Oak Tree

If Berkeley was a private organization, they'd be free to give their money to anyone they wanted to, and I wouldn't complain. But because they are the government, they should not favor one group over another because of that group's exercising of its constitutional rights. What if Berkeley decided that they would give free berths only to organizations that had entirely Democratic membership? Would that be a valid position for a government to take? You are free to be a Republican, but it will cost you $6000. Or maybe instead of berths, a state could do it for drivers' licenses. If you won't follow our policy that everyone would be better off being a Democrat, then we don't need to give you a free license. The going rate is $10,000 per year to help take care of our roads. To modify Prairie Scouter's quote to match the scenario: "Seems like a pretty cut and dry issue. The state says you can have a free driver's license if you comply with their political registration rules. Otherwise, you just pay the going rate like everyone else. They didn't say you couldn't have a driver's license. The state is not impinging on your rights in any way, shape, or form." But I do like Eamonn's take on it - make the most of the backlash. Oak Tree P.S. Trying to make my argument respectfully - hope I'm succeeding.

Our district does Eagle boards of review once a month. But our troop does boards of review on demand. We pretty much have three committee members available every troop meeting - if not hanging around the back room, at least they check in when they drop their son off. But I have known troops where the committee were church members who didn't have boys in the troop, and the two or three dads who were involved were the Scoutmaster and assistants. In that case, it does seem hard to imagine them doing BoRs on demand, but it would certainly seem like they could do it once a month at worst. ScoutNut's quote would indicate that while not ideal, it's certainly permissible to have them quarterly, so I wouldn't try to go throw policy at the committee. I'd just ask them if they realize what effect the delay has on the boy's enthusiasm for the program. And Beavah, as far as being armchair kibitzers, isn't that pretty much the definition of a forum participant? Oak Tree

I don't think we need to know the council, city, time, or unit. We're not a court here. But dealing with it as it's been presented, I see two issues here. First, was the revocation justified? Second, can you get your beads? It seems to me that the first issue is much, much larger than the second. I mean, heck, you're not even allowed to wear the uniform now. So let's say you manage to convince the guys to go behind the back of the new SE and get your beads. What good does that really do you? If it's that meaningful to you, go ahead and have a private beading ceremony. There's no way it's going to be an authorized ceremony unless you get reinstated first. But the real issue is, should you be a member? I'd pursue that first. And second. And third. From your description, things certainly sound unfair. But without knowing what the alleged impropriety was, it's hard for us to know. But it's hard for me to imagine our council kicking anyone out for a fund-raising violation, barring a willful, repeated, or egregious violation. Oak Tree

Lisa'bob, If you find yourself wondering now, you should go back and read some of the old threads from a couple years ago, when it seemed like every thread would end up in some type of bickering. I find the current group of posters greatly improved. Not perfect, as you point out, but a huge step in the right direction. There were posters getting suspended, and a number of people took to squelching certain other posters so that they wouldn't have to read their responses. But yes, I do think that we should show each other great respect on these forums. I try to assume that I'm talking to the other person the way I would face-to-face, and as you say, to assume that they have good intentions. To answer one of the questions in the original post - what is the best way to be respected? I only sort-of agree with the answer that it's to show respect. Maybe if you mean, the best way to get people to be polite to you is to be polite to them. But the people I really respect are the ones who are polite and who also know what they're talking about. When the new Scouts show up, which older Scout gets respected? The quiet shy boy who's always polite, but isn't very good at Scouting and doesn't teach them much? Or the one who knows his stuff and jumps in to teach the new boys what he can? So I'd say that showing respect is a necessary, but not sufficient, way to get respect. Oak Tree P.S. I'll also say that this discussion could get confused over different meanings of the word 'respect'. When you talk about it, think about which definition you mean: 1. courteous regard for people's feelings or 2. an attitude of admiration or esteem

I'm a little bit uncomfortable with the idea of the government using its money to compel speech. Consider a more extreme version of this. What if the federal government said that you could get a 50% discount on your income taxes by signing some statement? (pick your own controversial statement). I'd think the Supreme Court would not permit that on the grounds that it violates freedom of speech. Technically you still have the freedom, you just have to pay a lot if you exercise it. For the case of the U.S. Military v. the law schools, I'd say the comparison would be closer if the federal government threatened to without funding from any school that wouldn't sign a statement that they support the military's position. As it is, the government explicitly allows the schools to oppose the government's position, but still take the government's money. That's what the Scouts want to do - oppose the position (that all non-profits should accept atheists), but still get the benefit. Oak Tree

Dan, I'd say that all of the knots are awards. I'm looking at the 2003-2005 Insignia Guide, and it lists 31 knots. Of those, 26 have the word 'Award' in their name. The other five all appear to be awards, too - Honor Medal, Medal of Merit, Scouter's Key, Seabadge, and Religious emblem square knot. All of them have to be earned. Captainron, we also use the knot by itself to represent one award. But you'd be allowed to wear one device on it if you want to. We normally present two devices to a boy when he earns his second award, but that's just because we normally don't present devices upon the first knot, more for our simplicity than anything else. Oak Tree

We tell our Cub Scouts that there are two awards they can carry over - the religious knot and the AoL. Technically, there would seem to be more than that. The James E West knot should carry over. So would any of the heroism knots. And the interpreter strips should also, I believe. And as far as not considering the religious knot a BSA award, that doesn't make any sense to me. The medal may be presented by the religious organization, but the knot is presented by the BSA. And it definitely seems like an award. Oak Tree

There are 43 states that allow the line item veto. They seem to do a generally better job of keeping funding under control than does the federal government. While there would be side effects, I think the primary effect would be to reduce the pork, and to force some attention on individual line items that a great majority would view as unwise spending. Oak Tree

Eamonn, I think you definitely did the right thing. Honesty gains trust and respect. The only other solution I'd agree with would be not to answer the question. In this particular case, I don't see how much harm could come from it (barring some parent who's a little bit uptight about such things), but I can imagine other questions where you'd really rather not answer. Oak Tree

I agree - separate events. Oak Tree

One of the required items for the Quality Unit patch is that you recharter on time. It would seem like a normal interpretation of the year on the patch would be that you have completed the requirements in that year. We recharter in March, so that's when we earn the patch. Now, if we rechartered in November, I might rethink the intended meaning, and say that being a 2006 Quality Unit meant that we were in compliance at the beginning of 2006, having rechartered on time in late 2005 when it was due. I find the wording on the Quality Unit form extremely poorly worded, for Cub Scouts, anyway. Especially the way it's all phrased in the future tense, saying what we will do. Shouldn't it be based on what we have done? Either ask your district commissioner, or interpret the requirements however you'd like. As you say, the patches are for sale, so it would up to your leadership to decide whether and when you qualify for them and want to buy them. Oak Tree

The above quoted policy does not really clarify the issue. The problem, of course, is that this is also in bold print: Male and female youth participants will not share the same sleeping facility. A literal reading of this requirement would suggest that brothers and sisters cannot share the same tent, regardless of whether they're with their parents. You could have one tent for father and son, and another tent for mother and daughter. Or father and daughter, and mother and son. Or mother and daughter, and son by himself. Or whatever. This is just another reason why I think that you have to use your judgement in interpreting how to apply the G2SS. I do not believe it means to apply to brother and sister, and I would never apply it that way. Oak Tree

An interesting follow-on question would be whether the numbers will eventually stabilize, once the chartering organizations are reduced to the set that are in alignment with the positions of the BSA. At least, that's one possible future. Also, it seems a little bit hard to tell if it's all public school related, or if some of the drop is due to increased attention to accuracy of the numbers, given some of the scandals. Do you have any data that helps sort that out? Oak Tree

My3sons, Lisa'bob's advice is good. Let me ask you, did you ever see anything like this before? You say you were on every trip that your son went on up until he was 16. That sounds like a lot of trips. I certainly wouldn't let one report like this drive you away from the troop. You're the Cubmaster and you have a lot of reasons to want the troop to be successful. What does your son think? He's 17. I'm sure it's possible for him to handle the idea that some adults play poker. Does he want to quit the troop over this? When you say you "never let your son go camping without 1 of us", it sounds like you're trying hard to protect your son, maybe even sounding a little overprotective. See what he thinks about it. But I'd certainly also try a couple private, calm conversations with the troop leaders to see what the story is. Oak Tree

We allow siblings to sleep in the same tent with their parents. Our pack would have many families that would object strongly to the lack of common sense in not allowing an entire family to be in a tent. Heck, there's another line in the G2SS that says "One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted." Does your committee say that a parent can't be alone with their own son? No parental exception is noted in the wording. If they do allow parents to be alone with their son, then they must realize that there is a family exception to the wording as written. Oak Tree

I agree that it would be good to use common sense. The book uses the word 'active', not 'registered'. So there's a difference. I say it's up to the unit to decide what active means. Common sense would say that 'active' does have some meaning, and it's only fair to the boys to tell them ahead of time how you interpret the meaning. The Webelos book says "Active means having good attendance, paying den dues, working on den projects." I find it hard to accept that the requirements are less once they move on to Boy Scouts. I think you should set it wherever you want to, but I would advocate for not having the bar too high, and I do like doing it on an individual basis. Oak Tree

I like it. I'd vote to approve it. Historical markers are frequently put up by the government to recognize all types of things, and this seems very much in line. Does the cemetary want it? If so, it would benefit the cemetary primarily (which I'm sure is not owned by the Scouts), and also the community in general. Oak Tree

LongHaul, I believe that KC9DDI is referring to wearing the merit badges either on the sash OR on the sleeve of the long sleeved shirt (up to 6). I've never seen a boy actually do that, but it's clearly legal. Oak Tree

I agree with Lisa'bob - it's a pack event around here. Boys from a pack can cross into multiple troops. But it's one pack that runs the pack meeting. It's not a troop meeting, where boys from multiple packs can join. At least not the way we do it. The troops are our invited guests. The pack sets the agenda, and controls the ceremony up to the point where the boys cross the bridge. But we do plan all of this in conjunction with the primary receiving troop. It sounds like your situation is different. But it certainly looks like it would work better if the pack were in charge from the beginning and added troops as necessary. Oak Tree

I can't quite let the comment about Mountain Dew pass. A 12-ounce Mountain Dew has less caffiene than an 8-ounce cup of coffee. See http://wilstar.com/caffeine.htm, or search for other sites to confirm that as well. But I do agree it's enough caffiene to have significant effects. And at the same time, there are drink machines all over our summer camp. I do not believe there is any such policy. Oak Tree

So this is just a theoretical question for me, but at my last training event I did see some people for whom it was apparently a real question. The World Crest is supposed to be centered vertically between the top of the pocket and the shoulder seam. On my XXL shirt, this leaves about 4" below the crest. Service start take up about an inch (3/8" gap, 5/8" star backing). That leaves room for four rows of knots, if the stars touch the World Crest. Or to look neater, or on any smaller shirt, presumably you'd be limited to three rows of knots. So what do people do when they get their tenth knot? Do they 1) take the uniform regulations as a sign from BSA that they should only wear their favorite nine knots? 2) stop wearing service stars? 3) move the World Crest up into a technically incorrect position? Those seem like the only reasonably correct alternatives. I saw a regional Scouter wearing his stars above the World Crest, but this looks glaringly wrong. I guess you could technically stick the stars right into the World Crest, but I can't imagine anyone advocating that as a solution. What have you seen other people do? Which solution would you recommend? If you have 10 knots, which do you do? Oak Tree

I've never seen such a patch, but it should clearly be "Scoutmaster Emeritus". It even looks like there's a perfect space for the word Emeritus on the bottom of the Scoutmaster patch, the place where the word "Chairman" goes on the Troop Committee Chairman patch. But I don't have a good suggestion on how to get one. People must have machines that can do this type of thing. Oak Tree

Boring enough, but we use yahoogroups as well. We've tried to get our dens to use them too, but most dens just send their email directly and don't bother with the group. But it works pretty well at the pack level. Oak Tree

I have nothing against someone visiting early and often, but I wouldn't do it myself. It just seems like it would be a time-consuming set of activities, and really, beyond about three troops, I'm not sure how much more effective things will be. And it seems like two years of "waiting to be a Boy Scout" is a long time. But we have a pack/troop partnership, so most of our boys don't look around much anyway. Your situation could be vastly different. Oak Tree

I too have experienced the case of the Scouters who view cubs as merely a prelude to Boy Scouts. I don't really like the attitude. I'd say that the Cub Scout program should stand on its own. If you focus on purposes 1-9, then #10 should just happen automatically. All of our boys cross over to Boy Scouts every year, and they're very well prepared, but I'd be just as happy if purpose #10 wasn't even listed. When I'm running a good cub program, I'm not going to focus on what the boys will be doing later - I'll be focused on what they're doing now. Oak Tree