprived. But it used to be that there were certain lines a fellow wouldn't cross at least in public. You'd see folks present their argument in da best light, but they wouldn't lie. You'd see folks do their best to get legislation through, but they wouldn't try to use procedural work-arounds or manipulate da process. That was a matter of honor, particularly in the Senate. Now "winning" or "scoring points" seems to mean more." In my opinion where things went wrong is when we started to place value in perception, rather than truth. Each of us knows who and what we are, and when that true self becomes something you can be proud of, you have honor. The set of rules you live by to be able to have that pride in your true-self makes you honorable. When a person takes pride in how they make others see them, it is not a measure of the true-self, just an illusion. It has been said that you can take everything away from a man but his honor, and that is why we swear by it.

I hear ya, the endless cycle of boys coming and going to make having a well run troop very difficult. However, let me pose a few questions: 1. Is all that time building a boy up to just see him move on a waste, or is it training for success in life? 2. Are there more lessons in failure, or success? 3. Is there a more potent motivator then overcoming adversity? The first time a bird spreads its wings to fly, it crashes to earth, often painfully. The parent picks up the bird, pushes it to the brink again, and urges it to flight. This process may need repeated many times, but in the end an Eagle takes flight. That success gives the Eagle the courage needed to be prepared for life. However, the true satisfaction belongs to the one who dusted that young man off, and pushed him to his limit, allowing him to realize his potential. Sure, the grizzled old SM gives a sigh of weariness with each new group of crossovers, but he rises to the occasion. It is in such a way that we are challenged, our limits pushed, and we grow. Sometimes we fail, and crash to earth , sometimes painfully. The difference is we know what we are capable of, and pick ourselves up.

Theres nothing wrong with doing it on your own, its just more work  First Aid and Wilderness Survival are good choices for first year scouts, fun and ones the scouts can use toward advancement. Swimming would be nice, but that requires BSA Lifeguards, and a place to swim.

Council takes these matters one at a time and makes decisions based on the full facts. At times events are not black and white. Exceptions are few, and only made after very careful evaluation.

"Anybody who ignores BSA policy, procedures or guidelines (and the Insignia Guide certainly qualifies as an official statement of BSA policies) is running their own Scouting program -- not the BSA Scouting program. Everyone who signed an adult application pledged to abide by BSA rules and regulations -- if you can't do that (and you're not one of those whose signature means nothing), then you should do the honorable thing and resign." Although the scout shirt, and placement of insignia upon it, is regulated by national council, the CO has control over everything else ... hats included. I recall in the 70's our co approved straw cowboy hads as the units uniform hat.

MoosetheItalianBlacksmith, I hear ya, but the point was making is removing all unnecessary insignia makes the uniform more field friendly. I certainly agree there is a value in wearing different awards, event patches, and recognitions, as they do draw attention, and this can be used to get scouts, and scouters, interested in different parts of the program. Ive been registered in scouting, in one way or another, for 33 years, serving in positions in every type of unit, and holding positions at every level of scouting, this give me a wealth of uniform items I can use to get people interested various program elements. However, I dont clutter a uniform, and go absolute minimal in the field. Maintaining multiple uniforms helps with this.

Faith, practice, and belief systems are personal choices. None of us have the answers, all we can do it follow our own faith and support others choices, even if we don't understand them. Life is a journey of discovery.

Won't happen

Welcome back, I'm sure there will be more than enough to keep you busy.

desertrat77, Oscar De La Rente made our uniforms prissy, and they still are, I'd love to see the return of uniforms made to stand up to field wear. I troll ebay and thrift stores as well

Some of the footwear issue is personal choice, some common sense. Personally, I dont find athletic shoes in the least comfortable. Typically athletic shoes are loose, provide poor support, and do not wear well. I find the correct footwear choice is important. I own several pairs of boots, ranging from loggers to ultra light hikers. I also own river shoes, sandals, hard soled mocs, and even a few pair of good o work and western boots, lol. We all practice leave no trace, but all trails are not all smooth level easy walking surfaces. Trails in this region can, and will contain mud, wet clay, sand, gravel, briers, needle, thistle, poison ivy-sumac-oak, sharp shale, fallen limbs. Inclines can be quite steep, wading creeks is common, sink holes, and deadly drop offs are often very near trails. We have all types of nasty critters with fangs, stingers, spines, ect. Barbed wire, yea, sometimes it can be at trail edges. Athletic shoes will get you hurt, these are not garden paths. As far as barefoot, its against BSA policy for several good reasons. Being prepared is an important part of scouting (This message has been edited by Old_OX_Eagle83)

Deaker, were you a scout as a youth? Im not sure what exposure/experience, youve had in the Boy Scout program. I assume by your comments you have gone through wood Badge, and thats admirable, but you want to be sure you have solid real-world Boy Scout leader experience before putting yourself forward for NYLT staff. I applaud your decision to step up, just make sure this is the right time, and youre ready. With both programs, Wood Badge and NYLT, the CDs typically will hand pick the staff. Its never too early to let it be known that youre willing to help out. Rarely have I seen an offer of assistance passed on.

Can I make a suggestion? Do not use the word, or set the tone, of a graduation. A graduation is the end in the mind of a child. Rather, say promotion! Mike you have earned a promotion to Bear; John you are now promoted to The Arrow of Light Patrol; Bill you are promoted to Boy Scout. Promotion sets a better tone, youll have better retention.

> This is a common part of Camporee and Summer Camp competitions in most councils. The uniform is your scouting resume, and should be assembled correctly. As much as many of us may have things we would change about what insignia goes where, we dont get to make our own rules. As far as uniform police, I gently point the youth in the correct direction while praising the accomplishment in question. Adults are a different story, I kindly point out whats incorrect, choosing a private moment. If its a big thing, and they keep doing it, I flag them as someone who is not a team player, and not with the program. Its good to know what to expect from a scouter before tapping them for position, and recommending/approving them for recognition. The uniform is your scouting resume, show pride and put your best foot forward. You can only make one first impression.

You have the correct idea jrush. However, I wonder just how much of the bling needs to be on the uniform? I thought my children to field strip the uniform, I do the same. In the end all the uniform really needs is CSP, unit numbers, position, rank, and the already sewn on Nation and BSA id; all else is fluff. Pins, neckers, name tags, sashes, slides, medals, OA insignia, jambo insignia, knots, temp insignia, strip and ring enhancements, and jambo insignia, are all optional .

The uniform is designed for the field, but it is not a good base layer. I encourage showing pride, and esprit de corps, by wearing the uniform whenever possible, but common sense has to rule the day. I live in the Ohio river valley and understand all too well. Field uniform is also referred to as Class A uniform shirt and leather shoes. I was doc'd points when our new unit commissioner did his uniform inspection because I had tennis shoes on... Like you said the UC was new, but that doesnt make him wrong: Shoes. Leather or canvas, neat and clean. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34283.pdf Personally, I dont like seeing athletic shoes with the uniform, most of em look like a rainbow exploded. Beyond that, athletic shoes are not good camp/outdoor shoes. (This message has been edited by Old_OX_Eagle83)

None of the newer uniforms iron well, and they all wrinkle easy. Stay away from the evil polyester stuff. Call it what you like, supplex, or whatever, still polyester. Wears poorly, and melts. I always iron my shirts before wear, or packing, even if just going to camp. Pants I iron if the occasion is dress, or they need it. I dont iron shorts, or socks. For dress events I do iron the undershirt, polish the shoes and belt, and clean my buckle. A scout is clean