Old_OX_Eagle83

I want to address the comment on “unfamous Eagle Scoutsâ€Â. As scout volunteers we tend to put forward legendary Eagles, such as Armstrong, and Spielberg, as role models; I question if this is a wise choice. These two gentlemen are sure success stories, where scouting unquestionably played a role in who they would become. I’ve met both gentlemen, they are amazing, but no less so than thousands of other successful Eagles you’ll likely never hear of, or even know are eagles. I’ve met brother eagles who are priests, pastors, and monks, devoting lives to service to god and man, never seeking fame. I don’t know how many eagle scout vets I’ve met, and how many parents, and spouses, of fallen soldiers who told me their loved one was an Eagle Scout. Eagles are in boardrooms, making ethical business decisions every day. Eagles are in our classrooms shaping the minds of tomorrow, in are homes raising children on scouting values, and in our meeting halls guiding the next generation of scouts. Eagles are everywhere, in the background, living Scouting Values, and changing the world, one act at a time. The question is how do we define success, and I have the answer, just the way BSA intends: Mission Statement The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. [TABLE=align: center] [TR] [TD]Scout Oath[/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD]Scout Law[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]On my honor I will do my best To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.[/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD]A Scout is: [TABLE=align: center] [TR] [TD]Trustworthy Loyal Helpful Friendly Courteous Kind[/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD]Obedient Cheerful Thrifty Brave Clean Reverent[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Vision Statement The Boy Scouts of America will prepare every eligible youth in America to become a responsible, participating citizen and leader who is guided by the Scout Oath and Law. For Arrowmen I’d add: Become a servant leader, not only devoting yourself to unselfish service, but by example, inspiring others to give cheerful service. “Unfamous Eagles†are the ones you want to use s role models.

Basement, assuming the youth understood his duties, was trained, and supported, and his performance has been that egregious, he should not be given credit for his office time. The experience should be used as a growth opportunity, and he should work with his scoutmaster on understanding his failings, and how to overcome them. Personally, I’d assign a project to help him learn the lessons he’s being coached on, and if successful, give him credit toward advancement.

Why do the scouts want to spit into two patrols; before anything else is done this questions needs answered. BTW, an earlier post got it backwards. Your scouts are one patrol, that happens to be the only patrol your troop currently has. Patrols should not act as one troop. A troop is made up of patrols, a troop is not divided into patrols. A patrol can function as six scouts, but 100% of those scouts better make every outing. If you elect a SPL & ASPL, how will the patrols have enough scouts to function? Honestly you need 4-6 more scouts to split. The big question remains, why do the scouts want to do this?

Yes, I recall Pack starting, or taking an active role, in some similar discussions J However, I will comment on one thing. Someone commented that after being a scouter for 10 years Wood Badge would be of no benefit, to quote Sherman T. Potter, “horse hockeyâ€Â. I asked the same question for years, and after 25 years not only leaned a few new things, and got my fires stoked again, but I also got a whole lot more efficient. I now spend 25% of the time and effort of the things I was doing before, and have a better end result. I used to be a Bear

Adult uniform is always a hot topic. Like most here I have a few pet peeves: Patches worn in the wrong location. Take the time to figure out where things go. More than one temp patch hung on the right pocket … really, can’t you just choose one? Patches attached by safety pin, tape, or Velcro. Take the time to sew it on. Outdated insignia, meaning: Council Strips or lodge flaps from dead councils or lodges; office patches from prior offices; loops from the wrong registration; incorrect unit numbers, ect. Uniforms in poor repair, or poorly cleaned. Yep it gets dirty, and works, but can be washed, sewn, and even ironed. Although I understand charter orgs can choose for units to not use optional uniform parts the replacements should be appropriate. Basketball shorts, Pippi Longstocking socks, white socks, and neon colored athletic shoes are not suitable replacements. Sport team logo worn anywhere on, or with, the uniform. Wearing someone else’s uniform shirt, for any reason. People wearing awards they did not earn, or patches from events they did not attend … this one really ticks me off. Now the big one: anyone who does not respect the uniform, isn’t proud of what they’ve accomplished, the heritage the uniform represents, and doesn’t understand that how they wear their uniform reflects on all members of the scouting movement. Adult advancement exists for a reason, and you should be proud of your service and accomplishments. However, we should use our uniforms to encourage, and excite the youth about the program, not upstage them. I joined scouting in 1975, and could put enough insignia on my uniforms to look like a South American dictator, but choose not to. Everything we do has a purpose, so too does each piece of insignia; carefully choose what to wear on your uniform based on what you intend to accomplish. Back to Gilwell

I try to always be respectful of all religious organizations, but in this case, BSA is better off not being associated with Southeast Christian. Scouts there should be encouraged to either find a new charter org for the entire unit, or find new units.

To much electronics, to little outdoor activity. Also, to little face time, and to much facebook.

Clearly there needs to be one standard, and BSA has gotten confused in recent years, moving gold ahead of silver in recent years . However, I don’t think the designation of National/Regional as gold, and Council/District as silver is incorrect. National is not a higher division of scouting, merely a support structure for the councils/Districts.

Yes sir, I can say for a fact it has been done. Supporting scouting scouting is a factastic thing, buying a knot is not.

Commissioner is the oldest office in scouting, carrying a very proud heritage of service that is unmatched by any scouting group. However, in recent years the corps has gotten a bad reputation due to people plugging names into a roster to meet a metric. This metric meeting has led to the corps being populated by scouters who want to be active on paper only, and those who want to put on a wreath and silver loops and strut around acting important; this is frustrating for those who truly want to serve. There is a solid group of skilled and knowledgeable scout volunteers who will go to any length to give you the support to make your program succeed; they are the real Commissioners. This summer I’ll be rotating out as SM, and returning to the commissioner corps for the 4th time. I’ve served three prior stints as a Commissioner (over my 25 years as a scouter), including Unit Commissioner, Round Table Commissioner, and ADC in charge of Commissioner Training. I’ll be serving the charter org where I earned my eagle, the troop I reorganized, the crew I co-founded, and the pack that put my feet on the scouting trail as a cub. You better bet I’ll give it 110%, providing exactly what the unit leaders, committees, and charter org request of me. I assure you my service will not be on paper only, but I will take pride in wearing the wreath of service. Back to Gilwell

Regardless of what decision is made, continue on exactly as we are. What's the big deal?

This is something needs needs looked at again. OA selection is no longer much of an honor, and many of those elected are not the "good scout/camper role models" the program was deisgned to promote. Additionaly, many elected are not old enough, or mature enough to be of much use to the order. BSA has destroyed this core program, and I can't fathom why.

This is something needs needs looked at again. OA selection is no longer nuch of an honor, and many of those elected are not "good scout/camper role models" the program was deisgned to promote. Additionaly, manhy elected are not old enough, or mature enough to be of much use to the order. BSA has destroyed this core program, and I can't fathom why.

Everything is personal taste; and yes I've seen velcro used. Honestly, I don't care for it, but I don't like eggs either ... so what I've found three ways to sew on rank a pocket: 1. Remove the pocked from the shirt, sew on the patches, and sew the pocket back on. 2. Sew the patch on by hand from inside the pocket(what I do). 3. Sew through the pocket; sewing it closed. Here's the actual issue with velcro for ranks. The velcro, or velcore, has to be sewn on the pocket, and its counterpart sewn on the rank patch ... that's like sewing on two patches ... and with each new rank you have to sew the core/cro on the new rank patch ... this isn't less work. You could use badge magic ... but did you do less work, nope. I just don't see this as a time saver for rank patches. There are other applications of this for those who wear a few different hats. My opinion, just sew em on ... the scout busted hump earning the rank, the least we can do is properly sew on the patch.

I guess I sew on one more patch Thanks for helping me see this the right way guys. It's amazing how we change with age, as boys we try to find reasons to wear more on our uniforms, as adults we look for ways to wear less.

Thanks for pointing that out AZMike, sorry Moose

Very good post DeanRx, you've put things in prospective in a very efficient manner.

Some people can't see the forest for the trees. Uniform polices can't be compared to polices designed to ensure the health, and safety of program participants. BSA clearly views these things differently, ask any SE how he would react to a uniform violation, and a case of scout abuse ... sophomoric conversation no, instructive discussion, yes. You need to put your focus on the aims of scouting, and while absolutely ensuring the health, safety, and well being of all program participants, do what it takes to accomplish those aims. An image that I always recall at such times is a venerable scouter rising from the table during s heated discussion, picking up a scout handbook, flexing it, and saying "it's flexible, just like the program". In my time in scouting I've seen countless changes to rules, polices, and requirements, but not in scouting's Aims or Methods. How would change ever happen if no one tried anything new, never did things a different way? We are allowed to think for ourselves here, even encouraged to do so. Oh, program deviation, including uniform, is supported by BSA policy, there are even procedures for it /boggle. Loosen the collar a bit, it's good for you.

I know this is a somewhat dated post, but I think I have something of value to add here. IHMO your looking at this the wrong way, the impression I get is you see your scouts as puzzle pieces, and are trying to fit them into the frame BSA has provided. In my opinion you're putting the cart before the horse, and you and your scouts could greatly benefit from putting thoughts of elections and offices aside for a short time. Likely the group you have is more like the Little Rascals, or Our Gang should be approached as such. Start with why these young men joined scouts, likely to have fun. Start with fun, a simple question, "alright where do you guys want to go, and what do you want to do there?" Ok, the stage is set, give them lots of leash. Watch and learn, leaders will emerge, someone will end up as official note taker, someone will end up being in charge of gear, another food, ect. Have a couple other adults to help you mentor, ask a few pointed questions here and there, the offices will fill, the scouts will grow and mature, and they will begin respecting your input. Simply, don't force things, let them happen, and let them fail. The fancy titles, and cool patches can come later, This is just my two cents.

Moose Tracker, as he often does, nailed this one. The point is to not turn anyone away, exclude them, based on faith, or belief system. This is one of the wisest policy choices BSA has ever made, here we can set the example, show our young adults not only how people of varied beliefs can coexist, but benefit from their varied strengths and diversity. It is no accident that diversity is a required Wood Badge ticket. Here our children learn how to form a strong team, despite our differences, and perform at the highest levels not in spite of our diverse nature, but because of it. If only the whole world would take this page from the scout play book. Yes, we do have those who want to see scouting as a christian organization, but it isn't, and never has been. Believing a cloud is a dragon does not make it so.

It's a temp patch with a odd choice of shapes. The patch is work centered on the right uniform pocked. Although I'm a thread head, I've never understood why we have this patch. The card is enough, especially considering knife and ax use, as well as fire building are typically done in activity uniform.

This is a sensitive topic,and I think it's important that we respect everyone's opinion. However, I feel I need to point out two things. 1. The Uniform Guide is simply a collection of guidelines, not a code, or rule book. 2. The scout program is flexible, allowing us quite a bit of freedom in achieving the "Aims of Scouting", via the "Methods of Scouting". If a small bit if shiny metal causes scouts, and/or scouters, to fully embrace the program and become good citizens, with strong values, who will lead us into a brighter tomorrow; then I hope many young men will present these pins to their mentors,and the mentors will wear the pin with pride, where other scouts will see it, and strive to place another beside it.

I'm returning to commissioner service, and while putting together a uniform a question occurred to me. Why do we wear the "trained Strip" with the "Commissioner's Arrowhead Honor", being trained is a requirement for the arrowhead honor after all. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I have a Eagle Coach who is the former SM. I don't feel having someone with that degree of expertise in the eagle process on hand takes a thing away from my role as SM. However, with this having been said, my unit is large, averaging 35-40 scouts over the past several years. I have ASM advisers for each patrol, the junior officers, the Chaplain Aide, OA Rep, and Quartermaster. I also have an ASM high Adventure adviser, an ASM "Big Trip" adviser, ASM water sports adviser, and ASM leave no trace adviser. I also have an ASM of instruction to ride heard on instruction of eagle required merit badges, and make sure scouts always have someone qualified to work with. "I'm a strong believer in the more hands the lighter the load". The idea in involving all these adults is not to do it for the scout, but to ensure there is an adult expert available for one on one mentoring when and where the officer/scout desires to interact with a qualified adult. Each SM does things differently, I recruit, train, and mentor a qualified corps of adult leaders, and serve as adviser/mentor to the SPL and PLC, and serve on as one on the unit's "Key Three".

Morartbrau, I don't suggest doing a unit call out. Not only would a unit call out not be as much fun for the scout, pleae remember the Order of the Arrow program is a lodge program, not a troop program. A troop should not put on OA program any more then it should run a patrol outting.