Oak Tree

"Does she have her uniform shirt tucked in?" Yes, but it is not buttoned as shown in the Uniform and Insignia Guide. Oak Tree

Summer camps should definitely have good policies for dealing with these forms. But what about packs and troops? How are the volunteer leaders in these groups supposed to know what they can and can't do with the forms? They pretty much have to be kept at someone's house (unless the CO has a place to keep them). Who should have access? I agree that it would be nice if National had some policies on this, but barring that, it's up to each group to use their own judgement. And maybe that's ok...privacy can be elusive as well as life-threatening, if you go with the previous posts. Oak Tree

It's been a little while since I took BALOO, but we didn't see any video. I think your other suggestions for references are fine. As for approved camping areas for pack camping, I'm not aware that our council has any policy. We generally fax the tour permit form in, and never hear any response. Sometimes we go to the Council office in person and they seem to approve whatever we give them. But they've (at least tacitly) approved of National Parks, State Parks, National Forests, a battleship, County Parks, and City Parks. And my guess would be, they'd approve of any place we'd actually want to camp. Oak Tree

I'm with Hunt. I think there can be a lot of variation in troop practices, and it can be a good idea to document those. I can think of many more examples which wouldn't involve any change to national policy. Flexibility in program delivery is a good thing - troops with lots of bylaws, probably not so good. Oak Tree

FScouter, I'm looking at the fourth printing of the eleventh edition. I didn't type it wrong, it doesn't have the word 'most'. It just says the Scout "who has earned the Arrow of Light has completed the Boy Scout joining requirements." So yes, I guess that would mean they did earn it as Cub Scouts. I've seen the badge presented to the boys when they reach the far side of the bridge. I think your approach would be just fine, and you could certainly do what you want, but I'm curious if you would tell boys you're ignoring those two sentences in the book? I guess you could hang your hat on the "With the approval of his Scoutmaster" phrase, but it's not clear under what circumstances the Scoutmaster would be justified in not approving - it clearly states the boy has completed the requirements. National would make this type of discussion easier if all of their reference material were on-line. Oak Tree

While you might think that the Arrow of Light does not equal the Scout badge, and the requirements are not identical, nevertheless, the Arrow of Light does automatically confer the Scout badge, at least according to my son's Boy Scout Handbook. "A graduating Webelos Scout who has earned the Arrow of Light Award has completed the Boy Scout joining requirements. With the approval of his Scoutmaster, he will receive the Boy Scout badge upon joining the troop." Oak Tree

I would stay and continue. I don't really think this change would alter the ongoing activities all that much. Oak Tree

Dual signatures sound like a great safeguard as a knee-jerk reaction, but I'm curious. How does it actually help prevent problems? If someone wanted to steal from the account, couldn't they just forge the second name? Does anyone think that the bank actually checks signatures? I'm looking at the Committee Guidebook, and among the Treasurer duties are "Maintain checking and savings accounts". Chapter 6 says "An account that requires two signatures on each check, those of the committee treasurer and Scoutmaster, is recommended." We just have the treasurer show us the report each month of all income and outgo, and looking at the bank statement can confirm it. The hassle of getting two signatures on every check would outweigh whatever security benefit there would be, at least for us (not clear that there'd be any benefit). Oak Tree(This message has been edited by Oak Tree)

What the rules say is "Attend Cub Scout day camp or Cub Scout/Webelos Scout resident camp." There is no minimum number of days listed. But...our Council happens to hold summer events with those exact specific titles, where the day camp is a five day affair. Other things are called other names, like "Cub-o-ree", or "Cub-Adult Overnighter". If I were the Supreme Court, I'd look to the original intent of the authors, and maybe they'd say something definitive. It would be nice if National gave more explicit instructions. As far as I'm concerned, the intent of the award is clearly to recognize and encourage summer camp. But if some council runs a Saturday morning hike and calls it "Day Camp", I guess they could hand out the Outdoor Activity Award. Feel free to interpret as you wish. Oak Tree

I see no witch hunt here. I do see Bob White telling everyone to stop the witch hunt (effectively criticizing other posters), but whining when other people criticize his posts. Kind of makes one long for the days when Bob was on hiatus. Ah well, what can we do? Why do so many threads that Bob posts on end up being about Bob? I'm sure it has nothing to do with Bob - it's everyone else. Although I've heard it said that if you're on your seventh divorce, you might consider that it's not your wife's fault. I generally want to thank so many of the people here who post thoughtful musings on a very difficult situation. While no one here seems to think the BSA is responsible in this case, it certainly doesn't make for good publicity. Oak Tree

I agree with NJCubScouter. If he was active for six months after turning 10, then he's met the requirement, and you can show the requirement to your own son if he has any complaint. Oak Tree

It looks like the Scouts have already dealt with him, to the extent possible. "The statement said Smith was placed on paid administrative leave immediately after the organization learned that he was being investigated for a crime, and that Smith decided to retire shortly thereafter." BadenP, what type of screening do you think would have caught this? It is a very sad situation for all involved, but people who are sexually attracted to children learn to hide this pretty well. Oak Tree

Torveaux, Ok, I'll grant you that there could be Day Camp during the winter in Florida. Still, I'd think that the award, clearly designed to promote summer camp, could have picked a better time than September 1st to come into effect. But such is life. It seems like so many changes that National introduces just seem to be randomly spaced out with no coordination. For example, I scanned the Insignia Guide for 2005 (not real thoroughly, admittedly) and I didn't see the Outdoor Activity Award there, which is where I'd look for the answer to your other question. I asked that very question at Pow Wow, but they didn't know. So I'm saying, follow the instructions that we have, and wear the Summertime Award on top of the Outdoor Activity Award. They both go on the right pocket flap. Oak Tree

Even if he can only be legitimately registered in one program or the other, I'd doubt that his current den leader is going to kick him out because he went and registered with the troop. I'd think he could certainly continue to attend the Webelos den meetings if he really wanted to. But normally it would seem like a better plan for him to stick with his buddies in Cub Scouts and have them all cross over and start in Boy Scouts together. Although, as with many things, it depends... Oak Tree

The award pretty explicitly states it is for Day Camp or Resident Camp, which are fairly specific types of events. Either the 5-day Day Camp, or the 4-day Resident Camp, in our Council. Webelos II's would definitely not be eligible (in fact, many are crossing over to Boy Scouts even as we post on the forum). We have a Cub-Adult Overnighter during the summer, but that's not going to count. The intent of the award is clearly to get more people to go to summer camp. All of the other requirements are things you'd probably be doing anyway. I do find it surprising that National announced the award so many months before anyone would be eligible to earn it. I guess you might argue that Wolves, who have worked on the requirements, would want to finish it up by going to Day Camp. But I'm going to treat it the way Torveaux suggests, and say that people can start working on this award once they cross over to the next rank. Oak Tree

I agree it's good to have multiple people BALOO trained. But really, if only one BALOO trained leader was on a trip, and the control freak decided to leave, I don't think I'd be leaving. Common sense wouldn't suggest ruining the trip for the kids just because of an adult's actions. And fgoodwin, I'm intrigued by your post. I'd never seen an interpretation of Pack overnighter that suggested only one night was allowed. I guess I can see how it could be read that way, but every pack I know does two-night overnighters. I was assuming that the BALOO syllabus was just showing you one example. You'd think if packs were only allowed to camp for one night, it would pretty explicitly say so somewhere, wouldn't you? Oak Tree

I've seen this debated on the Boy Scout forums more often, where we hear that 'active' means having paid up. That seems like an obvious abuse of the English language, and besides that, it doesn't even apply here. The Webelos book does define active a bit more. "'Active' means having good attendance, ..." Now, you can define on your own what 'good attendance' is - the book doesn't give a percentage of 50% or anything like that. But it's hard to see how 0% could be considered good attendance. I'd say the absolute minimum to be considered active in a given month would be to attend at least one activity that month. But maybe that's just me. Councils do play fast and loose with the Cub Scout age cutoffs. We're encouraged to recruit Tigers while they're still in kintergarten. We go to Camporees in April and are told the boys can work on items from their next rank up. So you're right, you could let him work on things through the summer. I've never run into any Cub Scout Police, so it's going to come down to your judgement. If you could get six months in, sure, it would be possible to count it. But really, does this boy want to stick around in Webelos for six months when he could be in Boy Scouts? And as you say, do you really want your son to see you maneuvering around the rules? Oak Tree

Cajuncody, I'm with anarchist. There are many types of power. One is the official positional power that attaches to the office of Cubmaster, which would not provide the ability to do what you're suggesting. But as the newly appointed Cubmaster, with the respect, presumably, of the other parents in the pack, you have a great deal of power. The old CM didn't have the official authority to do what he did to run the pack into the ground, either. If he could use such "non-existent" power to hurt a pack, you should also be able to use it to build up the pack. Take anarchist's advice, get things straightened out on paper, too, which can only help things. Oak Tree

It seems like you probably already know the answer to your question. You want to give the boy the Arrow of Light even though there's one requirement that he's not able to complete. It would seem to be up to your conscience to decide whether you give him the award or not, but there wouldn't appear to be any technicality where you can claim he's met the requirement. Lone Scouts are registered as such. According to scouting.org, "Lone Cub Scouts and Lone Boy Scouts may advance in rank in the same manner as do Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts in packs and troops. The only difference is that references to packs, dens, troops, and patrols do not apply." So they are specifically exempted. Even if you met over the summer, you wouldn't hit six months until September, when the boy would be into sixth grade. Maybe the boy should just join Boy Scouts and get a fresh start there. Oak Tree

I'd go with the end-of-grade answer. But I think packs can take some leeway with this, depending on individual circumstances. Our pack does set a date, but we would work with anyone who wanted a little bit of extra time. It's never come up. Most people finish early, and anyone who is deadline-driven manages to get done by the date (which roughly maps to the end of the school year). With boys in year-round schools, home schools, magnet schools, charter schools, private schools, and so on, not everyone officially finishes at the same time. But the pack sets a date that applies to everyone in the pack. Oak Tree

At the last Eagle Court of Honor I attended, several people made the claim that only a small percentage, about 3% or 4%, of Scouts earn Eagle. But I see from the annual report that there are less than 1 million Scouts, and over 50,000 Eagles in 2004, so that means that 5% of the Scouts earned the award **in this one year**. But of those million Scouts, surely there will be more Eagles next year, and more the year after that. Without knowing how many of these Scouts are new each year, I don't have enough information to know what the actual percentage is. But if the average boy is registered for only two years, that would still mean that over 10% of Scouts earn Eagle. If the average boy is registered for three years, with 333,333 new Scouts each year, that would mean that 15% (50,000/333,333) of boys earn Eagle. So I ask you this, what percentage of Scouts do you think earn Eagle? Does National report this? And why do so many people believe the number is smaller? Oak Tree

Definitely reasonable. Our pack committee reviews the checking account each month, and the current amount in the account is included in the monthly minutes. Hard to imagine any good reason why you wouldn't want people to know. Oak Tree

I consider this to be a complete disaster by whoever wrote up the new requirements. Our Webelos don't want a second belt loop and it generally makes no sense for them to earn one. Our pack doesn't provide them - the leaders just sign off on the requirement as part of the requirement for the pin. At least that's the general rule. Oak Tree

a written translation. Watch him carry on a conversation. Even if you can't understand it, you can pretty clearly tell if it's real. There's nothing special about this award that would mean it has to be treated differently than others. Oak Tree

I would do the same thing for this award as for any other Cub Scout award. Normally we take the parent's word that the Scout has completed the requirements. But you could also work directly with the Cub. Have him translate a conversation between you and a native speaker (the Cub's parent?) Have him show you a wri