Ohio_Scouter

Hi Lisa, Whose bright idea was it to foist the new group of scouts on you earlier rather than later in February? If it's a done deal, then you have a decision to make to accommodate the new scouts. I don't think it's fair to change any of the other scouts' plans for the February winter survival skills campout since it was well-planned out long ago. I agree with OGE. Let the new boys' parents decide whether their boys are prepared to spend the entire weekend with the older scouts, or perhaps just participate during the day on Saturday. Since the camp is local as you say, the new scout parents can pick up their boys on Saturday evening after dinner if necessary. Winter has just returned to our southern Ohio area with a low of 0 degrees F. forecast for this weekend. It will probably be significantly worse in Michigan in early February. Good luck!

Our CO donates a couple of hundred dollars per year to the Troop. Other than that, we fund-raise for all our expenses.

gwd- As you can see, the boys are maturing, and we almost missed it !

OGE has it right IMHO. Any time I hear anybody say Scouts is "gay", I just whip out my Philmont, Seabase, Northern Tier, or Yellowstone/Grand Teton white-water rafting/backpacking photos and show them what we've done lately. I also tell them that most of the guys who walked on the moon were Scouts. It seems to shut them up quickly. BTW, just got a call from one of my Eagles who said he landed a Ranger job at Philmont this summer--not too "gay" there .

Bear12, Sounds like the best possible outcome. Once again, congratulations to you and your Eagle son. I know you are very proud of him. Now, I have to get crackin' on my boy's Eagle COH, too. My keynote speaker dropped out on me due to health reasons, so I have to find a backup quickly. Good luck!

OGO, Still trying not to judge the father yet, although it's becoming more and more difficult with each bit of new information you proffer...maybe he doesn't know how to camp, who knows? Anyway, does this scout have any other adults in his family (older brother, uncle, etc.) who could accompany him on a troop campout?

One of the nicest things anyone ever said to me came from the father of a Boy Scout who thanked me for volunteering so much of my time helping his son and his buddies in our scouting program. This guy was a tradesman who had 3 kids and worked several jobs to make ends meet. He often worked nights and weekends, so he wasn't able to spend much time hiking, camping, or backpacking with the Boy Scouts, but he clearly recognized the value and benefits to his son of the time spent by other scout fathers, and he wasn't ashamed to tell me so. I was happy to do it. My son was in scouting at the time, and I planned to be there anyway, so it really wasn't any extra effort for me, and I had lots of fun with the scouts and scouters, so why not?

Bear12, Congratulations to you and your Eagle son; you must be very proud of him.

Our favorite winter campout is more of a weekend lock-in at the Army National Guard armory in Angola, Indiana, not far from Fort Wayne. Each February, the Guard let's us use their facilities for the weekend including their indoor basketball court, showers, and full-service kitchen. For outside fun, on Saturday morning, we head over to Pokagon State Park where they have a dual-track, quarter mile toboggan run. Four scouts each get on two toboggans and race each other down the track. We take pictures of each team as they race down the hill. At the end of the run, the scouts pick up their toboggans and haul them back to the starting point for the next race. The races continue for several hours until the guys get too tired to carry the toboggans at which point we break for lunch. After everyone has had some chow, warmed up, and rested up, we head over to the adjoining sled-riding hills and spend the rest of the afternoon sledding down the hills in store-bought sleds and in sleds that several of the scout teams have built throughout the year. A couple years ago, an enterprising group of our Venture Patrol scouts built what they called their "death sled". They collected a couple of old abandoned grocery carts from the local grocery store, bolted them onto a 2" x 4" lumber frame, and mounted this contraption onto several old snow skis acquired from the Salvation Army store. Reminded me of an episode of the Little Rascals. They successfully raced the "death sled" down the hill several times and thought they had become quite proficient until they tried to load about 12 scouts on board all at once. When they ran it down the hill, it hit a tree, and the runners broke beyond repair. That was the last run of the "death sled". We got some great pictures from that trip, and they still talk about the "death sled" to this day. The new scouts think it's an urban troop legend, and everybody always looks forward to February every year.

Leprechaun, Here's one version of Thorns and Roses courtesy of the BSA Long Peaks Council: Thorns and Roses - an evaluation technique for bettering group relations. Introduction. While many Scout Troops/Venture Groups either attend National High Adventure Bases, or conduct their own long-term adventures (6 nights or more), and almost all scouts have a fantastic time on the trips, once in a while a dark cloud can occur to spoil the trip for one or more of the participants. The dark cloud is typically a personality problem or clash between two or more scouts and/or scout and leader. If there is potential for this to happen, we must have "bomb-proof" techniques for prevention. A cure on the trail is much harder than the prevention. Philmont Scout Ranch has about 20 to 25 crews arriving and departing daily all Summer long to spend 10 nights in the beautiful New Mexico mountain backcountry. Over the years they have experimented with training and programs to help the adult advisors insure that the crews will have a super time, become a smoothly functioning crew, and everyone go home happy and enriched. All troops must have the same goals for their adventure program. The "Thorns" are the bad experiences that happen daily, and the "Roses" are the good experiences. The Thorns & Roses evaluation procedure was taught to each crew at Philmont in 1998. The Process. The best way for a crew to become a friendly, help-each-other, team is for everyone to learn about each other. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, and these will become evident and exposed through open discussions and communications on a regular basis during the trip. The Philmont Trail Crew Guide Book states: "The Thorns and Roses program is an excellent way to have each person learn about the others. Each evening or night after dinner and before everyone retires for the night, make sure the entire crew debriefs the days events. During the session it is important to always end the day positively. If there are any problems within the group this is an opportunity to bring them out at this time. Make it known from the start that this time is neutral time. Be creative; ask thought-provoking questions, this is the time when questions about anything can be answered. It is essential that everyone work out his problems here. Otherwise tensions may emerge the next day on the trail. Make this serious and take this time serious from the start. Encourage meaningful dialog. Keep in mind that your crew consists of several different personalities. We want everyone to learn and grow. At times it may be hard getting people to talk at all. Be tactful; lead your discussions if you need to at first. Never belittle anyone or everyone." Practical Details. The entire group should sit in a circle facing each other, with no one in the background. Adult advisors should spread out in the circle, and not bunch together. This will be each person's opportunity to vent their frustrations, and they will be allowed to speak freely and uninterrupted. The emphasis should be to balance any bad with some good. After each person presents his "thorn" (if any) and "rose", he may also present a "rose bud". The "bud" is a goal, thought, or desire of the individual of something that he would like to accomplish. It could be for the next day, anytime during the trip, or long term, and one that he feels like sharing with the others. Examples could be to catch his first trout on his new pole tomorrow, or earn Star by the next Court of Honor, etc. One of the leaders (boy crew leader or adult) starts the Thorns and Roses discussion, and each person gets a chance as the turn passes around the circle. This is not a gripe session, and you only go around the circle once. The Philmont Chaplain said you always close on a positive note and may follow this session with a SM minute or spiritual thought. It seems that sometimes there might have to be a short group interaction/plan after the once around thoughts, (or even following an individual's contribution) in order to be sure the "air" is cleared, and the discussion is indeed positive. Our crew of Boulder and SW Florida scouts used this almost every night at Philmont (August '98) with our diverse crew of individuals who barely knew one another at the start of the trip. We had a great time, and no real problems. I suspect we could have had some problems if we had not had the open discussions daily. The Challenge. Having been on adventures with middle school and high school scouts for over 30 years, I have seen first hand or heard from other crew advisors three specific types of problems that develop on one week to two week trips. They are: --The others single out an individual youth as a "goat" of the crew. --Two separate "clicks" or factions develop in the crew, which splits the team. --An advisor tries to assume the role of a dictatorial leader and takes the boy leader's job. Your job as a Trained Scout Leader is to prevent any of these problems from developing. An ounce of prevention is worth more than pound of cure. Here are my suggestions for building a great team: 1. Use Thorns and Roses daily. (It may be advisable for the adults to meet separately before the crew gets together to air their thoughts to each other privately.) 2. Avoid a one-boy tent, and never have more than 3 scouts per tent. Two scouts are ideal. Rotate boy tent partners daily. Have them work out a rotation in which each scout is with every other scout. Let them sleep with their buddy the first night. Normally sleep adults together (and separate from scouts, even parent-son). 3. Involve the group in other discussions, perhaps before the Thorns & Roses, such as- --Why are you here, really? --What have you learned so far? --Who wants to go to college & why? (What's the real purpose of higher education?) --Who wants to be an Eagle Scout and why? --What really is an Eagle Scout? --What is a team? Define: coach, captain, & player's jobs. --What is a leader, explain? --Is your only limit your imagination? --What's all the fuss about organic food, additives, & nutritional supplements? (Are we what we eat? Junk food = ?) --Who are you, and why are you here on earth? --Etc and many more. 4. Train the scouts in skills, and leadership, then back off and let them do it! 5. Remember that adventure trips are not another Summer Camp "school", they are for FUN! Dave Wortendyke, ASM Troop 78, Boulder, CO Longs Peak Council, BSA

Welcome, deels! Thanks for sticking it out in scouting when others don't. You'll find a lot of help here on this forum. All you have to do is ask. Oftntimes, you don't even have to ask; many of us will give you our advice whether you want it or not .

Hi Mike, Welcome back to scouting. Many of us here get a lot of personal enjoyment and fulfillment out of scouting. Even after our sons make Eagle, age out, or otherwise leave scouting, many of us stay on to help out where we can--not to mention all the interesting individuals we meet through these discussions. Hope you have fun here!

Welcome, young Eagle1991. I'm an ASM from the Miami Valley Council in Dayton, Ohio. Lots of great scouters on this forum with a wealth of experience and no shortage of opinions, so stick around and meet them.

Happy New Year, gang! It snowed here again last night in southern Ohio, so I guess it's time to think seriously about some winter camping! I think we have a ski trip scheduled for January and a sled-building and racing competition slated for February in northeastern Indiana .

Thanks, Eamonn. Happy New Year, and hope yours is even better than 2007.

Hello, tree. Welcome to this forum. The only restriction I'm aware of is that a Scoutmaster or Assistant Scoutmaster should not conduct a scout's Board of Review. As you know, that is reserved mainly for troop committee members and sometimes others. I've not seen or heard of any restriction about an Assistant Scoutmaster conducting a Scoutmaster's Conference on behalf of the Scoutmaster. In fact, in this particular case, I believe the Eagle candidate is very wise to ask you this favor to avoid a perceived conflict of interest situation. Carry on, and best wishes to you, your troop, and your Eagle candidate .

sassafras, Sounds like your cubs had a wonderful time on the Dan Beard trail yesterday, and you couldn't have picked a more beautiful day for a hike! If they were experienced hikers, I would expect the scouts to finish the entire hike before awarding the patch, but, in my opinion, it sounds like everyone did their best, so these cubs and their leaders deserve the patch to commemorate their first "high adventure" activity. Very cool indeed .

Well, it looks like BW and GW have hit new lows!

Bonjour, Florian, and welcome! I will look into scoutwiki.org as soon as possible. I believe the majority of users on this site are American, but I know that there are several Scouters here from Australia, also. There is no need to excuse your English; your English is much better than my French .

Well, everybody has an opinion. WV, let us know what you decide.

My humble recommendation is to wait until your son is ready for a Philmont trek and go with him as an adult advisor. You won't regret it. Take your wife, too, if she's game and registered with your troop. You can always go to Philmont Training Center when you're too old or feeble to hike the backcountry--which may not be until you're past 70+ or 80+ years old .

I'm with you, Brent and Barry. My mom told me that if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. So I'll just say Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

mmmmontano, Any other troops in your area that would be willing to register your son and help him complete a reasonable Eagle service project?

Fifty year rule, huh? I guess that makes me an historical artifact. Wonder if I'm also a protected site?

Our guys go a full 10 seconds. Somehow, they're convinced that germs can't move that fast.