Oldscout448

I'm with Mike S here.# 19 I did the ceremony 5 or 6 times and coached it 25-30 times so I "get" the symbolism. BUT I fear that none, or very very few, of the brotherhood candidates will

Shoot, I had so much fun that when I turned 18 I turned Explorer just so I could run around in the woods like an Indian for three more years But never sold popcorn Badges were nice but not a big deal A lot of campouts we didn't do one "scoutish" thing. Learned a little, made some very good friends, wish I could do it again

I can give out no details here, but the service is a few days and the troop of course will there in full force, what would be a way for the scouts to show empathy?

Just read it twice, I can see what they are trying to do. I like the explanations as the ceremony progresses rather than at the end. But the style is so not Longfellow. where is the cadence, the flow? and where o where is the..O of the B?

Ox, I am whole hearted agreement with what you said about the OA members returning to serve in their respective troops. Could you go into a bit more detail how camp fits into the Order? Our council camp is a 4 -5 hour drive away and plays very little role in anything the chapter does. and yes this is off topic, I don't mind. Oldscout

In a strange way I feel sorry for the scout who got in without being elected. He cheated (or his Mom shoved him into cheating ) and thus cheapened the Order to the point of meaninglessness. I guess all he can do now is refuse to wear the sash or flap if he wishes to retain an iota of honour or honesty This was a screw up on so many levels

There is also Grey Owl Indian crafts if you want a "log" drum. They also sell kits for "walking" drums

Stosh, Thanks for the response, for what it's worth, I was faced with this nearly exact situation two years ago, except I was the only one in the troop who knew this guys history, I didn't throw him out, or call the police. I DID tell the SM and we DID watch him like hawks. all day long. Oldscout

Stosh, bigotry is defined as the complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from ones own. Maybe I'm just slow this morning, but reading this thread I don't think we are concerned with his beliefs or opinions. I am concerned with his actions.or in this case past actions and how they reflect on scouting. One thing that is not clear to me was this a scouting function or a church function that scouts happened to be working at? I think the man should steer clear of scouts having disqualified himself to the nth degree, but he should be able to attend a church dinner

OA ordeal 1978, it was a clear October night about 45 degrees, we bedded the candidates down, and in the morning we were one short. Counted 'em again, still one short. Searched the trail, then the whole area, nothing. Sent back for more people, and the list of names. While the advisers did a roll call, and found that it was a scouter missing, we found the flattened leaves where the missing candidate had been, but still no sign of him. Calling his name, about 25 of us formed a search line and swept the hill top north-south, then east-west. Still nothing. Other scouts checked every building in camp without results. We were getting past concerned and into scared. Do we call the police? or his wife? About then someone got a bright idea " Check and see if his car is still here." We ran for the parking area to check. It was and guess who was sleeping in it! Some how he made his way about half a mile off the hill to his van in the wee hours of the morning, because he was getting a bit cold, and the van had a heater.

Ordeal night tonight!! Possible thunderstorms predicted. My youngest son is going for his Ordeal. Doesn't get any better than this folks.

As a result of an ice storm last month, our local campsite if full of broken pine limbs, some downed poplars, and a dead oak or two. We are planning a Saturday cleanup but some of the Scouters are sure that we can not use full or 3/4 axes to limb the trunks, unless we rope the area off. They plan to use chain saws for the adults and bow saws for the scouts. This seems to me to be a rare and perfect time to teach the older scouts the reason the bigger axes exist they say it's in G2SS somewhere.... but can't find it to show me. Is it really there? or somewhere else? I can't seem to find it anywhere

have been tempted a time or two

can;t help but wonder how many scouts came on the next campout. I am sure if I usurped the PLCs authority, then undermined the SPL in front of the scouts as you describe, I would be told to my face at the next PLC, if I wanted to do their job, fine go right on ahead. I was now in charge of campout location, menus, duty rosters, advancement sign offs, etc. I would then be handed a stack of POR patches that had just been torn off sleeves, as they walked out the door 17 and 16 year old eagle scouts who believe (rightly ) that it is THEIR troop, having spent a third of their young lives in it, resent having it stolen from them. they resent even more being treated like cub scouts again.

Can't answer for anyone else, but I sure as heck am!

I don't mind if the scouts whisper to each other for a while after taps, as long as they don't disturb the scouts who want to sleep. Only had one real problem campout, a tent of four scouts had three sugar hyped, mountain dewed, chatterboxes who were still going strong at midnight despite repeated calls to shut up from other scouts and adults, About quarter to one the SM got up, got dressed, walked to the noisy tent and announced a three scout night hike starting now! The three scouts walked a mile out of camp then back as the SM followed them in his car keeping them in his headlights. He told them next time it would be two miles, if that didn't work he could try four. camp was very still and silent after taps for months afterward

Special times for us dads, treasure them, they come but once

Final update: OA election night in scoutson#4 's new troop, he's in!!! whoo hoo! Must call older sons tell them to clear decks, for the Ordeal ceremony in a few months! Now deep breath, must focus on working with the ceremonies team as an coach, not a dad. ( Took the job a few weeks back) sst3rd is there a forum for team trainers/ coaches ? Oldscout

Sounds very much like the Troop I was in back in the 60s, in Maryland. Hmm Your classes sound very much like the ones I used to teach. I wholeheartedly agree with your opinion that a patrol on a AT hike perhaps needs one hand ax ( I prefer my old estwing) but just cannot imagine going into the woods without my knife. If I somehow got lost and stuck for the night, I can make cordage, a debris shelter, even a fire drill, but I need a knife to do these things. I guess the Indians could do it with a sharp rock, but that's well past my skill level.

Not knowing the people in your lodge, I cannot say if this a good idea or not, but how about telling them " Our chapter team only does Ceremonies after dark, if you want it in the daylight have your lodge team do it."

Well, if I wanted to play Captain Queeg, the by the book nutcase in The Caine Mutiny I guess I could fail your scout. But a boy like that is more than welcome in my troop anytime! Oldscout

Quemadmodum gladius nemunem occidit: occidentis telum est. A sword never killed anybody: it is a tool in the killers hand. Seneca the Younger I echo what jblake said, I've been using a Western make Boyscout sheath knife, alongside a swiss army tinker for over 40 years now and I find it very useful for splitting out fire boards, flipping small pancakes, once had to cut a splint with it. BUT there are some scouts who have ( how do I say this?) anger issues?, emo problems? fear of being disrespected? who I would not trust with a dull stick. A SM's first worry is the safety of the boys in his charge, it is much simpler to place a blanket ban on things that can be used as weapons, than to decide, on a case by case basis, who is safe and who is not. How would you instantly evaluate the new crop of cubs that bridge every spring? Perhaps you might propose allowing the older scouts to carry fixed blades say 14 years old and up? Just patrol leaders? OA members? (with a beaded sheath) with SM approval of course. All it takes is one scout doing one stupid thing and the call goes up to do something, do anything to prevent it from happening again. One troop in my area refuses to allow scouts to chop wood anymore, because someone had an accident years ago. In fact I attended one IOLS where they would not teach the adults anything that had to do with axes, too dangerous they said. Sad but true.

That is the purpose of ItOLS: To teach indoor volunteers how to sign off Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class in about 20 hours, the same number of hours as most "first year" summer camp programs. Baloney, OldScout, Baloney! Baden-Powell had the same problem 100 years ago. So he designed Wood Badge for 20th century indoor volunteers who spent most of their life at a desk, as a week-long immersion course in how to think like woodsmen. Wood Badge for the 21st century teaches indoor volunteers that success formula "leadership skills" they can use in their life at a desk, are the mountaintop experience of Scouting. In my old troop First class took about 100 hours, in my sons current troop I would say half of that. As to your second point I am some what confused, are you saying it is the SM fault or current WB fault or both?

I also was in a "hiking and camping" troop, and earned eagle in '76. Thinking back on the 25 or so eagles from different troops I knew pretty well back then, I would say it was a 50-50 mix. One couldnt light a fire with a whole box of kitchen matches,one could light one with his scout knife, a lump of quartz,and some cattail fluff. It just depended on how well you needed to know a skill before you were signed off. In my troop for example it was not enough to tell my PL how to sharpen an ax. He showed me how, then handed me the dullest one I had ever seen and told me to bring it back when I thought it was sharp. It took me 2 hours and three tries, but I never forgot how. He did this with almost everything. I was angry with him at the time, but when I was a PL and had to teach those very same skills I blessed him for it. Other troops all you needed to do was listen to some summer camp CIT mumble about it. I see pretty much the same today. Except I think the ratio is sadly 70-30 in terms of camping skills. I cannot blame most of the current crop of leaders, they try they really do, but they have spent most of their life at a desk, woodsmen (or woodswomen) are getting scarce nowadays. You can't teach what you don't know. and a weekend or two at IOLS can not replace hundreds of hours in the woods. Oldscout

I just got a look at the upcoming Ordeal schedule, the ceremony is to start at 4:00pm. So that everyone can eat dinner at 5:30. What happened to just after dark? You can see the parking lot and the dining hall from the ring in the daylight. No mysterious flickering fire and torch light? You will not even be able to see the candles at all. Our bonnets and stuff are getting old, they look ok in dim lighting but not in broad daylight. This is assured NOT to impress.imo. I'm told that everyone does it in the afternoon nowdays, Has this changed everywhere? If so I think we lost something magical just so the cooks don't have to lay out sandwiches at 9:00