Oldscout448

trying to figure out how to upload the pic.

About four decades back when I had just returned from Philmont for the first time a friend gave me a small bronze pin he said he found somewhere. It looks like a philmont arrowhead about 5/16 " long but with a tiny red triangle in the center. I assumed ( oh that word!) that it was some sort of OA Vigil award and therefor unwearable by me. So I put it in a little box along with some year pins and such. Any one know what it is? Or where I should look?

At my first summer camp there was no dining hall. We cooked by patrols over open fires. So two first year scouts ( yes I was one of them) we're cooking a pound of bacon on a flat griddle, the grease built up untill it spilled over the side into the flames where it burned. We thought that was neat untill the grease fed flame licked the edge of the griddle. KA-WOOF! The griddle,grease and all the bacon was now at the bottom of a three foot column of flame. The bacon was extra crispy that morning, and it took a looooong time the get that griddle clean.

Wait, he was asked to leave? just the campout? or the troop?

Smoking was normal back in the day, most of my adult leaders were never without a pack or two on a campout. But weed or liquor was not allowed period. One dad brought a bottle of Jack on a campout, my Sm was very clear " Last thing I need is a drunk scout, second to last thing I need is a drunk scouter! The bottle goes or you do. "

As usual we are hearing only one side, that said there are very few things that anger me more than a SM acting like a dictator. Possibly because when my scoutsons #1 and #2 were in a troop which changed SMs. we had to deal with one. We spent about a year fighting the good fight, but ended up transferring to another troop in the end along with most of the older scouts, As Andy from netcommish said it is very difficult to change a troop from the bottom up. Re: demerit policy A troop can have its own rules but not when they conflict with national bsa guildlines. What this " scoutmaster" has done is way way out of bounds. The term Scoutmaster is like unto the british Schoolmaster, Is means teacher, guide, mentor. Not "Master of the scouts" with a rod of iron. The best Scoutmasters can keep order in a meeting with just a look, the good ones with a few words to the offending scout,,the not so good ones with a loud lecture, but stripping a rank for talking in a meeting? Words fail me. This is not what scouting should be, and the boys are being cheated. Worse they may think that this is the way all troops are run and just quit outright. I know I would Advice? If you cannot get the CC and the Cor to sack this guy, take your son and as many other scouts as you can and go. Sometimes all you can do is vote with your feet. Even if you can get Council to force the SM to stop stripping rank, my bet is that he will just find some other way, no PORs, no OA, KP on all campouts etc Sad to say people like this rarely change Oldscout

How about a year pin with a different colored plastic backer? Gold or pink or whatever for "special services " to the troop. If anyone asks he will have a story to tell.

Disclaimer. CFA gave scoutson #1 about $1200 in a college scholarship when he worked for them 13 years ago. And I like their waffle fries as well. As scouts we are supposed to do good turns, help other people, be friendly, helpful, etc. If we are now reluctant to do something as simple as a simple flag ceremony because someone might get the erroneous idea that we therefor espouse 100 percent of the businesses viewpoints then we are in a sorry state indeed. When I became a den leader some decades ago my old SM was still alive so I stopped by to tell him that another of his boys was "carrying on". When I asked if he had any advice for a newbie scouter he said very seriously " Do what is right for your scouts, and don't worry about what other people think" And just for giggles, my troop has been asked to help out in the presidential inauguration next January. Hoo boy

I was mentally composing my post as I read this thread. Until I got to LVAllen's. What he said. Its a flag ceremony, we are Scouts

May one ask what your Chartered Organizations policies are here? In what ways do they differ from BSAs?

Firstly I think that Stosh is quite right in thinking that the scouts should plan as much of this as possible. Give them suggestions and goals, then let them run with it. Things we have done: Stake yore claim. The scouts find a large gold colored rock and must them claim it by placing four pegs around it in a 25 foot square, one peg must be due NE. of the rock. River rescue. A scout is stuck on a raft ( a snow saucer) holding a tree with one hand. The other scouts must throw him a rope which he must tie in a beeline around himself one handed. And is them pulled to safety. Wood cutting. Must cut through a 4 inch log with the fewest number of strokes possible. Not a timed event. Hawk tossing. Yep throwing hand axes here. You need a safe range, throwing hawks,and a RSO. So might be a bit much for just one troop, but the scouts love it.

On the subject of matches, do strike anywhere matches still exist? We used to set one in a log head up and challenge the scouts to grab a hatchet and light it with one swing.

That the green one or the brown one?

Retracking: " scouts can not use lighters to light fires, stoves, or lanterns only matches. Because lighters have a liquid accelerant and the G2SS prohibits them "

Duct Tape, there is much truth in what you say. I should have gone into the reasons why I held my peace. if I may do so now 1 I would not be the craftsman I am today were it not for several very skilled people who also had a gift and passion for teaching. 2 although I am much better than I was 30 years ago when I finished my formal training, there remain things my mentors could do that I still cannot. 3 I had no idea what this mans skill level was, he may have been a total wood butcher, or a master craftsman. My point of contention with this fellow scouter was not that he was a teacher of my trade, but that he was seemingly attempting to use his position to browbeat me into conceding his point of view. Perhaps the saying should be changed to " He that can, teaches others to do." apologies Oldscout

Didnt say it. I thought it though. Amen to your last sentence. Having worked as a RSO at a father-son church camp for years, I can attest that some of the dads who think their middle name is Rambo are the only ones who truly scare me

Thats pretty much what I told him. We went a few rounds then he pulled rank by telling me he was a woodshop teacher and so knew all about sharp tools and accidents. I replied that I had been working as a professional woodworker for the last quarter century and walked off

I almost forgot this gem from a wood tools instructor at IOLS circa 2010 " Axes are too dangerous for scouts to use, so we no longer teach chopping or splitting . Now we only use a knife, saw and froe. Including the adults "

How about " the scoutmaster decides what merit badges his scouts will earn at summer camp.

Recently after a district event another scouter and I were checking the campsites. Most were fine but at one I found a titanium backpckers fork. Thanks to you and Yogi I now know what to do with it.

Stosh, is your stove the type with a little battery powered fan? I almost bought one when my trusty old 8R died. I liked the idea of not hauling fuel but I worried that the fan would malfunction at the worst time. So I ended up buying a whisperlite.

Coming from the era when all the cooking was done over a fire, and the ability to start a fire anywhere, any time and tailor it however the cook wanted it ( high hot flame for boiling, low flame for frying, coals for the dutch oven ) was the hallmark of any first class scout. We read the handbook then the fieldbook on types of woods, types of fires tipi, log cabin ,a frame ,lean-to. keyhole. I remain puzzled and saddened by todays scouts seeming inability to master firebuilding. At the last few Klondike Derbys one of the stations involves building a small fire and cooking one small pancake on it, in 30 minutes. the patrols all know this is coming, we do it year after year. They can use anything but K1 or gasoline. wax fire logs? candle stubs? pitch pine? poplar shavings from woodshop class? " Sure thing scout go ahead". Still only about half manage to pull it off. About five years ago I was watching a bunch of older scouts " building " a fire for an Ordeal ceremony. Their technique was to pile a bunch of logs in a heap, douse it with kero and hope for the best. I resisted the urge to jump in and do it for them . I suggested we needed a council type fire. They looked at me with blank puzzled expressions. and these were mostly life and eagle scouts. A what? Like a log cabin fire, but with solid layers, Oak or hickory in the lower layers, poplar on the upper two or three, and a pine tipi on the very top A log what? How do we tell oak from pine? Ummm can you show us how? So I held an unplanned class on wood id, fire building, and how to saddle notch a log. I didnt mind the teaching at all, I was just surprised that none of them from five or six different troops had ever had any training at all, in what I thought was a basic scout skill Perhaps we use stoves a wee bit too much?

I admit the OP was more of a yell that a thought, If I may clarify I have no problem with the idea of a service day or weekend. We should do more service to the community than we do. I should perhaps point out however that none of our chapters ordeals have been at a scout camp lo these last 40 years. We have been serving at a national park. We simply maintain that an Ordeal should be called an ordeal. As for the hazing about which rumours abound but it seems few witnesses can be found. It is upon us the scouters to watch for and nip in the bud, is it not? Oldscout

Agree with Resqman, we found that a group of 8 is about the max that can squeeze into a shelter in really bad weather. And since we always had scouts who hiked at different speeds, we could split into two groups of four during the day. Mice are a problem in the shelters for sure. The more sloppy hikers,the more food thus more mice. Little buffers will chew right thru your pack to get to a molecule of good faster than you would believe. My biggest frustration hiking with young Scouts is that they tend to walk with their heads down looking at their boots. Missing everything around them. We were hiking along Skyline Drive about 3 years ago when the whole line of Scouts walk under a dead pine tree with the biggest heart I've ever seen 20 feet over their heads looking down at them. Might have been and immature bald eagle. Not one of the scouts saw it no I called Sofly " Guys! Look up! In the tree!" Then they saw it, the raptor perhaps uncomfortable with such scrutiny spread his wings caught the updraft and swooped over the scouts heads, and out of sight.

In the previous thread a scouter whom I respect very much, made reference to the fact that in his lodge Ordeals are no longer called ordeals but rather " service weekends". Apparently in an effort to make them sound less hazing or ominous to the new generation of snowflakes If I recall correctly his new lodge advisor managed to somehow ram that past the LEC. Given the current PC lunacy, I can only assume that this " water everything down stupidity " will soon be at our door as well. I know the scouts pretty well and I'll bet a steak dinner that their response will be short and thoroughly unscoutlike. But it is a rare chief indeed who has the sheer nerve to tell someone 20 years his elder " No, we are not doing that. Shut up and sit down" Ok maybe not in those words, but you get the idea So I figure "my boys" are going to need support. Any ideas? Oldscout448 Ps. Do we need to change the word ordeal to service weekend wherever it occurs in the ceremonies now? Lets see... " bringing tokens of a struggle, a service weekend swiftly approching... Doesn't have the same ring to it somehow