Oldscout448

I can't match your resume but I was quite unimpressed with most of my IOLS instruction as well. I offered to help teach too but was told that my services were not needed.

InquisitiveScouter covered it well. I would offer only two other reasons both from personal experience in the Order. Firstly, the OA gave me ready access to SPLs and JASMs in other troops, that I could go to with my problems eg; I have a patrol leader who isn't leading. Or my troops Scoutmasters minute is taking 15 minutes! You guys ever run into this? What worked? What didn't? The 20 year old ASMs were especially helpful. Secondly, in my little chapter it was simply expected that a scout who wore the white sash would be cheerfully, enthusiastically, serving his patrol and troop. My older brothers in the order were not at all reluctant to point this out whenever and wherever needed. " Hey Allen! There's work to do, and you wear our lodge flap right? Remember what WWW means? So either get off your butt and get busy or take it off" My SM loved us because we did most of the heavy lifting in the troop. Obviously this culture of leadership in serving others won't appear overnight, but it is what every Arrowman should aspire to.

I'm trying to figure out what to do with these staffers. Could we tell Will Smith they made fun of his wife? As others have pointed out there comes a time in most people's lives, when they realize that just because someone is in a position of authority doesn't mean their always right. I learned this important lesson about age 15. Before that I probably would have stayed huddled in my lean-to. Afterwards I would have been right on the staffs heels into the dining hall. The only way they would get me to go back out would be to drag me and then hold me there . If I'm going to die in a lighting strike so are they. ( Guess I wouldn't have done very well in the Army.)

I truly appreciate your reply. Although it did irk me at the first reading. Why is he telling me things that I know full well? Things that I have both taught and lived? By the third time though perhaps I'm getting a clearer picture. I am assuming that you have experienced people using "sash and dash" as an insult. Somehow insinuating that such are less than true Arrowmen. I had absolutely no such intent In fact I debated with myself on its use in the previous post. But as I actually first heard the phrase on this very forum , don't recall ever hearing it in the lodge and it describes rather accurately the actions of the scouts so I decided to go with it. It was not intended in any way to insult or belittle the scouts or scouters who never come to any other chapter or lodge function. It may well be that they are diligently and cheerfully serving in their troop, crew, post, or pack. If so then I count them as my brother or sister in the Order. Until recently ( 2013 ?) there was an understanding that a sash with bars meant that the wearer was serving in the lodge as well as his unit. "so far as I am able" But the brotherhood Obligation is no more so that's gone. And the depressing fact remains that if no one is willing step up and serve in the chapter,, or lodge the Order will simply wither and eventually die. My sincere apologies to any I offended Mikemossin Wunachk

Now that's an interesting idea. I confess it's one that hadn't occurred to me. Probably because very few members bother to attend the ceremony unless they have a relative or close friend getting sashed. I can certainly see these changes fitting in very well in a rededication ceremony. I understand that some lodges have such on a regular basis. And props to 'em. But I'm still contending that the Ordeal ceremony's primary and overriding purpose is for the candidate/ new member. When I ask new members, the few who want to do ceremonies mind you, what aspect of the ceremony they liked or disliked, by far the most common response is " Well I really didn't understand them." We are not serving them well by making it more complex and obtuse. As a long ago performer and now a coach, I've seen the Pre, Ordeal, and Brotherhood ceremonies hundreds of times maybe a thousand, and I absolutely agree that it takes a long time to fully understand them. As an ex- ceremonialist I love the new intricacies, as an advisor who watched the 'sash and dash ' rate go from 75% to 95% in the last few years, I'm appalled. Our once robust chapter is being sustained by half a dozen 19 and 20 year olds. Without a very significant change we won't be here in a couple of years. Nearby chapters are in even worse condition. Some seem to exist only on paper.

Firstly let me say that I appreciate the link @acema606 Next I must say that I've never been so upset by any program change in my Scouting life, and that includes the ISP of the '70's! I see how the changes are intended to provide links and hidden clues to the Brotherhood and Vigil ceremonies. It's skillfully done.no doubt of it. It's absolutely dripping with symbolism. BUT, not one candidate in a hundred will notice them, much less understand them. The ceremonialists might if they've had a few years of experience. No one else. It's not unlike the hidden meaning in the counterclockwise movement of the principles in the Preordeal ceremony opposed to the clockwise movement in the Ordeal and Brotherhood ceremonies.. Except that this change actually detracts from the ceremony. The repeated short and simple conversations between the principles as the candidates enter the circle was designed to reinforce the idea that admittance to the Order was something earned not given. This flies in the face of the primary purpose of the ceremonies. They are supposed to be understandable,impressive, memorable and meaningful to the candidates . Not be a showpiece for how many references and allusions can be inserted. Nor should the candidates be told that they now understand concepts and principles that they probably don't. On a side note, the Ordeal and Brotherhood ceremonies are not one ceremony on one night separated by 6 months. No matter what J. Dunbar says. They're just not. Never have been. I've seen many changes both in the ceremonies and in the Order itself in the last 47 years. Some good some bad. But this one is is .. Words fail me. Scout like ones anyway.

challenge accepted my friend.

Anyone know where I can get a look at them?

and whiskey box ovens, buddy burner stoves, sit-upons... We stole shamelessly from the Girl Scouts!

The only time I went sorta" Patch Police" and how it turned into a paycheck About 15 years back a tiny just bridged scout came to his third troop meeting wearing a red wool jacket with a felt bull on the shoulder. Just like the one I was sporting. So during a lull in the meeting, I asked him where he got such a great jacket. It seemed his uncle had given it to him the previous weekend. I gently explained that in scouting patches told a story about what the wearer had done, as well as where he had been, and the way that patch was positioned said that he had climbed either Baldy or the Tooth at Philmont. ( I had to explain what Philmont was) Also the big patch on the back proclaimed him an Eagle. He asked if I was telling him that he had to take the patches off. I said that the decision was his but a Scout is Trustworthy. Next meeting his jacket was bare. He marched straight up to me " I'll wear ''em when I earn 'em!" Five years later at a camporee I see him again. The jacket fits him now. I look at the patches on it NESA, OA, Jambo, Philmont. " I earned them all" he said. "Of course you did"

I'm 99% certain I would have found someone else to sit on that board. Not because it irks me, just out of respect for the scout.

Being typed I can't hear the tone of your post. Nor can I judge it's intent by your facial expression. But sure seems like a cheap shot at an honest man to me.

I missed a dozen summer camps with my sons because I couldn't afford to send both of us while losing a weeks pay. Sometimes I managed to make it to the closing campfie.

For a decade or so my sons had a friendly competition for the highest mountain climbed. Mostly though I think they wanted to beat their Dads best of 11,711. A few years ago I got an photo of a smiling scoutson #1 standing in the snow, next to a sign proclaiming 18,500 ft. He was somewhere in Nepal.

" And you ain't seen nothin yet"

My mistake. Thanks for the correction.

In the interest of accuracy, here is the statement to which I believe you refer. @yknot I'm just not seeing what you seem to see. If anything It's the opposite.

Welcome! I hear ya brother, when I was an SPL many was the time that I wished I could go back to the simple life of the Quartermaster. I suspect that you are making the same mistake I did in the beginning. Trying to do it all. That's what makes patrols and patrol leaders essential in a larger troop. Properly done the PLs do 90% of the work. First question Where does the SM stand on this? Your're going to have to work together on this.. Does he, or any of the other adults have experience in a multi patrol troop? I'm not saying he should do your job for you, but a wise leader uses all the resources he has. My first recommendation would be to go visit some nearby troops with your ASPL. See how they operate, decide what might work well in your troop. What won't. What might work with some modifications.

The biggest difference in working with Richlite or Micarta is that you're basically cutting hardened glue. Chisels dull very quickly, normal hand saws are useless. I usually work it with carbide tipped blades, hacksaws. files, and silicon carbide sandpaper. 220-320-400 grit. 600-800 if I'm going for a high gloss finish. The stuff is nearly indestructible, but as for me give me highly figured Cocobolo or Desert Ironwood every time.

While I am quite certain that Qwazse doesn't require any help in this "debate", I find I cannot let your final sentence pass without comment. It's one that gets used a lot and frankly, It's insulting. The implication being that unless someone is in favor of your solution to a problem, then they are supporting the problem. The idea that Qwazse, or any of us on this forum, is supporting or complacent with child abuse of any description goes way beyond the pale. Edit: FYI I have no need whatsoever to list any qualifications (survivor, recovering alcoholic, etc) in order to give voice to my opinions. Neither does anyone else.

They didn't need to abandon the cooler. For a small percentage I would have given it a good home. Unless of course the three sixes were Iron City!

It was quite common to see the adults smoking a pipe or having a beer after dinner, when I was a tenderfoot but that was over 50 years ago. The word went around in the early '80s that we needed to set the best example we possibly could for the scouts. So no drinking and if you absolutely have to have a smoke, kindly take a hike over the hill a quarter mile away. I knew a few SMs who ignored these rules and were quietly relieved from duty as a result. One event I'll never forget happened in '79 I had to forcibly take a large knife away from a very drunk 14 year old, who was staggering around slashing at the air, while shouting challenges to all comers Seems he had discovered some of the staff's beer stash. The camp director gave them 10 minutes to pack and be off the property. So yes it happened. But less and less as time went by..

A recent National Chief came from my lodge. He wouldn't or more likely couldn't talk either. I've always wondered exactly what goes on at such high and exulted levels, guess I'll never know. Oh well, I'm much happier in the woods than in a boardroom

I feel obliged to point out that mathematically if you cut a corner off a totin chip card, which is a rectangle, the resulting irregular pentagon now has five corners. As you keep cutting off corner after corner you eventually arrive at a circle which has either no corners or infinite corners.